Just read an interesting piece on people who are genocide deniers. " Professor Slovic: " "The studies just described suggest a disturbing psychological tendency. Our capacity to feel is limited...." Putin, your denial of the fact of the Holodomor indicates your capacity to feel is limited. It shows through in your posts with their double-standards, an inability to understand the viewpoints of others, and of course blatant denial of genocide.

At the time of the famine - Voroshilov, politburo member from Ukraine.
Kaganovich - politburo member from Ukraine
Kosior -politburo member, leading communist from Ukrainian communist party
Vlas Chubar was an associate politburo member, from Ukraine.
Gregory Petrovsky, another associate politburo member, from Ukraine.
5 (out of 15) politburo members were from Ukraine and somehow were not purged.

. Dr. James Mace, director of the Commission on the Ukraine Famine reported to the United States Congress in 1988 that “Joseph Stalin and those around him committed genocide against Ukrainians in 1932-33.” Commission on the Ukraine Famine, Report to Congress, at vii (U.S. Gov’t Prtg. Office, 1988) (Dr. James E. Mace, Staff Director).

All you have left is personal attacks and armchair psychology. You're pathetic.

Putin, there is a mountain of factual evidence that proves the Holodomor and the Holocaust and the Cultural Revolution. Denying these facts will only expose you as a Neo-Communist, a Neo-Stalinist, and an intellectual with limited ability to feel for the victims of genocide.

Actually, after reading about genocide deniers I've decided to help you as much as I can Putin. You need to confront your inability to accept the truth. You need to learn to feel for the victims of genocide. Presenting you with the factual evidence that is accessible to everyone on the web today is the key step.

There's such a mountain of evidence that all you have managed to do is quote genocidal anti-semites who hate communism, cite fraudulent quotes which have long ago been debunked, and attack me personally over and over again: calling me a criminal, among other things.

Not to mention that you haven't bothered refuting the documentary evidence from an anti-Stalin/anti-Soviet source which documents how the Soviet leadership tried to alleviate the famine. You haven't bothered refuting the fact that a full 33% of the Politburo was from Ukraine/Ukrainian at the time of the famine, and were not purged. You haven't bothered to refute the fact that Ukrainians fought heroically against Hitler, despite somehow being exterminated in the 30s. You haven't demonstrated anything but you're own intellectual laziness and unsurpassed trolling ability.

"You need to learn to feel for the victims of genocide."

Which is why you cite Proudhon, approvingly, right? And you also cite Thomas Sowell, whose only claim to fame is attacking black people for feeling they were wronged by slavery. Because you have such compassion for victims of atrocities, indeed.

"Presenting you with the factual evidence that is accessible to everyone on the web today is the key step."

You even advertise your own intellectual laziness as a badge of honor. It's on the web, so it must be true, and you don't have to bother doing the hard work of verifying anything. Just pull numbers out of your ass, and cite a bunch of anti-communists. That'll do.

Actually the evidence comes from now open Soviet era documents. Today, thanks to the opening of the archives of the Secret Services of Ukraine (“SBU”), there are many documents showing intent in accordance with the requirements of the Genocide Convention. This additional evidence, together with recognition of the fact that the Genocide Convention does apply retroactively, points to a finding that the Famine was, in fact, genocide.

There is now sufficient evidence to demonstrate Soviet intent under the Genocide Convention; that intent was to destroy a protected group in Ukraine. Raphael Lemkin describes the Soviet attack on Ukraine as “systematic,” detailing a three-front attack on the Ukrainian intelligentsia, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and the Ukrainian peasants. He notes that “Soviet writer Kosior declared in Izvestia on December 2, 1933, ‘Ukrainian nationalism is our chief danger,’ and it was to eliminate that nationalism, to establish the horrifying uniformity of the Soviet state that the Ukrainian peasantry was sacrificed.”

When information is documented and footnoted with a chain of research put before international bodies yes I accept it as factual. When the testimony of survivors is avaialble in digitized form and acceptably notorized yes I accept it. If everyone who does not conduct first person research into Holodomor denial as a profession is intellectually lazy then that charge it true. I will not stand by and allow someone to be an unchallenged denier of documented genocide.

