Maybe you can set me straight on my commie hippie pinko fag america hating suspicions.

Oh I got one (and plenty more)
90% of the worlds opium (heroin) grows in this one place that we need to be to save our freedom? US marines guard the poppy feilds, and hamid karzais brother (a known opium traffiker) has been on the CIA's payroll for about a decade.
but its not like the CIA sells drugs or anything right?
what a loon I must be.

And speaking of the CIA, perhaps you can explain to me how these operations were necessary for 'national security'?
the gehlen org
operation gladio
MK ultra
the U-2 incident
bay of pigs
operation northwoods
operation CHAOS
pan am flight 103

oh and can you tell me why we need to, for our protection, depose governmants, assassinate democratically elected leaders, around the world? like:
iran
guatemala
zaire
dominican republic
indonesia
greece
chile
laos
cambodia
vietnam
angola
libya
grenada
el salvador
nicaragua
afghanistan
panama
iraq
haiti
south pacfic
yugoslavia

If you have ANY questions or doubts about any nations included I would be more than happy to elaborate at some length about why I included them.
and shit, those are just the ones of the top of my head

You're mistaken to think that Obama would risk his future and the prestige of the United States like that. Clinton was impeached for perjury relating to a blowjob, just imagine what would happen if it came out bin Laden wasn't really killed.

Just use your head. Life's too short to try convincing you.

Ah, but if it came out he just waited to tell us about it, I doubt anything would happen.

Shut up.

Wow! What a retort! "Shut up." Ooooohhhhhhh. What do I say to that? Such a clear and concise argument...

The US is a large entity, and though Obama is the head of state he is certainly not directly involved in all US activities. whether or not he would "risk his future and the prestige of the United States" isnt really important in determining whether or not US officials are being truthful.

"Such a clear and concise argument.."

And yet - effective and appropriate.

Draug was mocking "Shut up" as an argument because it is *NOT* in fact an argument. Putin, on the other hand, actually thinks it is an argument. (Putin's Motto: "No rational Thought Exists Here")

Appropriate? Arguably... Effective? Not at all or I wouldn't have made the response. In fact, by my making the response, I proved it *wasn't* effective. Gee, for an academia intellectual, you sure fail in the logic department.

Actually krellin, it is. Just read between the lines and it makes sense.

It is an argument. It is not, however, a valid argument: well thought out and making a legitimate point towards the topic at hand. Instead , it is an attempt to avoid the topic at hand because he has no real argument against my statement.

No, it's not. And if you actually read what Draug wrote before -- that is bin Laden was dead before and they just waited to tell us until now that nobody would say anything/care....that is actually a valid conspiracy that I have already seen in multiple places on the web, and in fact was even suggested in guild chat in a game last night. So....shut up is *hardly* a valid argument...unless you are lame/stupid and unwilling or unable to come up with some sort of valid reply.

I mean dont get me wrong, I'm glad you've got this dear leader thing going on for obama, to the point where you actually personally trust his word, but obama is just a face to a very large organization, which has in the past lied about every topic imaginable. And it is an organization that has done very horrible things, like giving people sysphillis, mind control experiments, military coups, drug traffiking, assassinating everyone from foreign leaders to US dissidents, war profiteering, etc.

I mean, god dammit. It's just so obvious that the US has absolutly no qualms about murder and lying.

Honestly, like, Am I just missing something? Am I the stupid one? If theres some reason to restore my faith in government that I've just blindly, totally missed... please explain it to me. no hidden digs or facetious passive-aggression. I'm earnestly trying to understand this, not bait into some sort of flame war.

1) Krellin, thank you for turning an interesting discussion into a troll-riddled unreadable thread.

2) Draug, as someone who has a reputation for violating peoples privacy and making wildly slanderous remarks, perhaps you should refrain from such actions as "jokes."

