Oh cool you made a joke, I guess tautologies don't count as definitively true statements anymore. Phew!

You don't know anything because you clearly don't know jack shit about epistemology and are just talking out of your ass.

@c0dyz

"So leon, do you really believe that people are that wrapped up in "who killed who in the middle ages" that they would even care about that in 2017? You've got to be crazy."

You must be delusional to think that this is Islam have stopped attacking Christians. They have been at war with Christianity since the founding of Islam, and the continue to be at war with Christians today. That is the meaning of jihad: to be at war. All that has changed is that we Christians have stopped retaliating.

"Trump has communicated to the world that America is not free and America is not for everyone."

You're absolutely right about that. It's the definition of national sovereignty.

Condescension, all you have to debate my theories are more theories. That in itself is evidence of my assertion at work.

uber, what is the actionable consequence of this statement you made?

"My point is that we are always in this realm."

Does there have to be one?

The idea is that since we can never fully understand something then we can't understand anything at all, but I am not necessarily trying to draw conclusions from it.

For christs sake you don't actually believe that.
You're typing into a computer right now because you have faith that pressing the keys will produce a particular predictable response.

Thats what we call understanding, you understand that a keyboard functions.

Why the shit am I getting drawn into this again.

Yes, there does.
"Faith without works is dead."
What use is a philosophical paradigm that does not guide you to action?

"but I am not necessarily trying to draw conclusions from it."

With respect, what are you trying to do?
I'm not trying to run you out of here. In fact, I think it's awesome you are engaging in this conversation about this subject right now.
But if you believe ultimately that we can't understand anything at all, and aren't trying to draw conclusions from that belief, what is the point of this conversation or anything else?
You may think you believe all that, but you are here, in defiance of your own professed belief. Why?

Your right damian, I don't actually believe that, I just think it is a very interesting idea.

"There is no way to prove that a glass dropped off a table will fall to the floor. You can do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. But you will never have made every possible test in order to prove that EVERY time you drop the glass of the table it will fall to the floor, you can always theorize that it will fall up, no matter how many times it falls down. In other words to prove something as fact you must have all the examples, not most, but all. That is impossible. So there are no facts."

First, didn't you collect a whole bunch of facts by dropping the plate over and over again?

Second, this seems like an attempt to restart the debate over whether 0.999... = 1

Yes, there is plenty of evidence but, using science, there is no way to absolutely prove that every time you drop the glass it will fall.

Which is why science doesn't try to prove things, just collect evidence and try to explain it.

We also don't need mathematical proof to take action. We live in a probabilistic world, so if that were the case, we'd never take any action!

Let me quote myself: "I don't actually believe it."

I agree with you.

Anyway, it's bedtime for me.

I'm glad to know you don't believe it.
I don't disagree that its an interesting theoretical question to posit that all knowledge and predictably in the university is impossible. Hell it might even be true.
But it would be absurd to act like thats true.

Uber, you are an idiot who loves to talk shit about topics you know nothing about. Have some intellectual humility.

"If something cannot be definitely proven then it is not true."

Curious, is this just an opinion of yours or is this.... a fact?

I am kind of done with this thread, but let's recap a few things shall we:
1) It's great that the travel ban is legal
2) It's worthy of celebration that President Trump is keeping campaign pledges and is sticking to his guns to protect naturalized Americans and folks here with visas.
3) There are some real vile, sick, and bad racists on this website (from the extreme militant left) and for some reason they can commit forum abuse and target individual members with no mod repercussions. If you are a conservative that says the kind of stuff that some of these sickos say on this forum then, bye, your banned. It's just downright sickening.
4) Somehow this became about metaphysical topics, not my intent, and I won't engage there as I keep my religious beliefs to myself.

@"That is the meaning of jihad: to be at war. "

Just to be clear, jihad translates as struggle, not war. In Islam they talk about lesser jihad - the struggle with others to convert them, which does include war; and greater jihad - the struggle with yourself to be closer to god.

You can just take words and use them for your own meaning, like to you Jihad means 'evil wars committed by brown people who don't share my beliefs' and is totally not the same thing as wars the US military are involved in...

I mean, if you support war, and believe might makes right, then just come out and say it. Admit that you think the US should commit genocide against millions of Muslims to prove the superiority of Christianity/Capitalism.

You're putting words in my mouth. I have always been a strong advocate for peace. We should not and should never have gone to war in the Middle East. With that said, we should not just be letting invaders in either.

Invader Zim!

leon, Muslim refugees are not invaders...jesus

@orathaic

many Islamic scholars who are much more knowledgable than you would say that Jihad truly is a holy war. The interpretation is up for debate, but the holy war interpretation is not at all an invalid one.

so go ahead and make snide remarks about him thinking it's "evil wars committed by brown people who don't share my beliefs"

but that doesn't make you any more or less right


furthermore, supporting a specific war =/= "might makes right" ideology.

@JY define many, like in terms of a percentage of muslim scholars.

And i did include holy war in the definition of lesser jihad.

Second, you are correct, supporting the right of US troops to go into any foreign nation and shoot or drone people is not necessarily based on a might makes right philosophy, it may be pure tribalism; like Chimps, ganging up and killing all the neighbouring chimps. Not much better imho.

And lastly, JY do you support a travel ban which doesn't include the countries where Osama Bin Laden or the Boston Marathon bombers came from?

And what about doing something about all the white males going around murdering people? Would you support a ban on people from European countries? Or maybe just all males, i mean regardless of religion, that is the thing all these 'terrorists' have in common. Whether you drive a car into a peaceful protest in London or France or Charletsville, all the drivers were male! (And toxic masculinity is their culture!)

Also, can you distinguish between Islam and Salafi Islam / Wahhabism?

"The majority of the world's Salafis are from Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia."

Cause specifically targeting a country like Iran, which doesn't have any connection with Jihadis makes no sense, unless this policy us less about security and more about isolating countries which reject US political will, and corporate domination.

"Or maybe just all males, i mean regardless of religion, that is the thing all these 'terrorists' have in common."

I didn't think I'd see the day you advocate for a refugee ban, orathaic!

@PE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

I am sorry to discover that your desire to ban refugees from entering the country has inhibited your sense of humor.

"3) There are some real vile, sick, and bad racists on this website (from the extreme militant left) and for some reason they can commit forum abuse and target individual members with no mod repercussions. If you are a conservative that says the kind of stuff that some of these sickos say on this forum then, bye, your banned. It's just downright sickening."

I mean you are welcome to appeal to the owners if you don't think the mods are doing their job right. If you haven't then please do and stop bitching about it on the forum which doesn't accomplish anything. And if you have and disagree with the owners...well then don't let the door hit you on the way out.