@Puddle - your comparison, by the way, between contraceptives and my individual wine every day was flawded in that you were comparing one person's consumption to society in general. The college girl can't be pregnant with thousands of babies a year, so her own subsidy of contraceptives is comparable to my subsidy of wine. If you look at it from a total market prospective, the two are comparable due to the boost to the wine economy I mentioned and the generally healthier population you get from the win consumption.

@Puddle -- two poitns I have made: One, Liberals apparently only have a sense of humor when liberals use humor...otherwise they apparently become brain dead to hyperbole and sarcasm...

Two: Government intervention in health care...hell, ANY health insurance system...so screws up the normal supply and demand curves that prices are guaranteed to go way out of whack.

In a PROPER health insurance system, premiums would be dramatically decreased (to cover catastrophic only, essentially) and all other care woudl be out of pocket, to force the consumer to engage in the cost structure and pick and choose the best price for desired quality. Instead, as it stands, anyone with health insurance and a low co-pay can go sit int he docs office for every scratch and smelly fart.

Draug for Secretary of the Winery in my Adminstration!!

@krellin - Taking wellness coverage out of the insurance product means a less healthy nation and a less healthy nation means lower productivity in *all* markets. There has to be a balance and the best way to do that is for insurance companies to A) compete and B) offer multiple products like the automotive industry. If you want catastrophic (aka major medical) coverage only, make that a cheap option. If you want a Corvette plan with full wellness and damn near free prescriptions, make that a premium and therefore more expensive plan. then the insurance companies can compete to offer more for less on the various plans just like the Corvette competes with the Viper.

But additionally, this whole idea that the states can control what plans are offered in their state and that insurance companies can be forbidden from selling in a given state is bullshit. It's a product and the states are interferring in interstate commerce. Treat insurance the same as any physical product and insurence agents the same as any store front. Progressive could be both an agent and offer products like Amazon is both a seller and offers their own products like the variou sKindles. It's easy to do, but the federal government and the states keep fucking it up.

@Draugnaur -- funny, Draugnar, because people are able to change the oil in their cars and rotate teh tires without automotive wellness insurance....but they are apparently too stupid and lazy to take care of their health, you say? And this is a problem for me how?
Besides, we are not talking about "wellness" coverage - we are talkig about blatant abuse by people that go to teh doctor whenver they feel for whatever they feel *because they can*. If you made gasoline free, people would drive like there was no tomorrow...a principle Liberals GET....which is why they want to drive up the cost of gasoline to lower it's usage. So...when you say health care is FREEEEEEeeeeeeeeee...the end result is excessive overuse, and dramatically higher costs. There is no rational control (rational as in MIND/THINKING...not rationing) in the system. Besides...the poor don't use it for wellchecks for their babies....they wait until their baby has a fever and then go to the emergency room -- pretty much the most expensive (but FRRRREEEEEEEEEEeeeeeee) path for them to get some Gov'mnt asprin...

Puddle,
I would respond to your supply and demand explanation but Krellin explained the difference well. He is right on point, anyway, have a nice time with your girl and please come back with another explanation for another economics lesson, I am still trying to learn from you but you only showed me anything a freshman or sophomore with an econ101 class can do. Easy to regurgitate a formula you learned in class but you need to think on your feet to apply it to a real work situation, health care is a great example and you will not be able to qualify as a logical subsidy but it will be fun watching you try.
I will give you a hint on an acceptable subsidy, "infrastruture", where am I going with this?

@FEFIANT....you know....by agreeing with me...you just ETERNALLY damned yourself. You know...because I am rational and logical and defy all selfish liberalism...

"because I am rational and logical and defy all selfish liberalism... "

Now you know why I am called DEFIANT.

Krellin, don't let them rattle you, you are correct and history is on your side. Puddle is an ideologue and that's ok, because he is in college, we all went through that, but once out you become a realist and its funny how they change once they have children and earn a salary with responsiblities, really does change your view on the world and politics.

