Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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nudge (284 D)
03 Mar 13 UTC
The Ancient Med - not year 1
What year is the Ancient Mediterranean set? Definitely not year 1AD, by then the Med was a Roman Lake. Carthage was destroyed in 146BC, Egypt fell to Rome in 47BC, Greece had been Roman for centuries. Only Persia can claim some independence on that map.
5 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Mar 13 UTC
(+3)
HAPPY TEXAS INDEPENDENCE DAY
177 years of independence
22 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
02 Aug 12 UTC
And now for a truly original thread topic!
Last Person to Post Wins!!!!!

And we can play some Ankara Crescent while we are at it.
2400 replies
Open
`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` (1922 D)
01 Jun 10 UTC
ADVERTISE YOUR LIVE GAMES HERE
Utilize this thread by posting new live games here and only here.
49645 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
27 Feb 13 UTC
(+2)
It's my webDip Birthday!
I'm 5 years old and about to play my 100th game! I would like to invite friends, new and old, to play. To be eligible, I'd ask you make a donation to the site (of any amount). WTA 36 Hours non-anon. Express your interest below. And, of course, thanks to Kestas, the mods, and the peanut gallery for making this the best site on the Internet.
46 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
07 Nov 12 UTC
17 games, 17 players
Who's in? 17 world gunboats, one game as each nation, 50 hour phases, WTA, anon, ready-up preferred (but no means required), only prearranged pauses (example, if someone insists on a winter break pause, we will ask the mods to unpause at an agreed time if we don't unpause ourselves by then), 5 D bets for a total of 85 D buy-in. Who's in?
442 replies
Open
cteno4 (100 D)
24 Feb 13 UTC
Balancing the map
Has anyone tried seeing what would happen if Albania was made into a supply center and Serbia was turned into an ordinary neutral? I would expect stronger wars between A/I and between R/T. Thoughts, please.
15 replies
Open
DJEcc24 (246 D)
17 Jan 12 UTC
Webdiplomacy World Cup
Some of you may remember me. its been a while but i got an email saying i should put together another webdiplomacy world cup. This forum is to see if there is indeed any interest in another one happening. Keep in mind i have not been on here in a while and honestly forget how i organized this before. Ghost, could you send me the information on the rules and etc?
1914 replies
Open
Legilimens (110 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
Unpause help
We paused a game (http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=111554), and now it will not unpause, despite if anybody pushes the unpause button.

Thoughts?
4 replies
Open
yebellz (729 D(G))
10 Dec 12 UTC
The CD Takeover Challenge
Just an informal challenge
See more inside...
271 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
One Post, Two Post, I Post, You Post (Happy Birthday Dr. Seuss!)
Today's the day! March 2nd, Hooray! Doctor Seuss was born in Springfield, USA
(Not the Springfield of Simpson, Homer Jay--Same name as some OTHER poet...anyway)--
He gave us a Grinch, Green Eggs, and some Cat--Keep up this rhyming tribute and tip your Hat! :D
6 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
28 Feb 13 UTC
(+1)
Strudy: Feminism Killing Women
http://www.clickondetroit.com/lifestyle/health/Study-Modern-women-heavier-due-to-lack-of-housework/-/2300442/19125728/-/9i98ar/-/index.html
74 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
28 Feb 13 UTC
Quotes
What are some of the best quotes in literature that you've read? Create your own criteria and post away...
43 replies
Open
nudge (284 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
Declaration of Singularity
I, user nudge, declare that I have never played this game with any other account, user name or identity other than that in my user profile, and I condemn all who have done so as cheats and liars.

I invite all here to make the same declaration.
40 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Mar 13 UTC
Draws
Sifting through 10 pages of open positions, I am noticing that it's increasingly uncommon that people actually draw for a CD. In a few games, people have pushed for it, and others have seemed to have no understanding as to why they'd draw for a CD. Did this etiquette just disappear like magic? Pre-1903 CDs should *always* constitute a draw and post-1903 CDs should constitute a draw if they result in a loss of a line that would otherwise be present. When did this stop?
18 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
01 Mar 13 UTC
Dennis Rodman the Great Statesman
Is anyone else loving this Rodman to North Korea thing? Obviously its a publicity stunt, but something in me thinks perhaps Dennis Rodman is the man to bring peace across to 38th Parallel
3 replies
Open
y77 (241 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
serious LIVE-game (1h + READY button)
*** 1h/turn, but 'ready' when finished. Pause possible, players agree when to continue. Bet 25, winner-takes-all, anonymous.
*** Only serious players please - no missed moves and resigns!
*** gameID=111543
4 replies
Open
erist (228 D(B))
05 Feb 13 UTC
Semi-Anon Classic Game with a twist
Semi-Anon WTA classic game, 24hphases, 30-50 buyin?
81 replies
Open
fortknox (2059 D)
27 Feb 13 UTC
(+12)
Allan B Calhamer (1931-2013)
I just got an email today from Edi Birsan. Allan Calhamer, creator of the board game diplomacy, has passed away. His daughter said her mother "would welcome any memories/stories about Allan or thoughts on what Diplomacy has meant to you."
So please put in thoughts and memories about diplomacy and I'll collect them and send them to her.
34 replies
Open
y77 (241 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
NEW GAME: 1h live (with use of 'ready'-button)
rules: 1h/turn, but everyone uses 'ready' when finished. Pause possible, players agree when to continue. Bet 25, winner-takes-all, anonymous.
Only serious players please - no missed moves and resigns!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=111535
3 replies
Open
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Feb 13 UTC
Zombie Apocalypse is almost here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueBZuZAoglE
The fact that our elected officials are talking about ways to stop the outbreak is proof that we should be concerned. So stock pile food ammo and guns, cause your going to need them in the coming months.
If anyone has advice for surviving the Apocalypse, feel free to post below.
196 replies
Open
Mujus (1495 D(B))
20 Aug 12 UTC
Daily Bible Reading
Wherein the ancient tale of sin and evil, repentance and forgiveness, and an eternal relationship with the living God of the universe is presented.
Page 4 of 18
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FlemGem (1297 D)
02 Oct 12 UTC
Aw shucks, thanks Mujus :-)
Mujus (1495 D(B))
03 Oct 12 UTC
The Bible reading for October 3 is Genesis 21.
New Living Translation (NLT)

The Birth of Isaac

21:1 The Lord kept his word and did for Sarah exactly what he had promised. 2 She became pregnant, and she gave birth to a son for Abraham in his old age. This happened at just the time God had said it would. 3 And Abraham named their son Isaac. 4 Eight days after Isaac was born, Abraham circumcised him as God had commanded. 5 Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was born.

6 And Sarah declared, “God has brought me laughter.[a] All who hear about this will laugh with me. 7 Who would have said to Abraham that Sarah would nurse a baby? Yet I have given Abraham a son in his old age!”

Hagar and Ishmael Are Sent Away

8 When Isaac grew up and was about to be weaned, Abraham prepared a huge feast to celebrate the occasion. 9 But Sarah saw Ishmael—the son of Abraham and her Egyptian servant Hagar—making fun of her son, Isaac.[b] 10 So she turned to Abraham and demanded, “Get rid of that slave woman and her son. He is not going to share the inheritance with my son, Isaac. I won’t have it!”

11 This upset Abraham very much because Ishmael was his son. 12 But God told Abraham, “Do not be upset over the boy and your servant. Do whatever Sarah tells you, for Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted. 13 But I will also make a nation of the descendants of Hagar’s son because he is your son, too.”

14 So Abraham got up early the next morning, prepared food and a container of water, and strapped them on Hagar’s shoulders. Then he sent her away with their son, and she wandered aimlessly in the wilderness of Beersheba.

15 When the water was gone, she put the boy in the shade of a bush. 16 Then she went and sat down by herself about a hundred yards[c] away. “I don’t want to watch the boy die,” she said, as she burst into tears.

17 But God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven, “Hagar, what’s wrong? Do not be afraid! God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Go to him and comfort him, for I will make a great nation from his descendants.”

19 Then God opened Hagar’s eyes, and she saw a well full of water. She quickly filled her water container and gave the boy a drink.

20 And God was with the boy as he grew up in the wilderness. He became a skillful archer, 21 and he settled in the wilderness of Paran. His mother arranged for him to marry a woman from the land of Egypt.

Abraham’s Covenant with Abimelech

22 About this time, Abimelech came with Phicol, his army commander, to visit Abraham. “God is obviously with you, helping you in everything you do,” Abimelech said. 23 “Swear to me in God’s name that you will never deceive me, my children, or any of my descendants. I have been loyal to you, so now swear that you will be loyal to me and to this country where you are living as a foreigner.”

24 Abraham replied, “Yes, I swear to it!” 25 Then Abraham complained to Abimelech about a well that Abimelech’s servants had taken by force from Abraham’s servants.

26 “This is the first I’ve heard of it,” Abimelech answered. “I have no idea who is responsible. You have never complained about this before.”

27 Abraham then gave some of his sheep, goats, and cattle to Abimelech, and they made a treaty. 28 But Abraham also took seven additional female lambs and set them off by themselves. 29 Abimelech asked, “Why have you set these seven apart from the others?”

30 Abraham replied, “Please accept these seven lambs to show your agreement that I dug this well.” 31 Then he named the place Beersheba (which means “well of the oath”), because that was where they had sworn the oath.

32 After making their covenant at Beersheba, Abimelech left with Phicol, the commander of his army, and they returned home to the land of the Philistines. 33 Then Abraham planted a tamarisk tree at Beersheba, and there he worshiped the Lord, the Eternal God.[d] 34 And Abraham lived as a foreigner in Philistine country for a long time.

Footnotes:a.Genesis 21:6 The name Isaac means “he laughs.”
b.Genesis 21:9 As in Greek version and Latin Vulgate; Hebrew lacks of her son, Isaac.
c.Genesis 21:16 Hebrew a bowshot.
d.Genesis 21:33 Hebrew El-Olam.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
04 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 22 is the Bible reading for October 4, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)
Abraham’s Faith Tested

22:1 Some time later, God tested Abraham’s faith. “Abraham!” God called.

“Yes,” he replied. “Here I am.”

