@Thucy - she is a confirmed prostitute. She has performed tricks before. That makes her a whore. Like it or not we are all judged based on our prior actions. The fact that she is claiming she isn't one... Well, who wouldn't deny the allegation, true or not?

But I will back off and reserve judgment. That truth will come out seeing as she has sued the NY Post. I can't wait for the truth to be revealed about her past and then... oh wait! She suddenly will drop the lawsuit!

Only time will tell...

As for the UMP first reporting the story, Jonathan Pinet (a UMP partisan) was the first one to report this story (via twitter). Pinet happens to have an undying hatred for DSK. He tweeted DSK's arrest well before any media reported it. Pinet said DSK was arrested at a hotel, when was arrested at an airport, and said that a "friend" told him about it less than 20 minutes after it happened, via facebook. So Pinet has friends working at the same hotel that DSK was staying in. One of Pinet's twitter followers is Arnaud Dassier, who is a Sarkozy campaign worker who was behind the release of the porsche photos. Dassier asked Pinet for details on the twitter page, and Pinet replied that it was "serious".

http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2011/05/15/comment-un-tweet-seme-le-doute-sur-l-arrestation-de-dsk_1522366_823448.html

this is exasperating. we really do live in a rape culture. i dont have much else to say.

dsk aside, guilty or innocence aside, the way we in this country and in the world society treat rape is truly frightening. i am glad but also ashamed i am not a woman.

I agree we have a rape culture. That's what makes false accusations of rape so cynical and so horrible, because it leads to people like Draugnar.

Wasn't there a story about the Rock breaking a big story over Twitter a few months ago? In an interconnected world like we have now this stuff's just going to happen.

At any rate, this Pinet is just a half-Canadian student at some university in Paris. He was 21 at the time. I see online that he's a supporter of the UMP. Nothing about working for the party or anything like the nebulous term "partisan." Wouldn't about half the people in the country be supporters of the UMP?

This seems more like a weird coincidence than a plot. Why would Sarko have some 21 year old break the story rather than, say, France24? You have fallen into the typical conspiracy theorist trap, Putin33, of championing every little bit of information, no matter how small, that supports what you're saying as proof of the conspiracy, while ignoring any information and logical analysis which doesn't support it.

You are Darwyn. This is your moon landing conspiracy.

Excuse me? I am pointing out that in this *singular* instance, there are doubts as to the veracity of the "rape". I have known a number of rape victims (no ad hominems please, putin) having done consulting for several advocacy groups and shelters and she did not act like any of the real victims I ever met. And while there is no one way a victim acts, there are certain patterns can be found one way or the other. Some clam up and go into a shell. Others fidn their voice and decide to take matters into their own hands. But I've never met one yet who just went about her job and reported it later.

Now, I was all anti-DSK when it first came out and felt bad for the poor young woman. I was glad to see DSK didn't get preferential treatment just because he was wealthy and that his inital attempt at diplomatic uimmunity faile d(something which is a bullshit claim anyhow). But then the stories came out about *her* actions and prior daliances into the realm of prostitution, stories which have yet to be disproved, stories that provide serious doubt about the veracity of her claims. So now, I have to evaluate both sides of this and try to find a logical conclussion as to what happened. DSK never denied the sex. He said it was consentual. She said ti wasn't. I thikn it was a little of both. She wanted the cash and he, in his smug, arrogant, "African's are inferior" mindset decided not to pay her.

But time will tell and the real truth will come out.

We have another obvious conspiracy on our hands

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/07/26/us/politics/AP-US-Wu-Sex-Scandal.html?_r=1&emc=na

David Wu is the leading vocal critic of China, and stood up to the tech companies in his district by voting against favorable chinese trade agreements. Now he is being accused of "unwanted sexual advances" and being forced to step down. All a little *too* convenient don't you think?

"1 - She 'mistakenly' entered a room that was occupied in a $3,000 a night hotel. Do hotel cleaners knock before entering?"
I've had knocks at a hotel that I didn't hear - and the maid enter the room before I knew he/she was there. I don't see what the cost of the room has to do with anything.

"We're to believe DSK had all of his belongings hidden from view, didn't answer the knock (if there was one) and then jumped out to attack her from the bathroom."
He was packing to go- belongings hidden from view (if that was the case) is not surprising.

