"And....for the record....I once **knew** a girl that hung herself in the public park....
...I would have much rather that she beat the shit out of her bully than hang herself.... "

I'd probably hang myself too if I had the misfortune of knowing you in real life...

Hate speech!

ROTFLMFAO.

George Orwell, meet Mafiafaggygator.

Abge -- I have since replied to your nonsense. You apparently don't grasp the very basic defintiion of "communication". but...that is defined in the other thread. And....yes....technically speaking you bullied me here to get a response elsewhere. It's ironic....predictable...and disgusting, since I imagine you to be quite a heart-felt liberal on the subject of bullying....since you are such a suck-up ass when you coddle people such as pervert-boy Conservative Man, whom you think needs nurturing, instead of a swift kick in the ass.

I lose respect for you every time I see you post, abge. I think you are a fair moderator....but you real world beliefs....make me want to puke sometimes.

Abge -- by the way....I see you didn't have the balls to comment on my comments about THIS thread on this thread....<sigh...> Sad.

It's OK. Under that hard, crass shell, I know you like me. : )

Ahhh...abge....I don't hate you. You just disappoint me. Inside, I grasp that you are intelligent. But....upon observation....you are a good, thougtful liberal who doesn't yet taxes. You think humanity is good. blah blah blah. You still believe you professors that haven't done research in 20 years and think they represent modern science. Yeah....been there and done that, kid. Trust me. I once cried on the way home from college when I saw the "devestation upon the world" the cities wrecked upon nature....

Now I have a family to care for, and I pay taxes, and....and....and....and my views of the world have changed drastically from the time that I was a College Democrats Officer-At-Large....So I have faith that maybe, someday, you education and logic will overcome your emotional response to the world...

Actually, I do pay taxes.

Also, my professors are actively involved in research. I just submitted a paper with my advisor and we're working on another.

Furthermore, I'd hardly call myself a democrat; I think (for the most part) they're slightly better than republicans, but I don't agree with all (or even most) of what they say.

Funny watching Krellin trying to elevate his prose. Reminds me of Charlie from Always Sunny.

And the loons arrive and the conversation goes to pot as usual. *Sigh* Well we had a few hours of real discussion. Oh well.

It was done, no worries, unless anyone wants to try to add something new and we can easily avoid the one "loon" that crashed the party

In reply to the opening post. I was wondering the very same question myself this morning. The Today Show (in Melbourne) aired a story about a 14 yo boy who had identified himself on youtube as bi-sexual but then later had committed suicide. Lady Gaga (the boy was a big fan) honored him in one of her concerts, which was a touching gesture by Lady Gaga, but I couldn't help but wonder if the impact of this would be the opposite of her intentions. That by raising this boy to a tragic hero - she could inadvertently encourage other disaffected youth to take a similar path.

I don't think anyone wants to be a 'tragic hero'. Memorializing people does not lead others to want to die. I mean what is the alternative to memorializing and pointing this out? Ignoring it? This is a deflection from the real problem.

I don't really know Putin. I recall many years ago a free lance journalist friend of mine wrote a piece on suicide for national magazine. One year later he planned to write a follow-up piece but he was told by the magazine that after receiving professional advice that they had changed their policy and would no longer publish such articles ad it had been found that the suicide rate went up following such publicity. Now I don't know what the current scientific opinion is, but I can see how this could be plausible.
Do we have any shrinks on this site who might know?

This article discusses a possible link between the media and suicide:
http://www.mindframe-media.info/site/index.cfm?display=84352

@ spyamn, I assume you're talking about Jamey Rodemeyer?
And I have to say having heard a lot about this story, I feel confident in saying that his suicide had a lot more to do with his tormentors who it is worth pointing out, began chanting at his bereaved sister and friends during a school event things like "We're glad he's dead." and "Everyone's much happier now that he killed himself." than with media coverage of teen suicide. I mean, that is some Westboro Baptist Church shit right there.