2 “Take your son, your only son—yes, Isaac, whom you love so much—and go to the land of Moriah. Go and sacrifice him as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will show you.”

3 The next morning Abraham got up early. He saddled his donkey and took two of his servants with him, along with his son, Isaac. Then he chopped wood for a fire for a burnt offering and set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day of their journey, Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 “Stay here with the donkey,” Abraham told the servants. “The boy and I will travel a little farther. We will worship there, and then we will come right back.”

6 So Abraham placed the wood for the burnt offering on Isaac’s shoulders, while he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them walked on together, 7 Isaac turned to Abraham and said, “Father?”

“Yes, my son?” Abraham replied.

“We have the fire and the wood,” the boy said, “but where is the sheep for the burnt offering?”

8 “God will provide a sheep for the burnt offering, my son,” Abraham answered. And they both walked on together.

9 When they arrived at the place where God had told him to go, Abraham built an altar and arranged the wood on it. Then he tied his son, Isaac, and laid him on the altar on top of the wood. 10 And Abraham picked up the knife to kill his son as a sacrifice. 11 At that moment the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!”

“Yes,” Abraham replied. “Here I am!”

12 “Don’t lay a hand on the boy!” the angel said. “Do not hurt him in any way, for now I know that you truly fear God. You have not withheld from me even your son, your only son.”

13 Then Abraham looked up and saw a ram caught by its horns in a thicket. So he took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering in place of his son. 14 Abraham named the place Yahweh-Yireh (which means “the Lord will provide”). To this day, people still use that name as a proverb: “On the mountain of the Lord it will be provided.”

15 Then the angel of the Lord called again to Abraham from heaven. 16 “This is what the Lord says: Because you have obeyed me and have not withheld even your son, your only son, I swear by my own name that 17 I will certainly bless you. I will multiply your descendants[a] beyond number, like the stars in the sky and the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will conquer the cities of their enemies. 18 And through your descendants all the nations of the earth will be blessed—all because you have obeyed me.”

19 Then they returned to the servants and traveled back to Beersheba, where Abraham continued to live.

20 Soon after this, Abraham heard that Milcah, his brother Nahor’s wife, had borne Nahor eight sons. 21 The oldest was named Uz, the next oldest was Buz, followed by Kemuel (the ancestor of the Arameans), 22 Kesed, Hazo, Pildash, Jidlaph, and Bethuel. 23 (Bethuel became the father of Rebekah.) In addition to these eight sons from Milcah, 24 Nahor had four other children from his concubine Reumah. Their names were Tebah, Gaham, Tahash, and Maacah.

Footnotes:
Genesis 22:17 Hebrew seed; also in 22:17b, 18.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%2022&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
05 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 23 is the Bible reading for October 5, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)
The Burial of Sarah

23:1 When Sarah was 127 years old, 2 she died at Kiriath-arba (now called Hebron) in the land of Canaan. There Abraham mourned and wept for her.

3 Then, leaving her body, he said to the Hittite elders, 4 “Here I am, a stranger and a foreigner among you. Please sell me a piece of land so I can give my wife a proper burial.”

5 The Hittites replied to Abraham, 6 “Listen, my lord, you are an honored prince among us. Choose the finest of our tombs and bury her there. No one here will refuse to help you in this way.”

7 Then Abraham bowed low before the Hittites 8 and said, “Since you are willing to help me in this way, be so kind as to ask Ephron son of Zohar 9 to let me buy his cave at Machpelah, down at the end of his field. I will pay the full price in the presence of witnesses, so I will have a permanent burial place for my family.”

10 Ephron was sitting there among the others, and he answered Abraham as the others listened, speaking publicly before all the Hittite elders of the town. 11 “No, my lord,” he said to Abraham, “please listen to me. I will give you the field and the cave. Here in the presence of my people, I give it to you. Go and bury your dead.”

12 Abraham again bowed low before the citizens of the land, 13 and he replied to Ephron as everyone listened. “No, listen to me. I will buy it from you. Let me pay the full price for the field so I can bury my dead there.”

14 Ephron answered Abraham, 15 “My lord, please listen to me. The land is worth 400 pieces[a] of silver, but what is that between friends? Go ahead and bury your dead.”

16 So Abraham agreed to Ephron’s price and paid the amount he had suggested—400 pieces of silver, weighed according to the market standard. The Hittite elders witnessed the transaction.

17 So Abraham bought the plot of land belonging to Ephron at Machpelah, near Mamre. This included the field itself, the cave that was in it, and all the surrounding trees. 18 It was transferred to Abraham as his permanent possession in the presence of the Hittite elders at the city gate. 19 Then Abraham buried his wife, Sarah, there in Canaan, in the cave of Machpelah, near Mamre (also called Hebron). 20 So the field and the cave were transferred from the Hittites to Abraham for use as a permanent burial place.

Footnotes:a.Genesis 23:15 Hebrew 400 shekels, about 10 pounds or 4.6 kilograms in weight; also in 23:16.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%2023&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
06 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 24 is the Bible reading for October 6, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)
A Wife for Isaac

24 Abraham was now a very old man, and the Lord had blessed him in every way. 2 One day Abraham said to his oldest servant, the man in charge of his household, “Take an oath by putting your hand under my thigh. 3 Swear by the Lord, the God of heaven and earth, that you will not allow my son to marry one of these local Canaanite women. 4 Go instead to my homeland, to my relatives, and find a wife there for my son Isaac.”

5 The servant asked, “But what if I can’t find a young woman who is willing to travel so far from home? Should I then take Isaac there to live among your relatives in the land you came from?”

6 “No!” Abraham responded. “Be careful never to take my son there. 7 For the Lord, the God of heaven, who took me from my father’s house and my native land, solemnly promised to give this land to my descendants.[a] He will send his angel ahead of you, and he will see to it that you find a wife there for my son. 8 If she is unwilling to come back with you, then you are free from this oath of mine. But under no circumstances are you to take my son there.”

9 So the servant took an oath by putting his hand under the thigh of his master, Abraham. He swore to follow Abraham’s instructions. 10 Then he loaded ten of Abraham’s camels with all kinds of expensive gifts from his master, and he traveled to distant Aram-naharaim. There he went to the town where Abraham’s brother Nahor had settled. 11 He made the camels kneel beside a well just outside the town. It was evening, and the women were coming out to draw water.

12 “O Lord, God of my master, Abraham,” he prayed. “Please give me success today, and show unfailing love to my master, Abraham. 13 See, I am standing here beside this spring, and the young women of the town are coming out to draw water. 14 This is my request. I will ask one of them, ‘Please give me a drink from your jug.’ If she says, ‘Yes, have a drink, and I will water your camels, too!’—let her be the one you have selected as Isaac’s wife. This is how I will know that you have shown unfailing love to my master.”

15 Before he had finished praying, he saw a young woman named Rebekah coming out with her water jug on her shoulder. She was the daughter of Bethuel, who was the son of Abraham’s brother Nahor and his wife, Milcah. 16 Rebekah was very beautiful and old enough to be married, but she was still a virgin. She went down to the spring, filled her jug, and came up again. 17 Running over to her, the servant said, “Please give me a little drink of water from your jug.”

18 “Yes, my lord,” she answered, “have a drink.” And she quickly lowered her jug from her shoulder and gave him a drink. 19 When she had given him a drink, she said, “I’ll draw water for your camels, too, until they have had enough to drink.” 20 So she quickly emptied her jug into the watering trough and ran back to the well to draw water for all his camels.

21 The servant watched her in silence, wondering whether or not the Lord had given him success in his mission. 22 Then at last, when the camels had finished drinking, he took out a gold ring for her nose and two large gold bracelets[b] for her wrists.

23 “Whose daughter are you?” he asked. “And please tell me, would your father have any room to put us up for the night?”

24 “I am the daughter of Bethuel,” she replied. “My grandparents are Nahor and Milcah. 25 Yes, we have plenty of straw and feed for the camels, and we have room for guests.”

26 The man bowed low and worshiped the Lord. 27 “Praise the Lord, the God of my master, Abraham,” he said. “The Lord has shown unfailing love and faithfulness to my master, for he has led me straight to my master’s relatives.”

28 The young woman ran home to tell her family everything that had happened. 29 Now Rebekah had a brother named Laban, who ran out to meet the man at the spring. 30 He had seen the nose-ring and the bracelets on his sister’s wrists, and had heard Rebekah tell what the man had said. So he rushed out to the spring, where the man was still standing beside his camels. 31 Laban said to him, “Come and stay with us, you who are blessed by the Lord! Why are you standing here outside the town when I have a room all ready for you and a place prepared for the camels?”

32 So the man went home with Laban, and Laban unloaded the camels, gave him straw for their bedding, fed them, and provided water for the man and the camel drivers to wash their feet. 33 Then food was served. But Abraham’s servant said, “I don’t want to eat until I have told you why I have come.”

“All right,” Laban said, “tell us.”

34 “I am Abraham’s servant,” he explained. 35 “And the Lord has greatly blessed my master; he has become a wealthy man. The Lord has given him flocks of sheep and goats, herds of cattle, a fortune in silver and gold, and many male and female servants and camels and donkeys.

36 “When Sarah, my master’s wife, was very old, she gave birth to my master’s son, and my master has given him everything he owns. 37 And my master made me take an oath. He said, ‘Do not allow my son to marry one of these local Canaanite women. 38 Go instead to my father’s house, to my relatives, and find a wife there for my son.’

39 “But I said to my master, ‘What if I can’t find a young woman who is willing to go back with me?’ 40 He responded, ‘The Lord, in whose presence I have lived, will send his angel with you and will make your mission successful. Yes, you must find a wife for my son from among my relatives, from my father’s family. 41 Then you will have fulfilled your obligation. But if you go to my relatives and they refuse to let her go with you, you will be free from my oath.’

42 “So today when I came to the spring, I prayed this prayer: ‘O Lord, God of my master, Abraham, please give me success on this mission. 43 See, I am standing here beside this spring. This is my request. When a young woman comes to draw water, I will say to her, “Please give me a little drink of water from your jug.” 44 If she says, “Yes, have a drink, and I will draw water for your camels, too,” let her be the one you have selected to be the wife of my master’s son.’