"2 - The case wasn't immediately reported to hotel security, evidently, and DSK was allowed to leave without any problem."
Yes - I addressed this in my previous post. Delay in reporting rape is entirely normal. Entirely.

"3 - DSK was evidently in no rush to leave, as he went for a lunch meeting after the incident. So DSK had time to pack his things, check out, have a lunch meeting, go to the airport, go through security, and board a plane before NYPD arrested him."
Due to rape culture (and yes, I do believe it has a huge affect on, you know... rape) he likely didn't even see it as rape. Maybe still doesn't. After all, he is apparently quite "the ladies man" with many "conquests" to his name. If "no means yes" - as it does for many men and some women then he was just having "a bit of fun"... and probably didn't think twice about it.

"4 - DSK called the hotel..."
Again, same answer... he probably didn't think he did anything wrong.

"5 - The accuser went to clean another room after the incident."
1) That is her job to clean rooms, 2) it is very common for rape victims to clean up (including taking a shower) before reporting... this does not mean that she was trying to erase evidence (though that is admittedly a possibility) - it is entirely consistent that she simply was disgusted and was cleaning up before she realized that she wouldn't be able to simply forget about it and she needed to report the attack.

"6 - The accuser normally did not clean DSK's floor but volunteered for that floor when a co-worker went on leave. "
Taking someone's shift/work for pay? What could possibly motivate a poor working woman to do that?

"7 - NYPD said DSK chased accuser down the hall. No other workers collaborate that story."
No witness other than the victim. Unfortunate, but not surprising. I've heard people run down the halls of a hotel before and even fighting happen - and ignored it figuring it to not be anything serious (no cries for help). This is not a surprise. Besides, if these are $3,000 rooms, I imagine they are rather sound proof... but then, I wouldn't know.

"8 - NYPD said accuser reported crime to front desk. All other workers say interviews took place on floor of attack."
Crime reported and interview took place are two different things. Besides, reporting it doesn't mean she slogged down there in person, does it? She likely had a radio (they often do in nicer hotels at least) and there are phones, you know.

"9 - How, without an arrest warrant, did they manage to hold up a plane in order to make DSK's arrest?"
That I don't know... but I'm sure it is known how they did that. I'm sure the question came up, in other words... and there was a reasonable answer. Besides, they could detain him while the arrest warrant is secured. Also - don't people get arrested all the time without a written warrant?? He had just left the scene of a crime and, to the police's view, could have been seen as fleeing... being detained in that situation isn't surprising. I believe that police have wide latitude when it comes to a suspect fleeing. (see also: car chases)

"10 - The accuser is 6' tall and 200 pounds. DSK is not that large of a man, so how did he drag her from room to room?"
A valid question that should come up in a trial. Fear and panic can make someone weak, he could have had a hold on her - her hair or a twisted arm for example, 200 pounds does not mean she was strong... and besides, it could have even started out "consensual" but once she says for it to stop (say after some of the violence) and he doesn't it becomes rape.

---
"is rape culture the answer to every anomaly?"
No. But I think there should be a trial. Bruising of the vagina, claims of violence and forced sexual acts each should be enough to have a trial. The fact that hearsay and circumstantial evidence against her purity of character is enough to have people argue for the case to be dropped is evidence of rape culture.

Right, so that crap earlier about how you were asking "honest questions" is just your usual pretending to be reasonable song and dance. You're bent on hammering me with the "you're equivalent to a Nazi sympathizing Holocaust denier" meme, no matter what I say and no matter what the evidence.

The fact that Arnaud Dassier's (Sarko's 2007 online campaign manager) newspaper (which he founded - Atlantico), released the porsche photos is not in dispute. The fact that Dassier is friends with Pinet is not in dispute. But this is a moon landing, of course, because it couldn't possibly be the case that UMP activists want to destroy Sarko's political opponent. They would want higher ups doing the dirty work, for whatever reason. Just like how Nixon wanted "higher ups" like Cuban gusanos to break into the Watergate.

" I have known a number of rape victims (no ad hominems please, putin)"

I thought you blocked me, coward?