Yes that is the kid. I wasn't suggesting that *his* suicide was linked to media coverage rather my question my question is would other suicides be more likely because of coverage of his suicide?
That is extraordinary about "the chanting at his bereaved sister". What is wrong with some people? I can sort of understand why some people act like that online where they can be anonymous (like those people who deface facebook tribute pages ) as they can remain anonymous (these people are not normal empathetic people either), but I would have though normal social conventions would prevent the type of behavior. Unfortunately people who post twisted comments on place like youtube and facebook seem to enjoy the negative publicity.

My point, which I feel may have been lost in the above post, is that in the case of like suicide bullying if I may coin a term, we tend to think, "Oh so what? I got called a nerd lots in school too!" But I think incidents like this show us that on some level things are going on that go far beyond run of the mill bullying. And invoking all these other things like media influence and glorification of suicide aren't really necessary to explain teen suicide, particularly LGBT teen suicide, when you look at the kind of bullying going on, to people who are ALREADY at high risk for suicide.

At the risk of sounding naive, I mean, the outpouring of compassion, and support for Jamey and his family, in the face of that kind of absolute dickishness, might also show someone considering suicide how many people really are on their side. I dunno, I suppose it could go either way.

krellin has got a point about anti-bullying assemblies. He's also got a point about bullies being around forever. The only way to stop a bully is to give him a taste of his own medicine. Letting ten kids corner him and beat the shit out of him is a little extreme, but it's better than rewarding him with a three-day-out-of-school suspension.

Offer an extracurricular program for bullied kids and teach them self defense, under the supervision and direction of a football or wrestling coach. If you have a group of bullied kids, encourage them to stick together and protect each other.

I talked to a gay kid who had problems with bullies, and he said that he solved the problem by hanging out with other gay guys who didn't take shit from anyone, and no one ever messed with them because they stuck together. They weren't queer for each other. They just got sick of taking homophobic shit from their peers.

Why can't all bullied kids do that? Teach them how to fight, and encourage them to stick with other bullied kids. Problem solved. Besides, it only requires one good ass-kicking. Kick a bullies' ass, and any other bullies will leave you and your friends alone.

this simplified "if they fight back it will end" thing is bullshit. You are assuming that the kid who is getting bullied has the ability to make fast friends, oftentimes those that are bullied do not have that skill. You are assuming that fighting will solve a problem, I don't care how much judo you know, if you are getting trounced by 6 kids bigger than you it wont help, and, as is often the case, if you are alienated from your peers anyway due to past treatment violence could lead to only more violence against me. I want to see these studies where if you kick a bullies ass he will leave you alone. I know I when I was very young I fought back against a neighborhood bully and it didn't stop him at all and wouldn't stop until I had a growth spurt and was bigger than him. Later in High School there was this kid with a bad napoleon complex who started shit with everyone, a real bully. He didn't necessarily bully me, we only had one run in, but he got up in my face at a party for nothing. He had 3 guys with him so I walked away and felt like a punk for months until he did this to another guy at another party and when the dude fought back dipshit pulled out a knife and stabbed the kid. Is violence against such a whackjob always the answer? If I had been your bullied kid turned-rambo and fought back I would have probably had a knife sticking out of me. Its this folksy conservative bullshit that all bullies are the same and can be fought the same way. Prove it.

And one other thing. You are assuming the bullying is physical. Alot of the bullying that leads to these suicides are not physical. It is emotional abuse from a large group that is backed up with threats of physicality but no physical attack. You tell a kid to punch any kid that bullies him he'll have a quick ticket out of school. Again you'll counter with "If he punches one kid they'll all stop" And again Ill ask for proof. In my experience from watching bullying in Middle/High School bullies wait for a bullied kid to lash out and find it hilarious and it often encourages them to poke the poor sombitch some more to make it happen again.