45 “Before I had finished praying in my heart, I saw Rebekah coming out with her water jug on her shoulder. She went down to the spring and drew water. So I said to her, ‘Please give me a drink.’ 46 She quickly lowered her jug from her shoulder and said, ‘Yes, have a drink, and I will water your camels, too!’ So I drank, and then she watered the camels.

47 “Then I asked, ‘Whose daughter are you?’ She replied, ‘I am the daughter of Bethuel, and my grandparents are Nahor and Milcah.’ So I put the ring on her nose, and the bracelets on her wrists.

48 “Then I bowed low and worshiped the Lord. I praised the Lord, the God of my master, Abraham, because he had led me straight to my master’s niece to be his son’s wife. 49 So tell me—will you or won’t you show unfailing love and faithfulness to my master? Please tell me yes or no, and then I’ll know what to do next.”

50 Then Laban and Bethuel replied, “The Lord has obviously brought you here, so there is nothing we can say. 51 Here is Rebekah; take her and go. Yes, let her be the wife of your master’s son, as the Lord has directed.”

52 When Abraham’s servant heard their answer, he bowed down to the ground and worshiped the Lord. 53 Then he brought out silver and gold jewelry and clothing and presented them to Rebekah. He also gave expensive presents to her brother and mother. 54 Then they ate their meal, and the servant and the men with him stayed there overnight.

But early the next morning, Abraham’s servant said, “Send me back to my master.”

55 “But we want Rebekah to stay with us at least ten days,” her brother and mother said. “Then she can go.”

56 But he said, “Don’t delay me. The Lord has made my mission successful; now send me back so I can return to my master.”

57 “Well,” they said, “we’ll call Rebekah and ask her what she thinks.” 58 So they called Rebekah. “Are you willing to go with this man?” they asked her.

And she replied, “Yes, I will go.”

59 So they said good-bye to Rebekah and sent her away with Abraham’s servant and his men. The woman who had been Rebekah’s childhood nurse went along with her. 60 They gave her this blessing as she parted:

“Our sister, may you become
the mother of many millions!
May your descendants be strong
and conquer the cities of their enemies.”

61 Then Rebekah and her servant girls mounted the camels and followed the man. So Abraham’s servant took Rebekah and went on his way.

62 Meanwhile, Isaac, whose home was in the Negev, had returned from Beer-lahai-roi. 63 One evening as he was walking and meditating in the fields, he looked up and saw the camels coming. 64 When Rebekah looked up and saw Isaac, she quickly dismounted from her camel. 65 “Who is that man walking through the fields to meet us?” she asked the servant.

And he replied, “It is my master.” So Rebekah covered her face with her veil. 66 Then the servant told Isaac everything he had done.

67 And Isaac brought Rebekah into his mother Sarah’s tent, and she became his wife. He loved her deeply, and she was a special comfort to him after the death of his mother.

Footnotes:
Genesis 24:7 Hebrew seed; also in 24:60.
Genesis 24:22 Hebrew a gold nose-ring weighing a half shekel [0.2 ounces or 6 grams] and two gold bracelets weighing 10 shekels [4 ounces or 114 grams].
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%2024&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
07 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 25 is the Bible reading for October 7, 2012.
The Death of Abraham

25:1 Abraham married another wife, whose name was Keturah. 2 She gave birth to Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. 3 Jokshan was the father of Sheba and Dedan. Dedan’s descendants were the Asshurites, Letushites, and Leummites. 4 Midian’s sons were Ephah, Epher, Hanoch, Abida, and Eldaah. These were all descendants of Abraham through Keturah.

5 Abraham gave everything he owned to his son Isaac. 6 But before he died, he gave gifts to the sons of his concubines and sent them off to a land in the east, away from Isaac.

7 Abraham lived for 175 years, 8 and he died at a ripe old age, having lived a long and satisfying life. He breathed his last and joined his ancestors in death. 9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite. 10 This was the field Abraham had purchased from the Hittites and where he had buried his wife Sarah. 11 After Abraham’s death, God blessed his son Isaac, who settled near Beer-lahai-roi in the Negev.

Ishmael’s Descendants

12 This is the account of the family of Ishmael, the son of Abraham through Hagar, Sarah’s Egyptian servant. 13 Here is a list, by their names and clans, of Ishmael’s descendants: The oldest was Nebaioth, followed by Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, 14 Mishma, Dumah, Massa, 15 Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah. 16 These twelve sons of Ishmael became the founders of twelve tribes named after them, listed according to the places they settled and camped. 17 Ishmael lived for 137 years. Then he breathed his last and joined his ancestors in death. 18 Ishmael’s descendants occupied the region from Havilah to Shur, which is east of Egypt in the direction of Asshur. There they lived in open hostility toward all their relatives.[a]

The Births of Esau and Jacob

19 This is the account of the family of Isaac, the son of Abraham. 20 When Isaac was forty years old, he married Rebekah, the daughter of Bethuel the Aramean from Paddan-aram and the sister of Laban the Aramean.

21 Isaac pleaded with the Lord on behalf of his wife, because she was unable to have children. The Lord answered Isaac’s prayer, and Rebekah became pregnant with twins. 22 But the two children struggled with each other in her womb. So she went to ask the Lord about it. “Why is this happening to me?” she asked.

23 And the Lord told her, “The sons in your womb will become two nations. From the very beginning, the two nations will be rivals. One nation will be stronger than the other; and your older son will serve your younger son.”

24 And when the time came to give birth, Rebekah discovered that she did indeed have twins! 25 The first one was very red at birth and covered with thick hair like a fur coat. So they named him Esau.[b] 26 Then the other twin was born with his hand grasping Esau’s heel. So they named him Jacob.[c] Isaac was sixty years old when the twins were born.

Esau Sells His Birthright

27 As the boys grew up, Esau became a skillful hunter. He was an outdoorsman, but Jacob had a quiet temperament, preferring to stay at home. 28 Isaac loved Esau because he enjoyed eating the wild game Esau brought home, but Rebekah loved Jacob.

29 One day when Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau arrived home from the wilderness exhausted and hungry. 30 Esau said to Jacob, “I’m starved! Give me some of that red stew!” (This is how Esau got his other name, Edom, which means “red.”)

31 “All right,” Jacob replied, “but trade me your rights as the firstborn son.”

32 “Look, I’m dying of starvation!” said Esau. “What good is my birthright to me now?”

33 But Jacob said, “First you must swear that your birthright is mine.” So Esau swore an oath, thereby selling all his rights as the firstborn to his brother, Jacob.

34 Then Jacob gave Esau some bread and lentil stew. Esau ate the meal, then got up and left. He showed contempt for his rights as the firstborn.

Footnotes:
Genesis 25:18 The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain.
Genesis 25:25 Esau sounds like a Hebrew term that means “hair.”
Genesis 25:26 Jacob sounds like the Hebrew words for “heel” and “deceiver.”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2025&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
08 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 26 is the Bible reading for October 8, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)
Isaac Deceives Abimelech

26:1 A severe famine now struck the land, as had happened before in Abraham’s time. So Isaac moved to Gerar, where Abimelech, king of the Philistines, lived.

2 The Lord appeared to Isaac and said, “Do not go down to Egypt, but do as I tell you. 3 Live here as a foreigner in this land, and I will be with you and bless you. I hereby confirm that I will give all these lands to you and your descendants,[a] just as I solemnly promised Abraham, your father. 4 I will cause your descendants to become as numerous as the stars of the sky, and I will give them all these lands. And through your descendants all the nations of the earth will be blessed. 5 I will do this because Abraham listened to me and obeyed all my requirements, commands, decrees, and instructions.” 6 So Isaac stayed in Gerar.

7 When the men who lived there asked Isaac about his wife, Rebekah, he said, “She is my sister.” He was afraid to say, “She is my wife.” He thought, “They will kill me to get her, because she is so beautiful.” 8 But some time later, Abimelech, king of the Philistines, looked out his window and saw Isaac caressing Rebekah.

9 Immediately, Abimelech called for Isaac and exclaimed, “She is obviously your wife! Why did you say, ‘She is my sister’?”

“Because I was afraid someone would kill me to get her from me,” Isaac replied.

10 “How could you do this to us?” Abimelech exclaimed. “One of my people might easily have taken your wife and slept with her, and you would have made us guilty of great sin.”

11 Then Abimelech issued a public proclamation: “Anyone who touches this man or his wife will be put to death!”

Conflict over Water Rights

12 When Isaac planted his crops that year, he harvested a hundred times more grain than he planted, for the Lord blessed him. 13 He became a very rich man, and his wealth continued to grow. 14 He acquired so many flocks of sheep and goats, herds of cattle, and servants that the Philistines became jealous of him. 15 So the Philistines filled up all of Isaac’s wells with dirt. These were the wells that had been dug by the servants of his father, Abraham.

16 Finally, Abimelech ordered Isaac to leave the country. “Go somewhere else,” he said, “for you have become too powerful for us.”

17 So Isaac moved away to the Gerar Valley, where he set up their tents and settled down. 18 He reopened the wells his father had dug, which the Philistines had filled in after Abraham’s death. Isaac also restored the names Abraham had given them.

19 Isaac’s servants also dug in the Gerar Valley and discovered a well of fresh water. 20 But then the shepherds from Gerar came and claimed the spring. “This is our water,” they said, and they argued over it with Isaac’s herdsmen. So Isaac named the well Esek (which means “argument”). 21 Isaac’s men then dug another well, but again there was a dispute over it. So Isaac named it Sitnah (which means “hostility”). 22 Abandoning that one, Isaac moved on and dug another well. This time there was no dispute over it, so Isaac named the place Rehoboth (which means “open space”), for he said, “At last the Lord has created enough space for us to prosper in this land.”

23 From there Isaac moved to Beersheba, 24 where the Lord appeared to him on the night of his arrival. “I am the God of your father, Abraham,” he said. “Do not be afraid, for I am with you and will bless you. I will multiply your descendants, and they will become a great nation. I will do this because of my promise to Abraham, my servant.” 25 Then Isaac built an altar there and worshiped the Lord. He set up his camp at that place, and his servants dug another well.