@ Def....yeah....when they start to pay taxes, it is AMAZING how "free love....justice for all!!" becomes, "Get the fuck off my lawn...no I won't give you a dollar, bitch!!!"

TRUTH IN ACTION: "Occupy Walstreet" "protestors" often tried to force homeless people...the TRUE 1%ers...out of their camps when they asked for free food. lol

They're not all communists/anarchists/hippies, you know.

As a whole I don't disagree with anything Krellin as said, I do object to his manner, but not his points.

As far as what I would actually advocate for healthcare, which I don't believe I've yet stated, would be rather similar to what has already been said. High levels of competition among practitioners, maintained via government oversight to prevent price fixing or consolidation. Medical infrastructure such as hospitals, equipment and things of that nature subsidized or run by state-owned corporations similar to what we do with power and water (Natural monopolies that they are). Insurance beyond catastrophic coverage is detrimental to the system and should be phased out. This would keep prices low, quality high, and innovation rapid. Classic free market with government oversight to maintain the freedom of the market.

@Defiant, I think calling me an ideologue or talking down to me is uncivil. Is it really necessary?

thucydides, are the same thucydides from apolyton?

sorry, are you the same..............

No....it's actually the same Thucy that gave yo an anal exam....and took off the glove when you turned back to stare at the wall....

sorry...

@Puddle....dude...are you stealing my insurance thread from another thread while vaguely insulting me???? Bahhh....

Puddle,
I had no intention on talking down to you until you said you were going to give me a lesson in ecnomics and that I should just shut up, that is rude and uncivilized, if we can agree on that, hostilities can be avoided, right?

Jesus Puddle, I almost agree with your last post, that is rational. All I would add is very limited(practical) oversight. They(feds) have a tendency to want to control everything.

@Krellin, I'm not aware of the thread you are talking about, but it's not surprising we reached the same end, as any look at that market from a free market view point should get you to that end. No insult intended, just saying I wouldn't go about making your points in the same way that's all.

@Defiant, you are absolutely right, my apologies. Lets move forward in a more civil manner shall we? (How many ideologues would admit they were wrong or apologize for their wrongness on top of that? Haha :P )

@ Defiant, yes but unfortunately there isn't anyone else who can really fill that role. Any ideas for how to combat that effect? I'm sure a working solution can be reached.

Krellin. i didn't say free. i just said wellness coverage. there are still copays and deductibles to be paid.

Oh and an oil change costs 50 bucks but an A1C tests costs 500 or more. Big tucking difference.

@Puddle, no ideologues that I know of bud. I don't think there is much more to discuss, I kind of agree with your last post, you almost sound, should I say it, conservative. ;)

Oh look... krellin got himself a boyfriend. go get a room you two.

Draug...there was only one room left, and after you and Fredrico left it last night...they said they needed two days to sanitize.

DAYYYYY-ummm.....way to go, bitch!

BTW, did you treat that lady right? Thursday night, when I was in college this was the big party night, what are you doing talking to us slugs tonight, you should be out enjoying the evening with her.

@Draugnar....No offense...but you hve NO IDEA what "wellness" visits to a regular doc mean versus "babeeeee got a feeever" visits mean to the emrgency room by ignorant fucks that cost the health care system ealiy 10 times the cost.

I know your situation...which is why I say that when you know JACK SHIT about raising kids, and wellness cost... I MEAN you know jack shit.

Draugnar, if you are referring to me, you can kiss my great white american a............................................................................................

Theory sounds legit.

Puddle,
No there is no other entity that can fill that role, I believe in a central gov't for obvious reasons that you stated, but just very limited, with mostly House oversight, since that is the closest we have to a true representation to the values of the citizens.
Insurance companies are ok, but some have slugs at the helm and they will take advantage of people, we have to protect those people and it is either state or fed, fed has to be the one because of multiple state incidents that could be involved in such an action(if an insurance company is screwing customers over).