Okay, here my story goes.

I was raised in a Christian home. Small town Lutheran church with good people. Always have been a Christian, expected to be. I have a family heritage in Free Lutheran ministry. My last name is prevalent in most departments of Free Lutheran associations. So, pretty much my last name gives away my religious denomination.

Throughout my whole life of a still short seventeen years, my primary thought has always been that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life (John 14:6). Jesus is my personal savior (John 3:16). I believe in a loving, omnipresent, God. I believe he sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins. I also believe that there is only one route to Heaven (Matthew 7:14).

The reason why I believe in Jesus and God has always been this way, and as far as I can tell, will always be. I have gone through the struggles and the doubts like every Christian does, but every experience leads me back to Jesus Christ. For instance, I look at my own experiences. This may sound like ludicrous to nonbelievers, but believers know what I'm talking about. There is an uncanny knack that the Bible says exactly the words you need for a particular struggle in your life. Answered prayers come at the exact same time a church group prays for someone. A missionary is able to make an important transportation purchase because God told someone to give money to a stranger. I'm not saying these can't be coincidences or exaggerated sometimes, but as a Christian, it's not difficult to see the wonders of God.

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Just a little tidbit of something I know that entices a lot of people to become Christians, is the Free Lutheran Youth convention (FLY). I don't know if baumhauer, Draugnar, and who else is Lutheran has ever been to one of those, but it is convicting. It's a week-long camp with several ten thousands of kids. Kids go to sessions, listen to speakers, have devotions, stuff like that. But there was nothing like going to the Long Hall during praise and worship. There is nothing that sends chills down your spine like tens of thousands of people singing "How Great is Our God" in unison. A whole auditorium of people confessing their belief in the same God. It was just incredible hearing that night after night, and seeing hundreds of kids going up each night accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior. There was power in that room, whether you call it brain washing or I call it the power of God, there was power that brought people to Christ.

P.S. Out of curiosity, has anyone else been to a FLY convention before?

@ Chrisp

There's a big difference in between televangelists like Pat Robertson and evangelicals like me. People hear me say "Evangelical Lutheran", and they automatically assume "Westboro Baptist Church! Pat Robertson!". No. Evangelicals are people just like you and I. We're not all prejudiced, ignorant, hypocritical monsters. We're just ordinary Christians. (usually right-leaning, but not always). Thinking of evangelicals as radical right-wing religious nuts is about as fair as saying that all Muslims are terrorists.

You know, this thread was intended to be an intelligent discussion on why people believe what they believe, but it's rapidly turning into a religion-bashing thread.

Gee, maybe you should write rational things instead of trolls then TMW.

I think my second-to-last post was pretty rational.

When you can go a week without trolling I'll start caring

Hypocritical bastard.

Why? Because I'm no longer willing to give you the benefit of the doubt? I think my skepticism about your willingness to enter a rational discussion is *well* earned - I have no obligation to review everything post to see if, gee, this time you may have a point. If I had reason to think you'd *stay* rational I might care - but we both know you're not going to, so why should I bother taking *anything* you say seriously?

Don't blame *me* because you act like a jackass. If you want to be treated as anything but a petulant child, it's time to step up and start acting that way. Until you do I feel not a smidgen of guilt in pretty much assuming that even if you're serious in a specific event, you're just setting things up so you can be an even bigger ass later.

No witty comeback to that?

Ok, Ok, strat and TMW go to your corners and cool off...........

Now back to religion........

Why again do we all hate Catholics?

*shrug* I'm not irked, but I'm not going to treat him with any respect until he *earns* it. The courtesy I give to strangers has been... used up by his behaviors.

And I don't have Catholics, or for than matter any person who has faith in something I do not. Why would I? As long as they don't attempt to force me to dance to their drummer it's all on them, and doesn't mean a damn thing to me

behavior. Whatever

*sarcasm*

Sorry, I'm operating on about two hours of sleep. I'm not necessarily at the top of my game right now

Baum, I understand that, but it's completely irrational when they can plainly see that the "universal" standards they attribute to their God are different from the "universal" standards that others attribute to even the same God. And I mentioned the fact that these "universal" standards are conveniently the same as their personal beliefs. Hallelujah!

TMW, What the hell?! I haven't mentioned evangelicals at all! You brought them up! I said I wasn't even that angry about them. Then you go on this tirade about being stereotyped, when nobody was saying anything, and then you claim that this thread has turned into religion bashing. It's like you're shadowboxing here... Anyway, it's not comparable to saying all Muslims are terrorists because that's a much more serious accusation, so stop pretending you're part of some persecuted minority.

Agnostic Christian right here. I submit that I'm never going to know what's true, so I'm experimenting, starting with giving the religion of my youth another go as a far more rational, critically-thinking human being.