Isaac’s Covenant with Abimelech

26 One day King Abimelech came from Gerar with his adviser, Ahuzzath, and also Phicol, his army commander. 27 “Why have you come here?” Isaac asked. “You obviously hate me, since you kicked me off your land.”

28 They replied, “We can plainly see that the Lord is with you. So we want to enter into a sworn treaty with you. Let’s make a covenant. 29 Swear that you will not harm us, just as we have never troubled you. We have always treated you well, and we sent you away from us in peace. And now look how the Lord has blessed you!”

30 So Isaac prepared a covenant feast to celebrate the treaty, and they ate and drank together. 31 Early the next morning, they each took a solemn oath not to interfere with each other. Then Isaac sent them home again, and they left him in peace.

32 That very day Isaac’s servants came and told him about a new well they had dug. “We’ve found water!” they exclaimed. 33 So Isaac named the well Shibah (which means “oath”). And to this day the town that grew up there is called Beersheba (which means “well of the oath”).

34 At the age of forty, Esau married two Hittite wives: Judith, the daughter of Beeri, and Basemath, the daughter of Elon. 35 But Esau’s wives made life miserable for Isaac and Rebekah.

Footnotes:a.Genesis 26:3 Hebrew seed; also in 26:4, 24.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2026&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
09 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 27 is the Bible reading for October 9, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)
Jacob Arrives at Paddan-Aram

29:1 Then Jacob hurried on, finally arriving in the land of the east. 2 He saw a well in the distance. Three flocks of sheep and goats lay in an open field beside it, waiting to be watered. But a heavy stone covered the mouth of the well.

3 It was the custom there to wait for all the flocks to arrive before removing the stone and watering the animals. Afterward the stone would be placed back over the mouth of the well. 4 Jacob went over to the shepherds and asked, “Where are you from, my friends?”

“We are from Haran,” they answered.

5 “Do you know a man there named Laban, the grandson of Nahor?” he asked.

“Yes, we do,” they replied.

6 “Is he doing well?” Jacob asked.

“Yes, he’s well,” they answered. “Look, here comes his daughter Rachel with the flock now.”

7 Jacob said, “Look, it’s still broad daylight—too early to round up the animals. Why don’t you water the sheep and goats so they can get back out to pasture?”

8 “We can’t water the animals until all the flocks have arrived,” they replied. “Then the shepherds move the stone from the mouth of the well, and we water all the sheep and goats.”

9 Jacob was still talking with them when Rachel arrived with her father’s flock, for she was a shepherd. 10 And because Rachel was his cousin—the daughter of Laban, his mother’s brother—and because the sheep and goats belonged to his uncle Laban, Jacob went over to the well and moved the stone from its mouth and watered his uncle’s flock. 11 Then Jacob kissed Rachel, and he wept aloud. 12 He explained to Rachel that he was her cousin on her father’s side—the son of her aunt Rebekah. So Rachel quickly ran and told her father, Laban.

13 As soon as Laban heard that his nephew Jacob had arrived, he ran out to meet him. He embraced and kissed him and brought him home. When Jacob had told him his story, 14 Laban exclaimed, “You really are my own flesh and blood!”

Jacob Marries Leah and Rachel

After Jacob had stayed with Laban for about a month, 15 Laban said to him, “You shouldn’t work for me without pay just because we are relatives. Tell me how much your wages should be.”

16 Now Laban had two daughters. The older daughter was named Leah, and the younger one was Rachel. 17 There was no sparkle in Leah’s eyes,[a] but Rachel had a beautiful figure and a lovely face. 18 Since Jacob was in love with Rachel, he told her father, “I’ll work for you for seven years if you’ll give me Rachel, your younger daughter, as my wife.”

19 “Agreed!” Laban replied. “I’d rather give her to you than to anyone else. Stay and work with me.” 20 So Jacob worked seven years to pay for Rachel. But his love for her was so strong that it seemed to him but a few days.

21 Finally, the time came for him to marry her. “I have fulfilled my agreement,” Jacob said to Laban. “Now give me my wife so I can sleep with her.”

22 So Laban invited everyone in the neighborhood and prepared a wedding feast. 23 But that night, when it was dark, Laban took Leah to Jacob, and he slept with her. 24 (Laban had given Leah a servant, Zilpah, to be her maid.)

25 But when Jacob woke up in the morning—it was Leah! “What have you done to me?” Jacob raged at Laban. “I worked seven years for Rachel! Why have you tricked me?”

26 “It’s not our custom here to marry off a younger daughter ahead of the firstborn,” Laban replied. 27 “But wait until the bridal week is over, then we’ll give you Rachel, too—provided you promise to work another seven years for me.”

28 So Jacob agreed to work seven more years. A week after Jacob had married Leah, Laban gave him Rachel, too. 29 (Laban gave Rachel a servant, Bilhah, to be her maid.) 30 So Jacob slept with Rachel, too, and he loved her much more than Leah. He then stayed and worked for Laban the additional seven years.

Jacob’s Many Children

31 When the Lord saw that Leah was unloved, he enabled her to have children, but Rachel could not conceive. 32 So Leah became pregnant and gave birth to a son. She named him Reuben,[b] for she said, “The Lord has noticed my misery, and now my husband will love me.”

33 She soon became pregnant again and gave birth to another son. She named him Simeon,[c] for she said, “The Lord heard that I was unloved and has given me another son.”

34 Then she became pregnant a third time and gave birth to another son. She named him Levi,[d] for she said, “Surely this time my husband will feel affection for me, since I have given him three sons!”

35 Once again Leah became pregnant and gave birth to another son. She named him Judah,[e] for she said, “Now I will praise the Lord!” And then she stopped having children.

Footnotes:
Genesis 29:17 Or Leah had dull eyes, or Leah had soft eyes. The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain.
Genesis 29:32 Reuben means “Look, a son!” It also sounds like the Hebrew for “He has seen my misery.”
Genesis 29:33 Simeon probably means “one who hears.”
Genesis 29:34 Levi sounds like a Hebrew term that means “being attached” or “feeling affection for.”
Genesis 29:35 Judah is related to the Hebrew term for “praise.”
Mujus (1495 D(B))
09 Oct 12 UTC
Oops, Genesis 27 this time:
New Living Translation (NLT)
Jacob Steals Esau’s Blessing

27:1 One day when Isaac was old and turning blind, he called for Esau, his older son, and said, “My son.”

“Yes, Father?” Esau replied.

2 “I am an old man now,” Isaac said, “and I don’t know when I may die. 3 Take your bow and a quiver full of arrows, and go out into the open country to hunt some wild game for me. 4 Prepare my favorite dish, and bring it here for me to eat. Then I will pronounce the blessing that belongs to you, my firstborn son, before I die.”

5 But Rebekah overheard what Isaac had said to his son Esau. So when Esau left to hunt for the wild game, 6 she said to her son Jacob, “Listen. I overheard your father say to Esau, 7 ‘Bring me some wild game and prepare me a delicious meal. Then I will bless you in the Lord’s presence before I die.’ 8 Now, my son, listen to me. Do exactly as I tell you. 9 Go out to the flocks, and bring me two fine young goats. I’ll use them to prepare your father’s favorite dish. 10 Then take the food to your father so he can eat it and bless you before he dies.”

11 “But look,” Jacob replied to Rebekah, “my brother, Esau, is a hairy man, and my skin is smooth. 12 What if my father touches me? He’ll see that I’m trying to trick him, and then he’ll curse me instead of blessing me.”

13 But his mother replied, “Then let the curse fall on me, my son! Just do what I tell you. Go out and get the goats for me!”

14 So Jacob went out and got the young goats for his mother. Rebekah took them and prepared a delicious meal, just the way Isaac liked it. 15 Then she took Esau’s favorite clothes, which were there in the house, and gave them to her younger son, Jacob. 16 She covered his arms and the smooth part of his neck with the skin of the young goats. 17 Then she gave Jacob the delicious meal, including freshly baked bread.

18 So Jacob took the food to his father. “My father?” he said.

“Yes, my son,” Isaac answered. “Who are you—Esau or Jacob?”

19 Jacob replied, “It’s Esau, your firstborn son. I’ve done as you told me. Here is the wild game. Now sit up and eat it so you can give me your blessing.”

20 Isaac asked, “How did you find it so quickly, my son?”

“The Lord your God put it in my path!” Jacob replied.

21 Then Isaac said to Jacob, “Come closer so I can touch you and make sure that you really are Esau.” 22 So Jacob went closer to his father, and Isaac touched him. “The voice is Jacob’s, but the hands are Esau’s,” Isaac said. 23 But he did not recognize Jacob, because Jacob’s hands felt hairy just like Esau’s. So Isaac prepared to bless Jacob. 24 “But are you really my son Esau?” he asked.

“Yes, I am,” Jacob replied.

25 Then Isaac said, “Now, my son, bring me the wild game. Let me eat it, and then I will give you my blessing.” So Jacob took the food to his father, and Isaac ate it. He also drank the wine that Jacob served him. 26 Then Isaac said to Jacob, “Please come a little closer and kiss me, my son.”

27 So Jacob went over and kissed him. And when Isaac caught the smell of his clothes, he was finally convinced, and he blessed his son. He said, “Ah! The smell of my son is like the smell of the outdoors, which the Lord has blessed!

28 “From the dew of heaven
and the richness of the earth,
may God always give you abundant harvests of grain
and bountiful new wine.
29 May many nations become your servants,
and may they bow down to you.
May you be the master over your brothers,
and may your mother’s sons bow down to you.
All who curse you will be cursed,
and all who bless you will be blessed.”
30 As soon as Isaac had finished blessing Jacob, and almost before Jacob had left his father, Esau returned from his hunt. 31 Esau prepared a delicious meal and brought it to his father. Then he said, “Sit up, my father, and eat my wild game so you can give me your blessing.”

32 But Isaac asked him, “Who are you?”

Esau replied, “It’s your son, your firstborn son, Esau.”

33 Isaac began to tremble uncontrollably and said, “Then who just served me wild game? I have already eaten it, and I blessed him just before you came. And yes, that blessing must stand!”

34 When Esau heard his father’s words, he let out a loud and bitter cry. “Oh my father, what about me? Bless me, too!” he begged.