Generic voters for the UMP don't become members of the Jeune Populaire and write popular blogs attacking socialist politicians. Surely you know the difference between being a supporter and being an activist, but you're going to pretend there's no difference because it fits your "moon landing" narrative.

as far as breaking the story so quickly... I understand from a story I just heard days ago (in reference to the American election cycle that has begun) that it is commonplace now for candidates to have the other candidates followed and watched full-time (like paparazzi), looking to record any gaffe or anything they could use against them.

@Thucydides, you said: "i am glad but also ashamed i am not a woman." I hope you don't mind me asking, but why would you say that? There should be no shame in who you are.

@Putin - I have to hit escape every time I want to read and post here so the javascript doesn't block the entire thread.

@others - I'm all for his still standing trial. I want the truth to come out. I just question how much of his side and how much of her side is the truth. Both of them seem to have a knack for prevarication on some level.

Well I expected the usual suspects would be falling over yourselves trying to explain away every anomaly and shout "Sicarius!/Darwyn!" endlessly if that didn't work. Thanks for being so predictable.

Well I expected Putin to take a bunch of faint, circumstantial evidence and try to craft a vast conspiracy and call us every name in the book if we dared disagree with him. Thanks for being so predictable.

What name did I call you? Francophobe? You even admitted to hating the French public. Making stuff up while whining about conspiracy theories is a bit rich.

Putin, I'm more than happy to agree with you... you know, when I agree with you. We often *do* agree... but this is silly. Yes, there could theoretically be a conspiracy - so what. The points you have for this are completely explainable by other, simpler, more logical means. Yes there are patterns... but only if you squint your eyes a bit and ignore the things that don't fit the patterns and you confuse opportunism by DSK's political enemies with conspiracy. (see again 9/11 truthers)

No, your explanations are not simpler or more plausible. It amounts to you never ever wanting to believe a rape accusation could ever possibly be false, especially if it's against someone who is rich and supposedly influential. I'm sympathetic to that impulse, but don't pretend your story is more plausible and that somehow your version isn't full of squinting and ignoring inconvenient facts.

'It amounts to you never ever wanting to believe a rape accusation could ever possibly be false, especially if it's against someone who is rich and supposedly influential."

Funny I read this guy who named himself after a Russian Politician claim that the impulse to blame Strauss came from his French identity.

@dexter

it's not that i am not happy to be a man, it is that i am sometimes ashamed that i am so often by virtue of demographics a member of the oppressing class by default.

what that sentence was trying to express is this:

1. it is better in this world to be a man than a woman
2. i am glad i am man because of this
3. but i am also ashamed that i am glad to be a man because it is better, because it should not be better, and thus i should have no reason to feel glad

know what i mean?

same goes for being rich or white or american or whatever.

Thucy is ahsamed he is part of the bourgeoisie and not part of the proletariat and he is even more ashamed that he is happy he is so bourgeois.

"Funny I read this guy who named himself after a Russian Politician claim that the impulse to blame Strauss came from his French identity."

What? You're becoming more incomprehensible by the day. What are you saying here and why do you have nothing better but to point out my username? Are you suggesting Putin is anti-French? Or Russians are anti-French?

@Putin, I haven't convicted DSK for rape. It is possible that he's not guilty. People have recanted rape testimony and have also sometimes identified the wrong person as the perp. Your assertion that I "never ever" want to believe a rape accusation could ever be possibly be false is based on one case. Yes, him being rich provides a motive for a false accusation. But him being rich and powerful also provides a disincentive for her ever reporting it... and for people (including you) ever believing it.

It's like evolution and religion. I see a complex situation which is explainable without bringing in outside factors such as an international conspiracy - complex because of differing motivations and mindsets of the accused and the victim and such things as DSK likely being followed and watched. You say, ah, but it's far too complex to be accounted for by the known players... we must have an intelligent designer behind this thing here. It is *far* too complex for it to have been arrived at naturally. Yes, I admit, that a conspiracy/designer is theoretically *possible* and I ask for actual evidence - not just motivation for the enemies of DSK, but actual evidence. Not surprisingly, you (and the rest of us) don't have it. You see evil plan, I see happy accident (from the perspective of his political opponents). Provide something that could *only* have been a result of a conspiracy by his political opponents and you'll have my attention. Until then, I'm much more likely to believe the he said consensual she said rape, that is so common in our culture. If you were born 110 plus years ago, you'd be screaming "Remember the Maine!" Selective speculation and connection of motivation to result does not a conspiracy make. A coming before B and A wanting B to happen does not mean that A caused B... especially when X causes B all the time, and X was present.

