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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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doofman (201 D)
10 Dec 09 UTC
1 more
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16618
0 replies
Open
imafool (100 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
Talking (Diplomacy)
I find people on this site insist others to talk to everyone a lot. Even enemies. But this seems a little silly. Talking to your enemies won't help you. And there are certain situations where someone has sent you a question and you are doing something which they don't want. Do you answer truthfully and give away your intentions? Or do you lie and show yourself to be untrustworthy?
31 replies
Open
hellalt (90 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
Live Live Live
10 D, 5min/turn, gunboat, wta, not anonymous
Come on!
gameID=16584
26 replies
Open
doofman (201 D)
10 Dec 09 UTC
live game, carn- you know you want to
5bet, 5min, ppsc, normal game
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16617
3 replies
Open
turbomursu (100 D)
10 Dec 09 UTC
live game starting in 30 minutes
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16615
0 replies
Open
`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` (1922 D)
07 Dec 09 UTC
Bible study
Some of you are God fearing people. I'd appreciate your advice.
120 replies
Open
turbomursu (100 D)
10 Dec 09 UTC
another live game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16610

bet5, 5min turns, pub messages only. starts on on the hour.
0 replies
Open
doofman (201 D)
10 Dec 09 UTC
its live bitches
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16609
5bet, 5min stages, ppsc
0 replies
Open
hellalt (90 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
Big Game!
gameID=16565
350 D pot (50 D to join in), WTA, anon, all communications allowed, 1day/turn.
Do you dare?
3 replies
Open
denis (864 D)
10 Dec 09 UTC
LIVE GAME?
all the regulars are you intersted?
13 replies
Open
curtis (8870 D)
10 Dec 09 UTC
Live game please join in
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16600
1 reply
Open
dep5greg (644 D)
10 Dec 09 UTC
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16597
Join this game now for 5 min phases
0 replies
Open
Iceray0 (266 D(B))
10 Dec 09 UTC
Live game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16593
10 bet
PPSC
5 minute rounds
1 reply
Open
Sauron (0 DX)
10 Dec 09 UTC
JOIN LIVE GAME
gameID=16589
starts in 30 minutes
15 point bet
WTA
2 replies
Open
Helljumper (277 D)
10 Dec 09 UTC
Live Game in 30!
gameID=16590
Anon players
10 pts to plat
0 replies
Open
Don Corleone (277 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
Possible bug in leagues
Russia, Italy, Austria, and Germany all have the same countries as last game. The only countries that changed are ones which have been eliminated in that game. It really sounds like a bug.
gameID=16500
gameID=15239
13 replies
Open
dep5greg (644 D)
10 Dec 09 UTC
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16588
JOIN THIS GAME
1 reply
Open
Gnome de Guerre (359 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
What's going to happen next?
http://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID=16078&turn=3&mapType=large
9 replies
Open
curtis (8870 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
Live game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16581
need 2 players
6 replies
Open
Helljumper (277 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
Live game in 30!
1 reply
Open
n00bzorz pwnage (494 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
GOD ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?!?! DAMN SERVER!
Sorry about this just a minor rant by me...
6 replies
Open
doofman (201 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
Its My Birthday and i wanna play a live game
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16561
5min phases and ppsc 5bet
5 more needed
5 replies
Open
lightbringer76 (100 D)
08 Dec 09 UTC
Just need 3 more
for a Chaos game on goondip

http://goondip.com/board.php?gameID=177
2 replies
Open
Hamish (579 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
How long does an average real time game take?
Subject says it all.....
9 replies
Open
DJEcc24 (246 D)
07 Dec 09 UTC
World Cup Of Diplomacy Staff
i am going to need some help with the organizaton of the world cup tournament coming up. Sign Ups will begin in January. But this thread is for those who would like to help me keep it organized. This being my first time organizing it would be greatly appreciated. i know the Ghostmaker and denis have expressed interest.
14 replies
Open
PatDragon (103 D)
02 Dec 09 UTC
Riddle me this...
So I gave this riddle to another player once, with the stipulation that if he could solve it, I would cease hostilities with his nation. It turned out, the player was no better at puzzles than diplomacy. Anyway, I thought some of y'all might have fun with it:
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Noob179 (645 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
@PatDragon. As it relates to your riddle re: ticketed passengers.... airlines almost always overbook. Did you assume that the number of ticketed passengers and seats are the same? ;-)
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Dec 09 UTC
First, Dave Bishop's hat solution can save all but the first guy at the back. Perfect solution. Of course, everyone has to pay close attantion and follow the logic based on what the previous person said to know what color there hat is and whether they actually saw an even or odd number of reds.