35 But Isaac said, “Your brother was here, and he tricked me. He has taken away your blessing.”

36 Esau exclaimed, “No wonder his name is Jacob, for now he has cheated me twice.[a] First he took my rights as the firstborn, and now he has stolen my blessing. Oh, haven’t you saved even one blessing for me?”

37 Isaac said to Esau, “I have made Jacob your master and have declared that all his brothers will be his servants. I have guaranteed him an abundance of grain and wine—what is left for me to give you, my son?”

38 Esau pleaded, “But do you have only one blessing? Oh my father, bless me, too!” Then Esau broke down and wept.

39 Finally, his father, Isaac, said to him,

“You will live away from the richness of the earth,
and away from the dew of the heaven above.
40 You will live by your sword,
and you will serve your brother.
But when you decide to break free,
you will shake his yoke from your neck.”
Jacob Flees to Paddan-Aram

41 From that time on, Esau hated Jacob because their father had given Jacob the blessing. And Esau began to scheme: “I will soon be mourning my father’s death. Then I will kill my brother, Jacob.”

42 But Rebekah heard about Esau’s plans. So she sent for Jacob and told him, “Listen, Esau is consoling himself by plotting to kill you. 43 So listen carefully, my son. Get ready and flee to my brother, Laban, in Haran. 44 Stay there with him until your brother cools off. 45 When he calms down and forgets what you have done to him, I will send for you to come back. Why should I lose both of you in one day?”

46 Then Rebekah said to Isaac, “I’m sick and tired of these local Hittite women! I would rather die than see Jacob marry one of them.”

Footnotes:
Genesis 27:36 Jacob sounds like the Hebrew words for “heel” and “deceiver.”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2027&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
10 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 28 is the Bible reading for October 9, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)
28:1 So Isaac called for Jacob, blessed him, and said, “You must not marry any of these Canaanite women. 2 Instead, go at once to Paddan-aram, to the house of your grandfather Bethuel, and marry one of your uncle Laban’s daughters. 3 May God Almighty[a] bless you and give you many children. And may your descendants multiply and become many nations! 4 May God pass on to you and your descendants[b] the blessings he promised to Abraham. May you own this land where you are now living as a foreigner, for God gave this land to Abraham.”

5 So Isaac sent Jacob away, and he went to Paddan-aram to stay with his uncle Laban, his mother’s brother, the son of Bethuel the Aramean.

6 Esau knew that his father, Isaac, had blessed Jacob and sent him to Paddan-aram to find a wife, and that he had warned Jacob, “You must not marry a Canaanite woman.” 7 He also knew that Jacob had obeyed his parents and gone to Paddan-aram. 8 It was now very clear to Esau that his father did not like the local Canaanite women. 9 So Esau visited his uncle Ishmael’s family and married one of Ishmael’s daughters, in addition to the wives he already had. His new wife’s name was Mahalath. She was the sister of Nebaioth and the daughter of Ishmael, Abraham’s son.

Jacob’s Dream at Bethel

10 Meanwhile, Jacob left Beersheba and traveled toward Haran. 11 At sundown he arrived at a good place to set up camp and stopped there for the night. Jacob found a stone to rest his head against and lay down to sleep. 12 As he slept, he dreamed of a stairway that reached from the earth up to heaven. And he saw the angels of God going up and down the stairway.

13 At the top of the stairway stood the Lord, and he said, “I am the Lord, the God of your grandfather Abraham, and the God of your father, Isaac. The ground you are lying on belongs to you. I am giving it to you and your descendants. 14 Your descendants will be as numerous as the dust of the earth! They will spread out in all directions—to the west and the east, to the north and the south. And all the families of the earth will be blessed through you and your descendants. 15 What’s more, I am with you, and I will protect you wherever you go. One day I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have finished giving you everything I have promised you.”

16 Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, “Surely the Lord is in this place, and I wasn’t even aware of it!” 17 But he was also afraid and said, “What an awesome place this is! It is none other than the house of God, the very gateway to heaven!”

18 The next morning Jacob got up very early. He took the stone he had rested his head against, and he set it upright as a memorial pillar. Then he poured olive oil over it. 19 He named that place Bethel (which means “house of God”), although it was previously called Luz.

20 Then Jacob made this vow: “If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing, 21 and if I return safely to my father’s home, then the Lord will certainly be my God. 22 And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me.”

Footnotes:
a.Genesis 28:3 Hebrew El-Shaddai.
b.Genesis 28:4 Hebrew seed; also in 28:13, 14.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
10 Oct 12 UTC
Actually that was for October 10. I can't seem to get the days straight this week!
Mujus (1495 D(B))
11 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 29 is the Bible reading for October 11, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)

Jacob Arrives at Paddan-Aram

29:1 Then Jacob hurried on, finally arriving in the land of the east. 2 He saw a well in the distance. Three flocks of sheep and goats lay in an open field beside it, waiting to be watered. But a heavy stone covered the mouth of the well.

3 It was the custom there to wait for all the flocks to arrive before removing the stone and watering the animals. Afterward the stone would be placed back over the mouth of the well. 4 Jacob went over to the shepherds and asked, “Where are you from, my friends?”

“We are from Haran,” they answered.

5 “Do you know a man there named Laban, the grandson of Nahor?” he asked.

“Yes, we do,” they replied.

6 “Is he doing well?” Jacob asked.

“Yes, he’s well,” they answered. “Look, here comes his daughter Rachel with the flock now.”

7 Jacob said, “Look, it’s still broad daylight—too early to round up the animals. Why don’t you water the sheep and goats so they can get back out to pasture?”

8 “We can’t water the animals until all the flocks have arrived,” they replied. “Then the shepherds move the stone from the mouth of the well, and we water all the sheep and goats.”

9 Jacob was still talking with them when Rachel arrived with her father’s flock, for she was a shepherd. 10 And because Rachel was his cousin—the daughter of Laban, his mother’s brother—and because the sheep and goats belonged to his uncle Laban, Jacob went over to the well and moved the stone from its mouth and watered his uncle’s flock. 11 Then Jacob kissed Rachel, and he wept aloud. 12 He explained to Rachel that he was her cousin on her father’s side—the son of her aunt Rebekah. So Rachel quickly ran and told her father, Laban.

13 As soon as Laban heard that his nephew Jacob had arrived, he ran out to meet him. He embraced and kissed him and brought him home. When Jacob had told him his story, 14 Laban exclaimed, “You really are my own flesh and blood!”

Jacob Marries Leah and Rachel

After Jacob had stayed with Laban for about a month, 15 Laban said to him, “You shouldn’t work for me without pay just because we are relatives. Tell me how much your wages should be.”

16 Now Laban had two daughters. The older daughter was named Leah, and the younger one was Rachel. 17 There was no sparkle in Leah’s eyes,[a] but Rachel had a beautiful figure and a lovely face. 18 Since Jacob was in love with Rachel, he told her father, “I’ll work for you for seven years if you’ll give me Rachel, your younger daughter, as my wife.”

19 “Agreed!” Laban replied. “I’d rather give her to you than to anyone else. Stay and work with me.” 20 So Jacob worked seven years to pay for Rachel. But his love for her was so strong that it seemed to him but a few days.

21 Finally, the time came for him to marry her. “I have fulfilled my agreement,” Jacob said to Laban. “Now give me my wife so I can sleep with her.”

22 So Laban invited everyone in the neighborhood and prepared a wedding feast. 23 But that night, when it was dark, Laban took Leah to Jacob, and he slept with her. 24 (Laban had given Leah a servant, Zilpah, to be her maid.)

25 But when Jacob woke up in the morning—it was Leah! “What have you done to me?” Jacob raged at Laban. “I worked seven years for Rachel! Why have you tricked me?”

26 “It’s not our custom here to marry off a younger daughter ahead of the firstborn,” Laban replied. 27 “But wait until the bridal week is over, then we’ll give you Rachel, too—provided you promise to work another seven years for me.”

28 So Jacob agreed to work seven more years. A week after Jacob had married Leah, Laban gave him Rachel, too. 29 (Laban gave Rachel a servant, Bilhah, to be her maid.) 30 So Jacob slept with Rachel, too, and he loved her much more than Leah. He then stayed and worked for Laban the additional seven years.

Jacob’s Many Children

31 When the Lord saw that Leah was unloved, he enabled her to have children, but Rachel could not conceive. 32 So Leah became pregnant and gave birth to a son. She named him Reuben,[b] for she said, “The Lord has noticed my misery, and now my husband will love me.”

33 She soon became pregnant again and gave birth to another son. She named him Simeon,[c] for she said, “The Lord heard that I was unloved and has given me another son.”

34 Then she became pregnant a third time and gave birth to another son. She named him Levi,[d] for she said, “Surely this time my husband will feel affection for me, since I have given him three sons!”

35 Once again Leah became pregnant and gave birth to another son. She named him Judah,[e] for she said, “Now I will praise the Lord!” And then she stopped having children.

Footnotes:a.Genesis 29:17 Or Leah had dull eyes, or Leah had soft eyes. The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain.
b.Genesis 29:32 Reuben means “Look, a son!” It also sounds like the Hebrew for “He has seen my misery.”
c.Genesis 29:33 Simeon probably means “one who hears.”
d.Genesis 29:34 Levi sounds like a Hebrew term that means “being attached” or “feeling affection for.”
e.Genesis 29:35 Judah is related to the Hebrew term for “praise.”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%2029&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
12 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 30 is the Bible reading for 10-12-12.

New Living Translation (NLT)
30:1 When Rachel saw that she wasn’t having any children for Jacob, she became jealous of her sister. She pleaded with Jacob, “Give me children, or I’ll die!”

2 Then Jacob became furious with Rachel. “Am I God?” he asked. “He’s the one who has kept you from having children!”

3 Then Rachel told him, “Take my maid, Bilhah, and sleep with her. She will bear children for me,[a] and through her I can have a family, too.” 4 So Rachel gave her servant, Bilhah, to Jacob as a wife, and he slept with her. 5 Bilhah became pregnant and presented him with a son. 6 Rachel named him Dan,[b] for she said, “God has vindicated me! He has heard my request and given me a son.” 7 Then Bilhah became pregnant again and gave Jacob a second son. 8 Rachel named him Naphtali,[c] for she said, “I have struggled hard with my sister, and I’m winning!”

