@YJ - You clearly don't agree with Putin. If Putin had his way, all religions would be banned. They would be outlawed and anyone who dared to practice the free exercise thereof even in his own home would be executed.

And semck83 has it exactly right. Students on higher degrees (Putin is a fucking grad student, despite his claims, unless he graduated) are on a path out of working class. I worked my way through college as well. Worked at Waldenbooks, radio Shack, and doing private security/rent a cop work to pay for school. I was never working class because I was working to further myself, not just survive. So no, one may *not* be working class and a student. A student is working to better themselves, not maintain the status quo. That isn't an insult to the students, it's just a fact and it especially applies to grad students, like Putin.

Oh, and Putin, did you graduate? Or did they kick you out?

"Oh, and Putin, did you graduate? Or did they kick you out?"

Fuck you.

And your assessment of the financial/class mobility of adjunct professors is woefully misinformed, but this is typical. There is a large-scale scheme of proletarianizing academia which is going on, turning us all into temp workers.

And anyway, my own career is irrelevant. The is relevant is the class composition of the overall party governing, and it is always working class-led.

"fuck you."

Yep, they kicked him out ;P

But I've never heard Putin saying religion should be banned. Have I?

"There is a large-scale scheme of proletarianizing academia which is going on, turning us all into temp workers."

That, at least, is true. Full time tenured professorships are increasingly difficult to come by, especially in the liberal arts and in smaller universities.

Professors working class? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Really Putin? I'm supposed to think they cust their asses for 20-40K a year? I can't say for certain what a prof makes, but I can say he doesn't bust his or her ass. Where are the bleeding knuckles? The callused hands? The aching bodies they breakdown before retirement? *That* is working class. Someone sitting behind a desk and dolling out grades ain't doing fucking shit.

And no, I'm not working class either. I wouldn't even dream of comparing the mental labors I do for 6 figures a year to some poor slob who comes home with a $600 a week take home and just wants to relax and have a beer with his buddies while he bowls avery Friday night.

They cut off my funding due to budget cuts, and while Draugnar continually claims I'm living off some trust fund, like all grad students apparently, I had to find other work to pay my loans and other bills. So again, Draugnar can go to hell.

There is a big push making full time software developers a thing of the past as well. Most companies are going to consultants to get the job done. That doesn't make us any more working class than part time professors. It's not how much you make, but how you make it. working class means they labor for their income. Professors and programmers, we don't do shit physically and are whtie collar employees. Working class is blue collar labor.

lol $600 a week? That's actually pretty good money for an entry level working class guy, Draug. I barely made half that much when I was a 9-5er.

"Professors working class? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!"

That's not what I said fuckwit.

"Someone sitting behind a desk and dolling out grades ain't doing fucking shit."

You grade 50 6-7 page term papers in 2 days, fuckface.

Dag, Draug, you're really getting under his skin.

"Budget cuts"... uh huh. If you believe Putin's funding was actually cut off at OSU due to "budget cuts" (remember, this is Ohio State University we are talking about) then I got this poker game in my basement waiting for you to join us. I could use the influx of cash.

Putin, dude, I don't feel sorry for you at all. I'm sure the cuts were made purely randomly and *not* because you provoked someone into getting rid of you.

And you are still *not* blue collar/working class. When she worked, Mrs. Draugnar was working class. She was a nurses aide in a nursing home and came home every night stiff and sore and tired and for what? $100 a day take home. *That's* working class.

So by your standards "It's not how much you make, but how you make it. working class means they labor for their income.", a professional athlete that comes home from practice or a game every day and must take an ice bath to be able to walk normally is working class?

@Putin - And you write a software Proof of Concept that should taker 6 weeks in three days, getting virtually zero sleep the entire time. It's still isn't working class. Did you get a fucking splinter in your finger? Or maybe a papercut? Again, until you come home with your body aching like my wife used to do and like the folks on the floor in the factories where our configuration and sales order product is installed do, you aren't wormking class. All you are is a fucking whiny little bitch who is pissed at the world and afraid of what the future holds for such a pissant as yourself.

I really don't care what you believe, you're a dermoid cyst of a human being. Gordon Gee and his corporate pals came in here and reformed how departments got funding, centralizing control of department funding in the hands of college deans Political science & social sciences in general got hit hard by the new formula.

"She was a nurses aide in a nursing home and came home every night stiff and sore and tired and for what? $100 a day take home. "

I work with 5-7 year olds who are violent and when they're not violent, require me cleaning up their shit and urine, go fuck yourself.

"All you are is a fucking whiny little bitch who is pissed at the world and afraid of what the future holds for such a pissant as yourself."

You're the clown who always needs to dig into people's personal background in order to win an e-debate. You're the worst kind of online troll. A stalker.

Do we need to call Dr. Phil, or is this already to the level of Springer?

@Nike - good point. Maybe I shouyld clarify that a little better. If you have a contract (personally, not union), or a salary, you aren't working class. If you don't physically labor, you aren't working class. If you make more than 6 figures a year, you aren't working class. I'm disqualified under all three. Professors are disqualified on the second one, pro athletes on the thrid. Minor league athletes can be working class (those in leagues like the Frontier League). They bust their ass for 30-40k a year if they are lucky and many of them work hard laborious jobs in the off season to make ends meet.

Whatever else is going on, academia IS really fxxed up right now.

If even the hard sciences are feeling the squeeze, I can only imagine what it must be like as a grad student in other disciplines.

Again, Draug, I don't think 40K a year is working class. That's almost $20.00 an hour if you're @ 40/week.

Draugnar is arguing with a phantom. I never said students were 'working class' (although my family is all working class). He is trying to as nasty and personal as possible, because it's Draugnar, he doesn't know any better.

@Putin - 5-7 year olds who aren't potty trained? Must be working with the mentally disabled. But even still, that hardly equates to the guy hanging off the edge of a skyscraper-in-progress or a fireman going into a burning house or a policeman getting shot at by some lowlife drug dealer. So you had some smelly stinky shit to deal with. So what?

"Must be working with the mentally disabled."

Which is what I had indicated, if you had bothered to read for once.

"So you had some smelly stinky shit to deal with. So what?"

It's what nurses and nurse techs do. You seem to think they do physical labor. Please continue arguing whatever is convenient at the moment.

@YJ - It's not even double minimum wage. It is most definitely working class.

Wages have nothing to do with class.

@Putin - Try again. Nursing homes have more than the stinky shit going down. Try moving a 300 lb invalid to change their sheets. That is the physical labor. You deal with a bunch of kids.

I will say, however, that if that is your only income, you are officially working class. But considering before this thread, I thought you were still a grad student and TA. And that, despite your claims, is not working class. When you rbiggest realistic physical danger comes from a stapler, pencil, or papercut, you are *not* working class.

I never thought this would happen, but from personal experience I can defend at least three of Putin's assertions. The first is that yes, there are budget cuts. The California State Colleges and Universities had 20% of their funding cut for this current academic year, laying off many college teachers (lecturers, professors, and everything in between) and putting kids like my daughter in two different 500-plus student classes with senior professors who aren't used to teaching undergraduates and often aren't very GOOD at it....

"Wages have nothing to do with class."

What, then, determines class, other than how much money one makes?

Thank you for clarifying, but what about a truck driver? They sit all day, but keep our economy moving (literally). Other than under your definition, they are accepted as working class.