@dave bishop - Are you, per chance, a mathematician/statistician?
Don Corleone (277 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
If anyone actually is a mathematician, try generalizing the hat problem to an infinite number of people. It's a beautiful argument.
Iceray0 (266 D(B))
03 Dec 09 UTC
When you first choose a door you have a 33.333333333333% chance, when the game show host chooses the other door and says "Are you sure?" He has given you a 66.6666666% chance on the other door and a 33.33333% chance on your first option. Don Corleone is correct, he just didn't explain why
Iceray0 (266 D(B))
03 Dec 09 UTC
need more riddles!
PatDragon (103 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
Don - you can also generalize to any number of colors...and I think you need to require we have countably many explorers - otherwise, ordering in the sums would become important
PatDragon (103 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
Allright, here's another:

let n>1. take a square, 2^n x 2^n grid (for example, if n=3 you have a chessboard) and remove one of the squares. we seek to tile the remaining part of the grid, without overlaps, using only tiles which have the following shape:

the tiles should consist of three squares, arranged in an "L-shape" i.e., they have shape (2,1)

is such a tiling always possible? an example does not necessarily prove the result in general - be careful!
PatDragon (103 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
And if that one's too hard, try this one on for size:

let n>1. take a square, n x n grid (for example, if n=8 you have a chessboard) and remove two of the corner squares (from opposite corners). we will call a 2x1 rectangle a "domino". is it possible to tile the remaining board, without overlaps, using only "dominoes"?
Hamish (579 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
I still haven't seen the solution to the aircraft riddle. Well, apparently it's 50%, but I haven't seen the explanation.

I also have a hard time believing this answer, while it is most certainly true if n=2, the chances of the last passenger getting his desingated seat must be smaller than 50%. If n=4 for example, if the first 2 passengers manage to choose seats other than th last passenger's designated seat, the 3rd passenger has a 50% chance of taking it. Becase there is also a chance of the 1st or 2nd passenger taking it, the final outcome must be less than 50%.
Robin.Kleer (100 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
About the easier chess riddle. It is not possible. Imagine a real chess board. The opposite corners are of the same color, (i.e. both black or both white). Now, with a 2x1 domino, you always cover 2 different colors. Therefore, it is not possible.
Hamish (579 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
About the L-shaped pieces:
Start small with a 2x2 board. It should be obvious that 1 L-shaped piece can be placed on top of it to leave any square open.
Now take a 4x4 board. Divide it into 4 quadrants, on 3 of the quadrants place a 2x2 board with the missing squares towards the middle. Use 1 extra L-piece to fill up the missing squares of these 3 quadrants and fill the 4th quadrant with a 2x2 board missing the appropriate piece.
Now take a 8x8 board. Divide it into 4 quadrants, on 3 of the quadrants ....... etc.

Not scientific proof, but good enough for me. :-)
Hamish (579 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
Ahhh.... new insight into the aircraft riddle. "Every other passenger" can mean 2 things, and will give entirely different answers to the riddle.
If it means "All other passengers" the answer is 50%, if it means the "All odd-numbered passengers" it's a whole new riddle, and it's very complex!
Xapi (194 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
Passenger 1 forgot his seat number. He takes a random seat.

There is a 1/n chance that he will take his proper seat (seat 1), there is a 1/n chance that he will take the last passenger's seat (seat n), and there is a (n-2)/n chance that he'll take someone elses seat (Seat j).

If he takes seat 1, then everyone will find their seats open when they get there, so passenger n will get his own seat.

If he takes seat n, then passenger n will find his seat occupied.

If he takes seat j, passengers 2 through j-1 get their proper seats. Passenger j's seat is occupied, so he has an 1/(n-j+1) chance that he will take seat 1, there is a 1/(n-j+1) chance that he will take seat n, and there is a (n-j-1)/(n-j+1) chance that he'll take someone elses seat (seat k).