Sic - I consider myself to be patriotic. I think this is the greatest country in the history of the world that has done more for good at the cost of our own lives for the benefit of others than any nation ever. (re: spilling our blood to help freeing Europe *twice*...and then pumping a hell of a lot of our own treasury into rebuilding those nations and then **handing them back** instead of keeping them...) So I love this country....but I also live by this motto:

I love my country, but I *fear* my government.

I understand your concern. We are a good country, but we are far from perfect. We are ruled by men...that is enough, all you need to know, to realize that sometimes wicked things happen at the top. I understand you, but I also think that you focus *so* completely on the ill we have done that you are incapable of acknowledging the good. I'm sure that as a child you did things that made your parents angry; none the less, they loved you, and tried to encourage you to do better in the future. A nation is no different. The people, the electorate, need to pay attention, and when leaders do wrong, you punish them (not vote for them) and replace them with those you believe will do better. It really *can* be that simple....except that the modern electorate is desperately ill-informed...

@abge - "interesting discussion" is a relative term at best. That was your opinion. After 3 or 4 pages I believe it had long sense lost any interesting aspects, and was devolving into the same sort of back and forth that all these threads devolved into....Lighten up. Besides, the proof is right before your eyes, friend: The discussion seems to have continued...thus it *IS* interesting to some. Not you, apparently, but such is the life of a thread. I won't apologize.

@abge - I mean, come on...the very idea of debating whether or not bin Laden's death is a good or a bad thing. Please....it's a dead topic before it even began to all but a few nutjobs...thus it had to, by necessity, turn into something else. All threads do.

So let me get this straight.

Osama was dead

Obama knew about it for years but waited for the perfect political moment to release it

He chose a year and a half away from election day

Makes sense.

As Invictus said...

Shut Up.


"except that the modern electorate is desperately ill-informed... "

I'm glad you are open to such introspection.

@Santa - see, when I answer someone's question thoughtfully, you asshole just attack and insult anyway. THAT is why I come on these forums and just say shit to fuck with people and act like a troll. I answered Sic's question, and the notion that the American electorate is ill-informed is not some off-the-wall comment. But, the fact that you can't reply with any intelligence to what I said MAKE YOU THE FUCKING TROLL. THAT is why I don't really give a shit about stirring shit up on these forums. You scattered, idiotic attempt to comment there was apparently some attempt to take many disconnected thoughts by various people and turn them all into an insult on me. Uh....yeah. I guess I'll just go back to purposely pissing people off, since ignoramuses like you will just go about insulting people anyway. Happy to be able to return to my fun~!

And yet the "Shut Up." retort gets repeated. Still no better an argument than before and still not making anyone actually do what you request, Santa.

And since I have the day off, I'm free to troll allllllll day. Perhaps I will.

krellin +10 - Sorry couldn't give you more than you gave me. Troll away, my friend! This should be fun.

Good lord, we really need a separate kiddie table forum for Krellin, Siccy and Draugnar.

thoughtfully... right, American foreign policy becomes a function on how high the United States is on the great leader board of history (1st place!!! I wonder what initials we left). Add in some overarching generalizations about the country and you have a typical Krellin post. I only reply to intelligent posts with thought, I have never seen you post a worthy thought, so therefore that is what you get

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/2/jeremy_scahill_on_killing_of_bin

the first guy just said exactly what I said from the start

Except for the stupid "buried at sea" question... Duh, doesn't he know what it means to be buried at sea? But I agree with his assessment overall, assuming OBL was killed last night and not some time in the past. And when I hear of the cheering and partying, I'm reminded of the end of Return of the Jedi (the rerelease with the extended galaxy wide party). Problem is, this is reality and not a movie.

unless i missed it the conspiracy theory Id be willing to entertain is the casualty figures. Your telling me a chopper goes down, no one is hurt (despite wreckage and an explosion mentioned by witnesses) and the choppers make a speedy retreat despite this 'setback." Its already known SEAL casualties are not commented on.