9 Meanwhile, Leah realized that she wasn’t getting pregnant anymore, so she took her servant, Zilpah, and gave her to Jacob as a wife. 10 Soon Zilpah presented him with a son. 11 Leah named him Gad,[d] for she said, “How fortunate I am!” 12 Then Zilpah gave Jacob a second son. 13 And Leah named him Asher,[e] for she said, “What joy is mine! Now the other women will celebrate with me.”

14 One day during the wheat harvest, Reuben found some mandrakes growing in a field and brought them to his mother, Leah. Rachel begged Leah, “Please give me some of your son’s mandrakes.”

15 But Leah angrily replied, “Wasn’t it enough that you stole my husband? Now will you steal my son’s mandrakes, too?”

Rachel answered, “I will let Jacob sleep with you tonight if you give me some of the mandrakes.”

16 So that evening, as Jacob was coming home from the fields, Leah went out to meet him. “You must come and sleep with me tonight!” she said. “I have paid for you with some mandrakes that my son found.” So that night he slept with Leah. 17 And God answered Leah’s prayers. She became pregnant again and gave birth to a fifth son for Jacob. 18 She named him Issachar,[f] for she said, “God has rewarded me for giving my servant to my husband as a wife.” 19 Then Leah became pregnant again and gave birth to a sixth son for Jacob. 20 She named him Zebulun,[g] for she said, “God has given me a good reward. Now my husband will treat me with respect, for I have given him six sons.” 21 Later she gave birth to a daughter and named her Dinah.

22 Then God remembered Rachel’s plight and answered her prayers by enabling her to have children. 23 She became pregnant and gave birth to a son. “God has removed my disgrace,” she said. 24 And she named him Joseph,[h] for she said, “May the Lord add yet another son to my family.”

Jacob’s Wealth Increases

25 Soon after Rachel had given birth to Joseph, Jacob said to Laban, “Please release me so I can go home to my own country. 26 Let me take my wives and children, for I have earned them by serving you, and let me be on my way. You certainly know how hard I have worked for you.”

27 “Please listen to me,” Laban replied. “I have become wealthy, for[i] the Lord has blessed me because of you. 28 Tell me how much I owe you. Whatever it is, I’ll pay it.”

29 Jacob replied, “You know how hard I’ve worked for you, and how your flocks and herds have grown under my care. 30 You had little indeed before I came, but your wealth has increased enormously. The Lord has blessed you through everything I’ve done. But now, what about me? When can I start providing for my own family?”

31 “What wages do you want?” Laban asked again.

Jacob replied, “Don’t give me anything. Just do this one thing, and I’ll continue to tend and watch over your flocks. 32 Let me inspect your flocks today and remove all the sheep and goats that are speckled or spotted, along with all the black sheep. Give these to me as my wages. 33 In the future, when you check on the animals you have given me as my wages, you’ll see that I have been honest. If you find in my flock any goats without speckles or spots, or any sheep that are not black, you will know that I have stolen them from you.”

34 “All right,” Laban replied. “It will be as you say.” 35 But that very day Laban went out and removed the male goats that were streaked and spotted, all the female goats that were speckled and spotted or had white patches, and all the black sheep. He placed them in the care of his own sons, 36 who took them a three-days’ journey from where Jacob was. Meanwhile, Jacob stayed and cared for the rest of Laban’s flock.

37 Then Jacob took some fresh branches from poplar, almond, and plane trees and peeled off strips of bark, making white streaks on them. 38 Then he placed these peeled branches in the watering troughs where the flocks came to drink, for that was where they mated. 39 And when they mated in front of the white-streaked branches, they gave birth to young that were streaked, speckled, and spotted. 40 Jacob separated those lambs from Laban’s flock. And at mating time he turned the flock to face Laban’s animals that were streaked or black. This is how he built his own flock instead of increasing Laban’s.

41 Whenever the stronger females were ready to mate, Jacob would place the peeled branches in the watering troughs in front of them. Then they would mate in front of the branches. 42 But he didn’t do this with the weaker ones, so the weaker lambs belonged to Laban, and the stronger ones were Jacob’s. 43 As a result, Jacob became very wealthy, with large flocks of sheep and goats, female and male servants, and many camels and donkeys.

Footnotes:a.Genesis 30:3 Hebrew bear children on my knees.
b.Genesis 30:6 Dan means “he judged” or “he vindicated.”
c.Genesis 30:8 Naphtali means “my struggle.”
d.Genesis 30:11 Gad means “good fortune.”
e.Genesis 30:13 Asher means “happy.”
f.Genesis 30:18 Issachar sounds like a Hebrew term that means “reward.”
g.Genesis 30:20 Zebulun probably means “honor.”
h.Genesis 30:24 Joseph means “may he add.”
i.Genesis 30:27 Or I have learned by divination that.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%2030&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
13 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 31 is the Bible reading for 10/13/12
New Living Translation (NLT)
Jacob Flees from Laban

31:1 But Jacob soon learned that Laban’s sons were grumbling about him. “Jacob has robbed our father of everything!” they said. “He has gained all his wealth at our father’s expense.” 2 And Jacob began to notice a change in Laban’s attitude toward him.

3 Then the Lord said to Jacob, “Return to the land of your father and grandfather and to your relatives there, and I will be with you.”

4 So Jacob called Rachel and Leah out to the field where he was watching his flock. 5 He said to them, “I have noticed that your father’s attitude toward me has changed. But the God of my father has been with me. 6 You know how hard I have worked for your father, 7 but he has cheated me, changing my wages ten times. But God has not allowed him to do me any harm. 8 For if he said, ‘The speckled animals will be your wages,’ the whole flock began to produce speckled young. And when he changed his mind and said, ‘The striped animals will be your wages,’ then the whole flock produced striped young. 9 In this way, God has taken your father’s animals and given them to me.

10 “One time during the mating season, I had a dream and saw that the male goats mating with the females were streaked, speckled, and spotted. 11 Then in my dream, the angel of God said to me, ‘Jacob!’ And I replied, ‘Yes, here I am.’

12 “The angel said, ‘Look up, and you will see that only the streaked, speckled, and spotted males are mating with the females of your flock. For I have seen how Laban has treated you. 13 I am the God who appeared to you at Bethel,[a] the place where you anointed the pillar of stone and made your vow to me. Now get ready and leave this country and return to the land of your birth.’”

14 Rachel and Leah responded, “That’s fine with us! We won’t inherit any of our father’s wealth anyway. 15 He has reduced our rights to those of foreign women. And after he sold us, he wasted the money you paid him for us. 16 All the wealth God has given you from our father legally belongs to us and our children. So go ahead and do whatever God has told you.”

17 So Jacob put his wives and children on camels, 18 and he drove all his livestock in front of him. He packed all the belongings he had acquired in Paddan-aram and set out for the land of Canaan, where his father, Isaac, lived. 19 At the time they left, Laban was some distance away, shearing his sheep. Rachel stole her father’s household idols and took them with her. 20 Jacob outwitted Laban the Aramean, for they set out secretly and never told Laban they were leaving. 21 So Jacob took all his possessions with him and crossed the Euphrates River,[b] heading for the hill country of Gilead.

Laban Pursues Jacob

22 Three days later, Laban was told that Jacob had fled. 23 So he gathered a group of his relatives and set out in hot pursuit. He caught up with Jacob seven days later in the hill country of Gilead. 24 But the previous night God had appeared to Laban the Aramean in a dream and told him, “I’m warning you—leave Jacob alone!”

25 Laban caught up with Jacob as he was camped in the hill country of Gilead, and he set up his camp not far from Jacob’s. 26 “What do you mean by deceiving me like this?” Laban demanded. “How dare you drag my daughters away like prisoners of war? 27 Why did you slip away secretly? Why did you deceive me? And why didn’t you say you wanted to leave? I would have given you a farewell feast, with singing and music, accompanied by tambourines and harps. 28 Why didn’t you let me kiss my daughters and grandchildren and tell them good-bye? You have acted very foolishly! 29 I could destroy you, but the God of your father appeared to me last night and warned me, ‘Leave Jacob alone!’ 30 I can understand your feeling that you must go, and your intense longing for your father’s home. But why have you stolen my gods?”

31 “I rushed away because I was afraid,” Jacob answered. “I thought you would take your daughters from me by force. 32 But as for your gods, see if you can find them, and let the person who has taken them die! And if you find anything else that belongs to you, identify it before all these relatives of ours, and I will give it back!” But Jacob did not know that Rachel had stolen the household idols.

33 Laban went first into Jacob’s tent to search there, then into Leah’s, and then the tents of the two servant wives—but he found nothing. Finally, he went into Rachel’s tent. 34 But Rachel had taken the household idols and hidden them in her camel saddle, and now she was sitting on them. When Laban had thoroughly searched her tent without finding them, 35 she said to her father, “Please, sir, forgive me if I don’t get up for you. I’m having my monthly period.” So Laban continued his search, but he could not find the household idols.

36 Then Jacob became very angry, and he challenged Laban. “What’s my crime?” he demanded. “What have I done wrong to make you chase after me as though I were a criminal? 37 You have rummaged through everything I own. Now show me what you found that belongs to you! Set it out here in front of us, before our relatives, for all to see. Let them judge between us!

38 “For twenty years I have been with you, caring for your flocks. In all that time your sheep and goats never miscarried. In all those years I never used a single ram of yours for food. 39 If any were attacked and killed by wild animals, I never showed you the carcass and asked you to reduce the count of your flock. No, I took the loss myself! You made me pay for every stolen animal, whether it was taken in broad daylight or in the dark of night.

40 “I worked for you through the scorching heat of the day and through cold and sleepless nights. 41 Yes, for twenty years I slaved in your house! I worked for fourteen years earning your two daughters, and then six more years for your flock. And you changed my wages ten times! 42 In fact, if the God of my father had not been on my side—the God of Abraham and the fearsome God of Isaac[c]—you would have sent me away empty-handed. But God has seen your abuse and my hard work. That is why he appeared to you last night and rebuked you!”