If he takes seat 1, then everyone will find their seats open when they get there, so passenger n will get his own seat.

If he takes seat n, then passenger n will find his seat occupied.

If he takes seat k, passengers j+1 through k-1 get their proper seats. Passenger k's seat is occupied, so he has an 1/(n-k+1) chance that he will take seat 1, there is a 1/(n-k+1) chance that he will take seat n, and there is a (n-k-1)/(n-k+1) chance that he'll take someone elses seat (seat k).

If this reasoning is followed inductively, we see that at any point the odds of someone taking seat 1 or seat n (the triggers that end the loop one way or the other) are always equal.

Assuming no one takes them, the loop then will go on until someone (passenger i) takes the seat of passenger n-1.

Then passengers i+1 through n-1 get their proper seats, and n-1 finds his seat taken. However, the only seats available for him now are seats 1 and n, giving him a 50-50 cahnce to take either one.

If he takes seat 1, then passenger n will seat in his seat.

If he takes seat n, then passenger n will not seat in his proper seat.

As you can see, the odds of the loop ending one way or the other are 50%, because at any point, the odds of exiting the loop one way or the other are equal, and there is a chance to continue the loop as if nothing happened, until you reach the end of the line, where the odds are 50-50.
Xapi (194 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
For the case of 4 passengers, we have:

Passenger 1:

1/4 chances to take each seat, so that 1/4 to taking seat 4 (thus ending the possibility for passenger 4 to take it) and 1/4 to take seat 1, thus leaving all the other seats open for their owners (4 gets his seat)

1/4 chances for P1 to take seat 2, so P2 has to take a random seat:

1/3 chances to take seat 1 leaving the other 2 seats open for their owners, giving a combined 1/12 chance that P4 gets his seat.
1/3 chances to take seat 4, giving a combined 1/12 chance that 4 doesn't get his seat.
1/3 chances to take seat 3, so P3 has to choose: 1/2 to take seat 1, giving a combined (1/4*1/3*1/2) 1/24 chance that 4 gets his seat this way, and 1/2 to take seat 4, giving a combined (1/4*1/3*1/2) 1/24 chance that 4 doesn't get his seat.

1/4 chances that P1 takes seat 3, in wich case P2 gets his seat, and P3 has to choose, 1/2 to take seat 1, giving a combined 1/8 chance that 4 gets his seat, and 1/2 to take seat 4, giving a combined 1/8 chance that 4 doesn't get his seat.

If we add them up, the chance that 4 gets his seat is: 1/4+1/12+1/24+1/8 = 1/2
orathaic (1009 D(B))
03 Dec 09 UTC
three door quiz show is called the monty hall problem (though monty hall never gave the contestant the choice of changing)

as for the intuition, assume there are n doors, (say n=100) you pick 1 door, it has a 1% chance of being right, the host now opens 98 other doors which contain no prize.

now you have you 1% chance, or a 99% chance (because the other option is picking 99 doors of which only one is still closed) It's not 50/50 at that point.

@Hamish: you said "...the final outcome must be less than 50%." but you didn't take into acount all the possible results.

"If n=4 for example, if the first 2 passengers manage to choose seats other than the last passenger's designated seat, the 3rd passenger has a 50% chance of taking it. Becase there is also a chance of the 1st or 2nd passenger taking it" no, if nobody takes the 3rd passenger's seat he takes it and has a 0% chance of taking the last person's seat.
Noob179 (645 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
Too many people not thinking outside the box. The answer is zero.

Passenger 1 arrived late to the airport and missed boarding. He therefore had a zero chance of being seated.

Passenger 2's connecting flight was delayed to weather. She therefore had a zero chance of being seated.

Passengers 3 (a small infant) had a temper tantrum and his mother (Passenger 4) was so frazzled, she decided to take the next flight instead. They therefore had a zero chance of being seated.

Passenger 5 was an obnoxious Greek who was denied boarding because of his foul temper, obscenities, and profanities that the boarding crew labelled him a likely terrorist threat. He was detained at the gate therefore had a zero chance of being seated. He is still being held, without access to legal representation.

Passenger 6 mistakenly signed up for a live game prior to boarding and was trying to get his next set of moves in to avoid NMR/CD status. The door was closed while his orders were being finalized. He therefore had a zero chance of being seated.