The mental aspect of bullying tends to get overlooked a lot, as well. I mean, I'm a huge guy, even as a kid, I towered over the majority of my classmates. But I still got bullied. Mostly in the form of being ostracised from... well, everyone. Then, my point earlier about how teachers stepping in to 'make it better' comes into play. When you're already feeling ostracised from the rest of your peers, an adult stepping in is only going to draw more attention to your being alone, or being different.

Darwin.

he's right, it's better to do nothing...

That advice all falls back to "Don't start a fight, but don't walk away from one either". If the bullying gets physical, kids should defend themselves. If the bullying is mental/emotional, a quick-witted retort will bring most bullies to their knees. After all, they are usually picking on something different that actually scares them and makes them feel inferior. Teach our children to retunr verbal fire with fire so they can school the bullies.

@ SantaClausowitz

"You are assuming that the kid who is getting bullied has the ability to make fast friends"

They do not have to be friends. I'm assuming that there is more than one bullied student per school. Team up for mutual protection. Two (or more) kids is better than one. Besides, the bullied kids probably have enough in common to develop a friendship.They could possibly meet in the hypothetical self defense class I talked about earlier.

"I don't care how much judo you know, if you are getting trounced by 6 kids bigger than you it wont help"

Yeah, but what if you bring six of your own friends?

"I want to see these studies where if you kick a bullies ass he will leave you alone."

You and I both know that there are no statistics or studies to back up either of our arguments. The best either of us can do is anecdotal evidence.

"I know I when I was very young I fought back against a neighborhood bully and it didn't stop him at all and wouldn't stop until I had a growth spurt and was bigger than him."

You obviously did not fight back successfully until you had your growth spurt.

"Is violence against such a whackjob always the answer?"

Of course not. Violence is not always the answer. I never claimed that fighting back worked against every bully or worked in every situation. I just proposed the idea as a partial solution.

"Its this folksy conservative bullshit that all bullies are the same and can be fought the same way."

Where did conservatism come into it? Stop the name calling. I'll bet there's more than one liberal on here that agrees with me when I say that physical self defense could be a partial solution.

"Prove it."

You know I can't. You can't prove your points either.

"You are assuming the bullying is physical"

I'm not assuming anything. Like I said, physical self defense is a potential partial solution. Physical self defense could be also used against emotional or mental harassment. If some gay kid is tired of a bully calling him all sorts of homophobic words that I won't care to list, then the gay kid should be able to beat him up a little. Or find some more physically capable people who don't like those words to do it for him.

"You tell a kid to punch any kid that bullies him he'll have a quick ticket out of school."

That's a problem. We shouldn't punish kids for sticking up for themselves, especially when the school administration has proven that it is not capable of sticking up for kids.

"Again you'll counter with "If he punches one kid they'll all stop""

I'm not going to counter with that. Please don't take me for a fool. I really don't know why you have a problem with me, Santa. I didn't make this argument personal. You did. Why do you have a problem with me? I'm just an anonymous diplomacy player.

"In my experience from watching bullying in Middle/High School bullies wait for a bullied kid to lash out and find it hilarious and it often encourages them to poke the poor sombitch some more to make it happen again."

Let's teach them to lash out more effectively. Let's teach them to lash out when they've got people to back them up.

They put one of yours in the hospital, you put one of theirs in the morgue. That's the schoolyard way.

Bullshit, I mean, *Bullying* laws are a joke.

As a recent high school student, I can tell you old geizers that bullying, at least in my school, doesn't happen.

Everyone gets made fun of at some point. Tragic as it may be that kids have killed themselves, if your thought process is feel bad, feel bad the text day, kill yourself, you have bigger problems than being made fun of.

I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but that's not rational thinking.

^Exhibit A: A clear example of a bully. He insults his elders by calling them geezers then basically says the kids should get a thicker skin. He will have a rude awakening when he either gets his ass kicked for smarting off to the wrong person or gets fired for being abusive.to and harassing a coworker.