"What? You're becoming more incomprehensible by the day. What are you saying here and why do you have nothing better but to point out my username? Are you suggesting Putin is anti-French? Or Russians are anti-French?"

Maybe you just cant read. it wasnt the clearest sentence but anyone who took a second to read it would understand, no worries I see you are trying to feign a lack of comprehension to make me look stupid. In case you really didn't understand (you did) you stated before that the only possible reason we would have suspected DSK is because he is French. Then later you go back and say, low and behold, that perhaps his statis as an influential person, rather than a frenchman had something to do with it.

I've found it interesting to follow this story, not in the details but in the broad narrative that has been drawn around it. When it first broke it was a story about a poor, hardworking immigrant to America victimized by a nasty, French socialist, while she was just trying to carve out her own little corner of the American Dream. Then suddenly it turns out there are slightly "unsavoury" aspects to her life, and all of a sudden the story in broad strokes is, a black criminal making false accusations against an innocent not-really-all-that-socialist (there is sadly, no getting around his unfortunate nationality) white man. (For the record that is not actually my view of the story, I'm just somewhat sarcastically paraphrasing the way the story has evolved in the public eye.)

I'll be honest, this whole affair reeks of privilege, racism and sexism, and I kind of expected better from you Putin, I thought you'd recognize the warning signs. We can point to holes in her story all we want, but the main reason why the maid's story isn't being entirely believed is because of her association with criminals and her own shady dealings. The case is being dropped because a poor and marginalized woman had to resort to illegal means to make ends meet. We're vilifying her because she hangs out with drug dealers and such (unlike all the other poor Guinean immigrants who associate only with middle class suburban families).
And even when you read about this case it's disgusting how she's been pushed aside. How many people in this thread know that she associates with drug dealers? How many know that she helped launder money for them? How many have heard the allegations of prostitution? Now, how many of you know her name? I didn't. I had to look it up on Wikipedia. Go to the article called "Dominique Strauss-Kahn sexual assault case". How far down did you have to scroll to find her name, which is incidentally Nafissatou Diallo. I'm getting side tracked. This isn't entirely relevant. I'm just very disturbed, though not at all surprised to discover just how much issues of power and marginalization have impacted this case. As far as I'm concerned, the fact that a white man can get off of a rape accusation just because of who his accuser is, is a much bigger, more disturbing story than one politician lying to fuck around with another one.

you really are a nasty nasty person Putin

@Thucydides, I see what you're saying - thanks for explaining. As a white American male from a middle class background I can relate. Perhaps it is like survivor's guilt - as well as guilt by association. One good thing is that it puts us in a position where we have influence that we wouldn't have if we were a poor third-world minority woman - or any one or more of those. I liken it to political change... where it is often helpful to have not only revolutionaries storming the gates, but also people on the inside pushing for change, educating the other privileged people they know, and opening the gates as much as they can.

I still haven't been provided an actual answer to what would count as "actual evidence" for you. The comparison to creationism is not valid. Creationists simply argue that creation is logically necessary but can't point to any trace of god whatsoever and have a multitude of anomalies that the bible got wrong to explain away. But I have provided a bunch of evidence here, which you dismiss as circumstantial but in any world but webdip would count as actual evidence. You want a smoking gun. A Sarkozy or UMP party order to frame DSK or whatever. Most judicial cases rarely have smoking guns, and it wouldn't take a smoking gun to convict DSK.

" Provide something that could *only* have been a result of a conspiracy by his political opponents and you'll have my attention."

You demand the highest threshold of evidence and taunt me when it can't be achieved. How is this kind of evidence even possible, even in known criminal conspiracies? There are always "alternative hypotheses" which can't be 100% ruled out, especially in judicial cases.

It's odd that in fact your attitude towards evidence is akin to what creationists always do with evolution. Science can't 100% "prove" the account of human evolution or the origins of the universe and rule out all possible alternatives, therefore we can treat evolutionary theory and the big bang as a flimsy "guess".