Jacob’s Treaty with Laban

43 Then Laban replied to Jacob, “These women are my daughters, these children are my grandchildren, and these flocks are my flocks—in fact, everything you see is mine. But what can I do now about my daughters and their children? 44 So come, let’s make a covenant, you and I, and it will be a witness to our commitment.”

45 So Jacob took a stone and set it up as a monument. 46 Then he told his family members, “Gather some stones.” So they gathered stones and piled them in a heap. Then Jacob and Laban sat down beside the pile of stones to eat a covenant meal. 47 To commemorate the event, Laban called the place Jegar-sahadutha (which means “witness pile” in Aramaic), and Jacob called it Galeed (which means “witness pile” in Hebrew).

48 Then Laban declared, “This pile of stones will stand as a witness to remind us of the covenant we have made today.” This explains why it was called Galeed—“Witness Pile.” 49 But it was also called Mizpah (which means “watchtower”), for Laban said, “May the Lord keep watch between us to make sure that we keep this covenant when we are out of each other’s sight. 50 If you mistreat my daughters or if you marry other wives, God will see it even if no one else does. He is a witness to this covenant between us.

51 “See this pile of stones,” Laban continued, “and see this monument I have set between us. 52 They stand between us as witnesses of our vows. I will never pass this pile of stones to harm you, and you must never pass these stones or this monument to harm me. 53 I call on the God of our ancestors—the God of your grandfather Abraham and the God of my grandfather Nahor—to serve as a judge between us.”

So Jacob took an oath before the fearsome God of his father, Isaac,[d] to respect the boundary line. 54 Then Jacob offered a sacrifice to God there on the mountain and invited everyone to a covenant feast. After they had eaten, they spent the night on the mountain.

55 [e]Laban got up early the next morning, and he kissed his grandchildren and his daughters and blessed them. Then he left and returned home.

Footnotes:a.Genesis 31:13 As in Greek version and an Aramaic Targum; Hebrew reads the God of Bethel.
b.Genesis 31:21 Hebrew the river.
c.Genesis 31:42 Or and the Fear of Isaac.
d.Genesis 31:53 Or the Fear of his father, Isaac.
e.Genesis 31:55 Verse 31:55 is numbered 32:1 in Hebrew text.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%2031&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
14 Oct 12 UTC
The Bible reading for 10-14-12 is Genesis 32.
New Living Translation (NLT)

32:1 [a]As Jacob started on his way again, angels of God came to meet him. 2 When Jacob saw them, he exclaimed, “This is God’s camp!” So he named the place Mahanaim.[b]

Jacob Sends Gifts to Esau

3 Then Jacob sent messengers ahead to his brother, Esau, who was living in the region of Seir in the land of Edom. 4 He told them, “Give this message to my master Esau: ‘Humble greetings from your servant Jacob. Until now I have been living with Uncle Laban, 5 and now I own cattle, donkeys, flocks of sheep and goats, and many servants, both men and women. I have sent these messengers to inform my lord of my coming, hoping that you will be friendly to me.’”

6 After delivering the message, the messengers returned to Jacob and reported, “We met your brother, Esau, and he is already on his way to meet you—with an army of 400 men!” 7 Jacob was terrified at the news. He divided his household, along with the flocks and herds and camels, into two groups. 8 He thought, “If Esau meets one group and attacks it, perhaps the other group can escape.”

9 Then Jacob prayed, “O God of my grandfather Abraham, and God of my father, Isaac—O Lord, you told me, ‘Return to your own land and to your relatives.’ And you promised me, ‘I will treat you kindly.’ 10 I am not worthy of all the unfailing love and faithfulness you have shown to me, your servant. When I left home and crossed the Jordan River, I owned nothing except a walking stick. Now my household fills two large camps! 11 O Lord, please rescue me from the hand of my brother, Esau. I am afraid that he is coming to attack me, along with my wives and children. 12 But you promised me, ‘I will surely treat you kindly, and I will multiply your descendants until they become as numerous as the sands along the seashore—too many to count.’”

13 Jacob stayed where he was for the night. Then he selected these gifts from his possessions to present to his brother, Esau: 14 200 female goats, 20 male goats, 200 ewes, 20 rams, 15 30 female camels with their young, 40 cows, 10 bulls, 20 female donkeys, and 10 male donkeys. 16 He divided these animals into herds and assigned each to different servants. Then he told his servants, “Go ahead of me with the animals, but keep some distance between the herds.”

17 He gave these instructions to the men leading the first group: “When my brother, Esau, meets you, he will ask, ‘Whose servants are you? Where are you going? Who owns these animals?’ 18 You must reply, ‘They belong to your servant Jacob, but they are a gift for his master Esau. Look, he is coming right behind us.’”

19 Jacob gave the same instructions to the second and third herdsmen and to all who followed behind the herds: “You must say the same thing to Esau when you meet him. 20 And be sure to say, ‘Look, your servant Jacob is right behind us.’”

Jacob thought, “I will try to appease him by sending gifts ahead of me. When I see him in person, perhaps he will be friendly to me.” 21 So the gifts were sent on ahead, while Jacob himself spent that night in the camp.

Jacob Wrestles with God

22 During the night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two servant wives, and his eleven sons and crossed the Jabbok River with them. 23 After taking them to the other side, he sent over all his possessions.

24 This left Jacob all alone in the camp, and a man came and wrestled with him until the dawn began to break. 25 When the man saw that he would not win the match, he touched Jacob’s hip and wrenched it out of its socket. 26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking!”

But Jacob said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”

27 “What is your name?” the man asked.

He replied, “Jacob.”

28 “Your name will no longer be Jacob,” the man told him. “From now on you will be called Israel,[c] because you have fought with God and with men and have won.”

29 “Please tell me your name,” Jacob said.

“Why do you want to know my name?” the man replied. Then he blessed Jacob there.

30 Jacob named the place Peniel (which means “face of God”), for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been spared.” 31 The sun was rising as Jacob left Peniel,[d] and he was limping because of the injury to his hip. 32 (Even today the people of Israel don’t eat the tendon near the hip socket because of what happened that night when the man strained the tendon of Jacob’s hip.)

Footnotes:a.Genesis 32:1 Verses 32:1-32 are numbered 32:2-33 in Hebrew text.
b.Genesis 32:2 Mahanaim means “two camps.”
c.Genesis 32:28 Jacob sounds like the Hebrew words for “heel” and “deceiver.” Israel means “God fights.”
d.Genesis 32:31 Hebrew Penuel, a variant spelling of Peniel.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2032&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
15 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 33 is the Bible reading for October 15, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)

Jacob and Esau Make Peace
33:1 Then Jacob looked up and saw Esau coming with his 400 men. So he divided the children among Leah, Rachel, and his two servant wives. 2 He put the servant wives and their children at the front, Leah and her children next, and Rachel and Joseph last. 3 Then Jacob went on ahead. As he approached his brother, he bowed to the ground seven times before him. 4 Then Esau ran to meet him and embraced him, threw his arms around his neck, and kissed him. And they both wept.

5 Then Esau looked at the women and children and asked, “Who are these people with you?”

“These are the children God has graciously given to me, your servant,” Jacob replied. 6 Then the servant wives came forward with their children and bowed before him. 7 Next came Leah with her children, and they bowed before him. Finally, Joseph and Rachel came forward and bowed before him.

8 “And what were all the flocks and herds I met as I came?” Esau asked.

Jacob replied, “They are a gift, my lord, to ensure your friendship.”

9 “My brother, I have plenty,” Esau answered. “Keep what you have for yourself.”

10 But Jacob insisted, “No, if I have found favor with you, please accept this gift from me. And what a relief to see your friendly smile. It is like seeing the face of God! 11 Please take this gift I have brought you, for God has been very gracious to me. I have more than enough.” And because Jacob insisted, Esau finally accepted the gift.

12 “Well,” Esau said, “let’s be going. I will lead the way.”

13 But Jacob replied, “You can see, my lord, that some of the children are very young, and the flocks and herds have their young, too. If they are driven too hard, even for one day, all the animals could die. 14 Please, my lord, go ahead of your servant. We will follow slowly, at a pace that is comfortable for the livestock and the children. I will meet you at Seir.”

15 “All right,” Esau said, “but at least let me assign some of my men to guide and protect you.”

Jacob responded, “That’s not necessary. It’s enough that you’ve received me warmly, my lord!”

16 So Esau turned around and started back to Seir that same day. 17 Jacob, on the other hand, traveled on to Succoth. There he built himself a house and made shelters for his livestock. That is why the place was named Succoth (which means “shelters”).

18 Later, having traveled all the way from Paddan-aram, Jacob arrived safely at the town of Shechem, in the land of Canaan. There he set up camp outside the town. 19 Jacob bought the plot of land where he camped from the family of Hamor, the father of Shechem, for 100 pieces of silver.[a] 20 And there he built an altar and named it El-Elohe-Israel.[b]

Footnotes:
Genesis 33:19 Hebrew 100 kesitahs; the value or weight of the kesitah is no longer known.
Genesis 33:20 El-Elohe-Israel means “God, the God of Israel.”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%2033&version=NLT
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
15 Oct 12 UTC
The Bible? tl;dr

Mutejus if you were really religious you'd type all of this crap out instead of just cntr-C cntr-V it. You're just a big faker.

Also, you're the only person posting here and you probably don't read it yourself.
FlemGem (1297 D)
15 Oct 12 UTC
YJ, I love how you haven't read the Bible because it's too long, but you consider yourself an expert on what religious people should or shouldn't do :-)
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
15 Oct 12 UTC
I haven't read my car's repair manual, a cookbook, or Mein Kampf either, but I've got a pretty good idea about what mechanics, chefs, and fascists should and shouldn't do.