The correct answer is therefore zero.

;-)
orathaic (1009 D(B))
03 Dec 09 UTC
you are missing entirely the point of these questions. They assume certainties which never exist in real life. Pure maths to test your own logical reasoning and deductive skills.

whereas in reality we need to do probability based error/risk estimates and nobody is thought how. (actually in dip we have to do similar risk estimates, which are more realistic and interesting...)
Noob179 (645 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
@orathaic. Not at all. Many folks are making assumptions that are not specified. Try that in a math/logic class and see what marks you get. For example, nearly all of the analyses above assume two key facts never articulated : a) the number of passengers and seats are the same and b) all passengers end up getting seated.

In most cases, failure to state key assumptions makes a response just as wrong as the incorrect conclusion.
LeoDaVinci (170 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
For the record, combinatorics was the most interesting class I ever took in university, and the most applied class to real life out of all the 'pure maths'. It can go from describing all of these riddles to what your chances are at winning at a casino for any given game to picking up girls at a bar... really, try it one day and see, life is but a numbers game!
orathaic (1009 D(B))
03 Dec 09 UTC
@noob: it is correct that those are assumptions which are being made, they happen to be the correct assumptions and the responders are not being corrected for making mistakes. This kind of assumption is exactly the point i'm making, we make them in real world situations all the time without noticing; However given the style of riddle, it is assumed that we have 100% certainty about some facts. (like it being impossible to communicate with others in the hat-cannibal problem)

@Leo: I kinda agree and disagre, probability and combinatorics should infact be thought as a problem solving skill, (from a young age) rather than a pure maths skill (which it is usually in my experience)
orathaic (1009 D(B))
03 Dec 09 UTC
let n>1. take a square, n x n grid (for example, if n=8 you have a chessboard) and remove two of the corner squares (from opposite corners). we will call a 2x1 rectangle a "domino". is it possible to tile the remaining board, without overlaps, using only "dominoes"?

for n odd, nxn is odd, nxn -2 is odd thus it is not possible to tile with dominoes.

for n even, (i'm not good, apparently, at converting this kinda of geometric problem into maths) if you fill the top row with dominoes you get left with a space at the end, take a dominoe and you effectively are taking the corner out of the next row.

Repeating this method, for n = 4 you get to corner holes missing at opposite ends.
for n = 6 you get the same problem. similarily for all n even (you need an odd number of rows to get them to match sides...)

not as comprehensive as Robin.Kleer's answer nor as compact.(but i misread his answer at first)

@Patdragon, is your first 2^Nx2^N problem L shapes of 3 or 4 squares? (a tetroid L 3 in lenght with one block on the end, like a knights move in chess? or a three square shape? i suppose the answer is obvious, you can't fill any 2^Nx2^N with one piece missing = odd number of squares with a 4 block piece... hmm.)
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Dec 09 UTC
@orathaic. Odd couldn't be done even if the corners were there because the square of every odd number is another odd number. When you subtract two, it is still an odd number. The dominos will always be an even number of squares. Doesn't fit.

To show the problem with the evens, look at a 2x2. You have two non-adjacent squares left. This is because, if you think in checkerboard design, you are taking two squares of the same color out. A domino will always cover one of each color, so you will always have two uncovered squares (identically colored on a checkerboard) as you have two more of one color than the other.
PatDragon (103 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
Orthaic, Hamish - props to you guys! And yes, orthaic - we should use 3-square L's for the 2^n square board (else the problem is trivial). And I liked Hamish's solution - and I disagree that it's not "scientific" - it clearly uses induction in a sensible way, even if you didn't state it completely formally (as did Xapi in his airplane solution). More generally, for people like Noob: As for calling for more assumptions or explicitly ruling out linguistic tricks, I leave this to personal taste. If you really think these problems are made more interesting by thinking of them in such a way, then this is probably how you should think of them. Personally, I prefer logic and deduction - in the correct context, all the necessary assumptions should become clear, as well as which ones are cheap cop-outs. Hamish - if you still don't believe the airplane result, read through Xapi's solution - he even follows up with an example to illustrate. Unfortunately, it seems like several people (including Noob - no offense, dude) think that such an example constitutes a proof. For shame!
PatDragon (103 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
Allright, enough combinatorics and probability - here's one for the topologists:

I have a painting that I would like to hang on a wall. The painting has a loose string attached to the upper corners of the back side (though you needn't assume that the string is already attached, we will assume that it is). I also have two nails. I would like to hang the painting in such a way, that if either nail is removed, the painting will necessarily fall. Is this possible? How about for 3 nails?