Kosior was a fucking Ukrainian. Irony of ironies, he was rehabilitated by none other than Hrushchov. Guess where he was from? And he hated everything Stalin ever did, supposedly.

"Actually the evidence comes from now open Soviet era documents. "

Documents which I presented to you.

"This additional evidence, together with recognition of the fact that the Genocide Convention does apply retroactively, points to a finding that the Famine was, in fact, genocide."

Which is why nobody recognizes it as such, not even Ukraine. Brilliant.

The demographic evidence of the genocide is unquestioned. According to the census data furnished by the International Commission of Inquiry initiated by the World Congress of Free Ukrainians (WCFU) into the Famine of 1932-1933 in Ukraine, the number of Ukrainians in the USSR declined from 31,195,000 in 1926 to 28,111,000 in 1939[5] (in the same period, the number of Russians in the USSR increased from 77,791,000 to 99,591,000, while the number of Belarusians increased from 4,739,000 to 5,275,000).[6] In other words, during the time that the number of Russians increased by 28%, and the number of Belarusians by 11.2%, the number of Ukrainians decreased by 9.9%. Overall, the population of the USSR increased by 16%. Given this average increase, in 1939 the number of Ukrainians in the USSR should have been around 36,186,000. Thus, the decrease in the number of Ukrainians between 1926 and 1939 was about eight million people.

"I will not stand by and allow someone to be an unchallenged denier of documented genocide."

You better write a letter to the Ukrainian Prime Minister, and all the Ukrainian patriots families who fought against your pal, Hitler.

You also cite Lemkin, a guy who was a dignitary for the Polish fascism in the 1930s. A guy who thought the Soviet treatment of Nazi Pows amounted to genocide, and spent most of his time lobbying for Ukrainian nationalists.

Putin, it is a lie to post "noboby recognizes it as such (genocide) not even the Ukraine because Ukranian embassies all over Europe post statements about the Holodomor on their official embassy websites. Hee is a link to the Holodomor page of the Ukranian embassy in Belgium.
http://www.ukraine.be/belgium/en/publication/content/15721.htm

" Thus, the decrease in the number of Ukrainians between 1926 and 1939 was about eight million people."

That's your idea of research. Robert Conquest's infamous "census" routine. Nevermind that millions of Ukrainian Tartars were reclassified as Russians. And nevermind that the Ukrainian population increased by over 3 million from 1926-1939, even by your very own numbers.

I guess there was a genocide in Saskatchewan because in the 1930s, 25% of the population disappeared.

If someone throws a stick, you can be like a dog or like a lion. The dog runs after the stick; the lion jumps on the thrower.

Putin33 is a Serb, which says a lot about his feelings. Anyone familiar with Serbia knows that the Serbs (for historical and other reasons) are unconditional worshippers of Russia and everything Russian.

This is not about "Soviet" purges. It's about Putin33 being unable to accept that his beloved Russians committed genocide against Ukrainians. NOTHING you say will make him change his mind, so don't waste your time.

Hitler is no pal of mine and your stating that provides evidence of your attempting to throw out red herrings to distract attention from your denial of the Ukranian genocide. Here is the official statement of the President of Ukraine V.Yuschenko on the Holodomor. Here is the link to the statement from Ukraine's Belgium embassy. http://www.ukraine.be/belgium/en/announce/detail/194.htm?lightWords=Holodomor

Address by the President of Ukraine V.Yuschenko to the Ukrainians of
the World on the occasion of the commemoration of the 75th anniversary
of the Holodomor in 1932-1933


Dear Ukrainians of the world! Brothers and sisters!