There is no such thing as an intellectual discussion supporting religion.

Such an intellectual point of view ;-)

@ Chrisp

"It was one thing for people to hold their own private beliefs and worship, but it was another for them to impose their arbitrary doctrines on others."

Sorry. I thought that statement was directed at evangelicals. I apologize. We evangelicals are persecuted more than you think. True, we never had it as bad as the Muslims in the wake of 9/11, but I think we're being treated just as unfairly.

@ stratagos -- First of all, you're doing a lot more trolling than me. Hence the response "Hypocritical bastard". Second, my posts have been a lot more rational than yours. I don't think I'm acting like a jackass at all.

So, The_Master_Diplofool, does your congregation still affiliate with the ELCA since their decisions on gay clergy and the fact that they have allowed female pastors for years? I know your views are intolerant of both and figure your congregation is the same.

Honest question: what is the purpose of denominations? I'm a nondenominational Christian myself, and I never understood the purpose of dividing the faith like we tend to do... all it seems to do is promote inter-denominational or inter-religious spats and overemphasize dogmatic diction over the search for truth that (I think) religious practice is supposed to be.

This may come as a shock to you, TMW, but I don't particularly *care* what you think. While I freely admit I shouldn't stoop to your level, taking shots at you doesn't seem to really bother any one, does it?

You post to get reactions. You're getting one, just not one you like because I continue to point out fallacies and keep reminding you of lies you've been caught in but refuse to admit. Shall we revisit your 'thesis', 'professor'? Or your age? Or your homoerotic thoughts? None of which you made even an attempt to defend once they were called out.

You want me to stop rubbing your face in your failures and inadequacies? Stop trolling. Until you choose to, get used to it

BUMP because I'm eager for an answer

@President Eden, well, I could give you *my* view as an interested outsider (atheist in this case)... There is no search for truth in the conservative branches of religions... they already have their written truth and will fight anyone who disagrees with their interpretation - because: 1) they are blind to the fact that they themselves are interpreting the holy book(s) (and that the holy books themselves are an interpretation)... they believe they have the unvarnished truth in their hands and minds, 2) anyone who disagrees with them is disagreeing with the truth and therefore is either sadly misguided or, to some degree, evil. End of story.

Those that accept that everyone is searching for the truth and no one has a complete picture... those are the ones who end up in liberal denominations like the Unitarian Universalists or end up not even going to church regularly as they see and are repelled by the dogma. The various denominations are like the six blind men and the elephant... each is convinced that they know the truth and that it is the others who are misguided. Obviously there are those who have a bigger view and recognize that they can't be sure they have the whole truth and yet they still attend a particular denomination... I suspect that is mostly due to family and community relationships and habit and comfortable familiarity. ...but those people are not numerous enough, organized enough or motivated enough to draw denominations into uniting. (Indeed the only case I can think of of denominations uniting is the aforementioned Unitarian Universalists). Usually the motivations run the other direction... something offends or disappoints someone in an established church and so they run off and create their own (in their own image, essentially). Splitters.

@ stratagos -- I said a while back that I would ignore posts directed at me that are stupid. Most of yours fall into this category. If you're looking for an explosive rant, you targeted the wrong user. I'll recommend mapleleaf and Sicarius. It's not tough to piss off those guys, and you'll get the explosive rant you're practically begging for.

@ Draugnar -- You're putting words in my mouth. I'm a staunch proponent of female clergy. I am not sexist at all. However, my church is in the process of leaving the ELCA because of their recent decision to sanction sin (in the form of allowing gays to serve as clergy).

Amazingly enough, I'm not exactly trembling at the thought of you ranting. I will, however, continue to point out when you lie.

@dex: ...you practically stole the thought from my head there! That had more or less been my conclusion... as you might have guessed, I would consider myself a more liberal thinker (as you [correctly, IMO] used the term) when it comes to religion.

I think what happened on my individual religious path... I was raised Southern Baptist, which is a pretty religiously conservative denomination. The members that taught the various Biblical studies classes the young kids went to would frequently take shots at other denominations (particularly Catholicism) without really explaining why the shots were fired. I found the Catholics I associated with at my high school to be of a similar mold, just a different denomination, and I left the whole religion because it seemed like all of the people I'd known were that way. I'm realizing this isn't the case with everyone, and I'm trying it again from my more religiously liberal perspective. Just looking for some insight on the denominations. Thanks!

@ President Eden:

I've always thought that interdenominational fighting is stupid. We should just band together against common enemies, like anti-Christian people.

common enemies?

Of course there is a big difference between anti-Christian and non-Christian, were you suggesting that we band together against anyone who has banded together against us?