For example, the conventional way to hang such a painting would be to drive the two nails into the wall, and simply loop the string around both. This does not satisfy the criterion demanded above, because if either nail is removed, the painting is still left hanging on the other.

Another example that doesn't work: hang the painting on just one nail, and just have the other nail sticking into the wall anywhere else. Removing the nail the painting is hanging on will certainly make it fall, but removing the other nail will not. Hence, this does not satisfy our requirement of "if EITHER nail is removed, the painting will fall."
PatDragon (103 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
Or if you want something more algebraic:

Let t be a real number, and let floor(t) be the greatest integer less than or equal to t, i.e. floor(t) is t, rounded down to the nearest whole number. Define x=floor(t) and y=floor(2t). Write a polynomial in the variables x, y which is identically zero.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
03 Dec 09 UTC
let me start on the 2^n x 2^n board problem.
n>1, (2^n x 2^n)-1 tiles, divided into 3-square L's

(2^n x 2^n) = 2^2n
for n = 2, 2^2n-1 = 15 (divisible by 3)
or n = n+1 (2^2n) -1 = 2^(2n +2) - 1 = 2^2n*4 -1 = 2^2n*3 + (2^2n -1) which is divisible by 3 if (2^2n -1) is. Thus all possible boards have a multiple of 3 squares.

one more question, are we allowed to remove any square? (cause in that case i intuit the answer is yes, but i'll have to work on a proof)
PatDragon (103 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
Orthaic, you've got a great start - divisibility by 3 is certainly necessary...but not sufficient. Yes, you can remove any square. Hamish's solution by induction is quite elegant...convince yourself it's trivial for n=1, and then just find a crafty inductive step!
PatDragon (103 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
Or here's one for anyone, no fancy math required:

I have a perfectly cylindrical can containing some liquid. Devise a test that anyone in a gravitational field can perform, which will determine if the can is more than, less than, or exactly half-full.
Xapi (194 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
"I have a painting that I would like to hang on a wall. The painting has a loose string attached to the upper corners of the back side (though you needn't assume that the string is already attached, we will assume that it is). I also have two nails. I would like to hang the painting in such a way, that if either nail is removed, the painting will necessarily fall. Is this possible? How about for 3 nails? "

For two nails, I'd nail the loose side of the string to the other upper corner of the painting, nail the other nail to the wall, and hang the painting from the now tight string on the nail in the wall. If either nail is taken out, the painting falls.

You know, the usual way :P

For three nails... I'd have to think about that.
Xapi (194 D)
03 Dec 09 UTC
"I have a perfectly cylindrical can containing some liquid. Devise a test that anyone in a gravitational field can perform, which will determine if the can is more than, less than, or exactly half-full. "

Put it in the tub, and see how much it floats.

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184 replies
denis (864 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
tilmletokill's proxy won't let him make threads or finalize moves
It gives him these options to work from.
Include Form, Remove Scripts, Accept Cookies, Show Images , Show Referer, Rotate13, Base64, Strip Meta, Strip Title, Session Cookies.
Wich one does he choose?
5 replies
Open
Gnome de Guerre (359 D)
09 Dec 09 UTC
"Snowfall" -- New 36-hour game; please join.
This should be a friendly game:
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=16556
Default payout, messaging allowed, 36-hour turns.
Commemorating the first real snowfall of Winter 2009 (in Connecticut).
0 replies
Open
chs42 (466 D)
08 Dec 09 UTC
Suggestion for Retreats phase.
How about skipping the retreats phase if the only possibility for all retreats is "disband"?
26 replies
Open
Puddle (413 D)
07 Dec 09 UTC
Truth
Okay so here are the rules, Each post must start with something you find to be true, it doesn't have to be something fantastically deep, but it should be something of substance, so not some thing like, "Red shirts are red." After your truth you can say whatever you'd like, but the point would be to discuss others truths. I'll go first.

44 replies
Open
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