These days Ukraine commences to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the Holodomor of 1932-1933.
The Holodomor was one of the most terrible humanitarian disasters in the history of mankind. As a result of deliberate and thoroughly planned policy of the totalitarian communist regime millions of our compatriots were killed. By its shocking scope it exceeds even the Ukrainian World War II death toll. We still feel the impact of this ruthless terror aimed at systemic extermination of the Ukrainian nation.
Totalitarian regime's actions call for the global condemnation. Ukrainian diplomats and Ukrainian communities abroad made major efforts for the recognition by the world community and international institutions of the Holodomor as genocide of the Ukrainian people. This work has to be advanced in a persistent and consistent way to bring across the world the truth about those evil times in full measure.
In every quarter of the world, where our community is present, the memory of innocent victims of the Holodomor must be preserved and revered. I urge you all to actively promote creation of information centres, study programs and exhibitions on the tragic events of 1932-1933.
In particular, I would like to address young Ukrainians around the world. I ask you to most actively respond to my call and form a sincere and ardent base of a great endeavour of revealing the truth about the Holodomor to the world.
Respectfully, I call upon Ukrainians of the world and all people of good will - regardless of their origin - to honour the memory of the Holodomor victims on November 24 by lighting the candles around the globe.
Carry these rays of truth to every nation and every land, and in November 2008 bring it as a unified candle back to Ukraine for it to become the eternal and unquenchable symbol of our sorrow over millions of our lost brothers and sisters, of our unity and our faith in unconquerable strength of the Ukrainian people.
Our duty is to unite our efforts and to do our utmost to ensure that these tragic events are never forgotten.
Ukraine remembers! The world acknowledges!

Putin, your lack of feeling for the victims of Stalin's Soviet Holodomor genocide will be met with fact after fact after fact.

Zmaj, I agree that I cannot change his mind, but the truth about the Holodomor is more powerful than his denial.

Emac, you're right, it's always a good thing to spread info about it. Keep it up, just don't get distracted by fanatics :)

"President of Ukraine V.Yuschenko"

Yushchenko! The guy who used Ukrainian fascists as his bodyguards during elections, and gave the "Hero of Ukraine" award to Roman Shukhevych.

Keep it coming, fascist troll.

I'm not a Serb. I asked Zmaj if he spoke Serbian, because his name means "snake" in Serbian. Very apropo.

Oh and Stepan Bandera, can't forget him.

Here is a link to a Youtube video in memory of perished in artificial hunger of 1932-33 in Ukraine, created by University of Cincinnati. So the University of Cincinnati is full of fascist trolls since they won't stand by while neo-communists deny the Holodomor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JAiUcqy3lM&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ukraine.be%2Fbelgium%2Fen%2Fannounce%2Fdetail%2F155.htm%3FlightWords%3DHolodomor

Talk about red herrings. Thanks for ignoring the fact that you cited a guy who links arms with Stepan Bandera & genocidaire Roman Shukhevych, you're really promoting the image that you 'care' about the victims of genocide.

How many more genocidaires are you going to cite in support of your smear campaign?

At that time I lived in the village of Yaressky of the Shishatsky district of the Poltava region. More than a half of the village population was perished as a result of the famine of 1933. It was terrifying to walk through the village: moaning and swollen people, the dying and the dead. The bodies of the dead were buried together, because there was no one to dig the graves. There were no dogs and no cats. People died at work; it was of no concern whether your body was swollen, whether you could work, whether you have eaten, whether you could – you had to go and work. Otherwise – you are the enemy of the people. Many people never lived to see the crops of 1933 and those crops were considerable. A more severe famine, other sufferings were awaiting ahead. Rye was starting to become ripe. Those who were still able made their way to the fields. This road, however, was covered with dead bodies, some could not reach the fields, some ate grain and died right away.
Аnd the patrol were hunting down, collecting everything, trampled down the collected spikelets, beat the people, came into their homes, seized everything. What they could not take – they burned.
(From the memories of Galina Mefodyivna Gubenko, born 1922, Poltava region).

Said by the man who bears the nick of the designer of the Chechen genocide.

What a horror. I've read some other accounts, they're all equally terrible, revealing a merciless slaughter machine. I'm sure glad I don't live in the neighborhood of Russia.