Try again?
FlemGem (1297 D)
16 Oct 12 UTC
Interesting analogies, but perhaps a bit misguided. The Bible isn't like a car manual or a cookbook, neither of which are like Mein Kampf, which also isn't like the Bible (I have read it, fyi). Second, just because you think you know how wine should taste doesn't mean you have any idea what goes into the making of wine. For that matter, your idea of what wine should taste like might be way off, obscured or skewed by ignorance, inexperience, or negative experience. If, for example, you had tasted my pear wine six months ago you would have been positively revolted, and rightly so. It ranked just above lacquer thinner for drinkability. Without a genuine understanding of wine making you might have sworn off FlemGem's pear wine forever, and no one would have blamed you - but you would have been wrong to do so. Very wrong. Six more months in the cellar has done absolute wonders. It is now rich, mellow, fruity, and full-bodied. Mmmm, bring some cheese and crackers next time you're passing through Iowa and we'll share a glass.

Anyway, you seem to have an idea of what religious people should be like. I'd be interested in hearing more about that, just to get your perspective. From a non-religious perspective, what is the religious person supposed to "taste like" when they're finished?
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
16 Oct 12 UTC
Hey Flem, is it NE Iowa, cuz I'm in S Wisconsin. Actually hoping to get a F2F game together in Chicago sometime this year.

Anyways, I can answer you question. What should religious people be like? And before you get started, no, it is not my belief that every religious person is not capable of every one of these things you all just seem to struggle with them as a whole more than others I know.

- You should respect my decision to not believe.
- You should never threaten me with brimstone (though it's kinda funny when you do).
- You should change your beliefs when they contradict fact.
- You should respect my right to marry whoever I want.
- You should respect my right to remove unwanted parasites from my body.
- You should admit that while there are good lessons within, the Bible is not internally consistent.
- You should admit that prayer does nothing.
- You should consider the possibility that of the 2,000 different ways to worship God, maybe, just maybe, YOURS isn't the only one true one.
- You should consider the implications of the Bible as we know it not having been written in Jesus' time.
- You should consider the implications of the lack of role for women in most major sects of Christianity.
- You should consider the implications that a million men kept in isolation all their lives will never come up with Jesus. They'll come up with a million other fantastic stories.
- You should keep your beliefs within your churches and homes.



Sound like too much to ask?
Mujus (1495 D(B))
16 Oct 12 UTC
I have got to get back to Iowa, FlemGem. But it's been... 46 years? So I don't think it'll happen anytime soon.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
16 Oct 12 UTC
YJ, to answer your questions, I do read them every day, and when I take the time to also read Psalms or another book, I really benefit. But as Flem Gem has pointed out, how can you argue against something you haven't even read and therefore don't understand? If you read the Bible and understand its two main messages--God's purity and our impurity--you might be able to argue with Christians. As for being religious, typing by hand and all that, I think self-flagellation went out with the Middle Ages n most parts of the world. Look, the problem may be that you see religious people as saying they are better and deserve to go to heaven, and some people do say that--but it's totally the opposite of what the Bible says. "Come to me, all you who are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest for your soul."
Mujus (1495 D(B))
16 Oct 12 UTC
Genesis 34 is the Bible reading for October 16, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)
Revenge against Shechem

34:1 One day Dinah, the daughter of Jacob and Leah, went to visit some of the young women who lived in the area. 2 But when the local prince, Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, saw Dinah, he seized her and raped her. 3 But then he fell in love with her, and he tried to win her affection with tender words. 4 He said to his father, Hamor, “Get me this young girl. I want to marry her.”

5 Soon Jacob heard that Shechem had defiled his daughter, Dinah. But since his sons were out in the fields herding his livestock, he said nothing until they returned. 6 Hamor, Shechem’s father, came to discuss the matter with Jacob. 7 Meanwhile, Jacob’s sons had come in from the field as soon as they heard what had happened. They were shocked and furious that their sister had been raped. Shechem had done a disgraceful thing against Jacob’s family,[a] something that should never be done.

8 Hamor tried to speak with Jacob and his sons. “My son Shechem is truly in love with your daughter,” he said. “Please let him marry her. 9 In fact, let’s arrange other marriages, too. You give us your daughters for our sons, and we will give you our daughters for your sons. 10 And you may live among us; the land is open to you! Settle here and trade with us. And feel free to buy property in the area.”

11 Then Shechem himself spoke to Dinah’s father and brothers. “Please be kind to me, and let me marry her,” he begged. “I will give you whatever you ask. 12 No matter what dowry or gift you demand, I will gladly pay it—just give me the girl as my wife.”

13 But since Shechem had defiled their sister, Dinah, Jacob’s sons responded deceitfully to Shechem and his father, Hamor. 14 They said to them, “We couldn’t possibly allow this, because you’re not circumcised. It would be a disgrace for our sister to marry a man like you! 15 But here is a solution. If every man among you will be circumcised like we are, 16 then we will give you our daughters, and we’ll take your daughters for ourselves. We will live among you and become one people. 17 But if you don’t agree to be circumcised, we will take her and be on our way.”

18 Hamor and his son Shechem agreed to their proposal. 19 Shechem wasted no time in acting on this request, for he wanted Jacob’s daughter desperately. Shechem was a highly respected member of his family, 20 and he went with his father, Hamor, to present this proposal to the leaders at the town gate.

21 “These men are our friends,” they said. “Let’s invite them to live here among us and trade freely. Look, the land is large enough to hold them. We can take their daughters as wives and let them marry ours. 22 But they will consider staying here and becoming one people with us only if all of our men are circumcised, just as they are. 23 But if we do this, all their livestock and possessions will eventually be ours. Come, let’s agree to their terms and let them settle here among us.”

24 So all the men in the town council agreed with Hamor and Shechem, and every male in the town was circumcised. 25 But three days later, when their wounds were still sore, two of Jacob’s sons, Simeon and Levi, who were Dinah’s full brothers, took their swords and entered the town without opposition. Then they slaughtered every male there, 26 including Hamor and his son Shechem. They killed them with their swords, then took Dinah from Shechem’s house and returned to their camp.

27 Meanwhile, the rest of Jacob’s sons arrived. Finding the men slaughtered, they plundered the town because their sister had been defiled there. 28 They seized all the flocks and herds and donkeys—everything they could lay their hands on, both inside the town and outside in the fields. 29 They looted all their wealth and plundered their houses. They also took all their little children and wives and led them away as captives.

30 Afterward Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, “You have ruined me! You’ve made me stink among all the people of this land—among all the Canaanites and Perizzites. We are so few that they will join forces and crush us. I will be ruined, and my entire household will be wiped out!”

31 “But why should we let him treat our sister like a prostitute?” they retorted angrily.

Footnotes:
Genesis 34:7 Hebrew a disgraceful thing in Israel.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%2034&version=NLT
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
16 Oct 12 UTC
Mutejus: Just because I chose to ignore Flem's counter for now doesn't mean I cede the point. The notion that I'm required to understand your motivations in depth to challenge your desires is absurd. Your motivations are so alien that I could never understand them - anymore than I could understand a fascist's (no, I'm not saying Christians are Nazis).

What I am required to do is slap your silliness down each and every time you try to let it enter the public domain. Keep your Jesus out of our schools, our loves, and our uteruses (uterii?) and we'll get along just fine.
semck83 (229 D(B))
16 Oct 12 UTC
Are you still planning a deathbed conversion, YJ?
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
16 Oct 12 UTC
No, that was a joke.
FlemGem (1297 D)
16 Oct 12 UTC
YJ - you'll be happy to know that I have considered each and every item you suggested I consider. You may be unhappy to know that I disagree with you on certain points - for example, dehumanizing unborn persons by calling them "unwanted parasites" (kinda touchy about that one right now, my wife is pregnant) - but I have certainly considered them deeply. I'd say more, but must be off for awhile. Cheers, and thanks for taking the time.
Oh, and I'm in S.E. Iowa, so we're not too close.
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
16 Oct 12 UTC
There's nothing dehumanizing about what I said - it's just a fact. They are parasites. Human parasites. Just because you want to keep yours (congratulations, btw) doesn't change that fact. They are entirely dependent upon their host for survival - a host that may or may not want them.

Anyways, I could give a rat's ass whether *you* have considered my points. The question was how I expect religious people to act, and there's my answer.
semck83 (229 D(B))
16 Oct 12 UTC
"There's nothing dehumanizing about what I said - it's just a fact. "

YJ, something can be a fact (though this one is up to definitions, obviously) and still be dehumanizing. It's factually defensible from a certain point of view to say that "a person is meat and blood," but referring to people that way is pretty dehumanizing, precisely because it overlooks what makes that meat and blood human (and thus special). So I think your answer here is fallacious, and misses the point of what dehumanizing means.

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532 replies
Sbyvl36 (439 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
There isn't enough money in the world....
There is $2 Trillion in American money of all world currencies in circulation combined. The U.S. National debt is $16 Trillion. So there is literally not enough money in the world to pay it back.
4 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
02 Mar 13 UTC
Need players for a live game at VDIP
http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=12900

Need some players
0 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
27 Feb 13 UTC
(+1)
Fractured Republican Party and the End of Compromise
Discussing the GOP's current state and its relation to the sequester
159 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Mar 13 UTC
Chief Justice Roberts Slanders the Commonwealth of Mass
Incompetent mistake or willful slander? Either way, it is unbecoming of a Chief Justice.

http://tinyurl.com/anzaerl
20 replies
Open
Colonel Saloh Cin (100 D)
28 Feb 13 UTC
Are you the one who will rule the world?
For the easy payment of 15 D, you can enjoy the chance to rule the
world with The World Wide Schlieffen Plan. ( http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=111246 ) . If you can take 10 minutes out of you day for possible world domination, than this deal is for you. In fact this deal is just to good. I'm gonna have to put a time limit
of 7 days for this. I would wait that long though. there's only 13 spaces
left.
3 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
01 Mar 13 UTC
Facts
So, ckroberts just pointed out that in a newspaper article on something US supreme court judge Roberts said about Massachusetts, whereas the debate could have possibly been resolved by providing data, they treated it as a "he-said he-said thing". I actually see that a lot.
5 replies
Open
RaymondNordahl (1132 D)
01 Mar 13 UTC
Parameter 'fromTerrID' set to invalid value 14 - error message
I got the error message above in the game "fast g" gameID=111432
What does it mean and why did it show?
(I won the game anyway, so it didn't really make an impact on gameplay...)
I can email a screenshot if neccesary
1 reply
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
01 Mar 13 UTC
Why do we fight?
A list to contribute towards:
8 replies
Open
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