But you did make a blank comment for some reason.

If we're voting now, I vote for wydend's.

@Draugnar. i did read the whole thread and i was just referring to your comment that said nothing not your other comments

Right...belief and faith in God without organized religion is just spiritual anarchy. Something like a medical doctor who didn't want to bother with organized education. Why limit your mind like that.

What was the point of that statement? It's not the same a church limits belief not vise versa

Limits...defines...clarifies. All the same.

What? I understand you are saying faith plus chuch is better than just faith

church is simply a way to help the faith more

church is subject to corruption. it's a means of feeling powerful, as a community. mob rule, power in number, etc. christianity is an all or nothing religion in this sense, it needs converts to survive. faith without structure (ie deism) is more pure than structured religion with its superstitions and whatnot as it relies more on the individual and reason than fervent speaches of hellfire by radical preachers who don't know what the hell they're talking about because heaven and hell, sin, the devil, etc do not actually exist.

I don't understand why so many Christians consider evolution (and abiogenesis) and creation to be mutually exclusive. Evolution seems to be such an obvious fact but why can't it be part of God's design. To say that the lightning bolt that struck me last time I told a lewd Jesus joke was God's retribution is one thing, but to say there were no electrons in the air to cause the lightning bolt is ludicrous.

im christian and i dont argue with it. we came from dust and from dust we shall return. we arent divine we are of this earth. it is christ that sets us free. my soul is of God and my body is of earth. i just dont think humans came from fish. there isnt evidence for that. we have more genes with a banana than a fish

Faith is defined by the Church. We weren't innately born with Christian ideals of faith. The Church's job is to keep defining that message to a modern world. You can have faith about anything, but just like trying to practice medicine, there is a history to lead us. It just irks me that people try to minimize the supportive role of the church and just stand on their faith.

ugh, way to not understand evolution. that's not the official theory: fish-->humans in one step. everything comes from simpler things, in fact that kinda sounds like the creation argument depending on how you want to look at it. SunZi: what you are referring to is deism and it has died out sadly in the world since the Enlightenment era although secularism has expanded alongside religious fervor. Science/reason and Faith are said to be happily united in Deism. Deism can also be used as a platform for anti-establishmentism or anti-religionism (?).

SOW: Orthodoxy or "faith defined by the Church" is a means of brainwashing people and centralizing control. I'm going to guess based on your odiom for people who "just stand on their faith" that you are a Catholic.

Back to the Jokes:
... Jesus tries show off his cross-bearing muscles and picks up a chick at the bar and carries her out over his shoulder, Muhammad chases him out with a steak knife screaming "Die Infidel", while Moses fails to part his beer, and Dawkins sits at his seat laughing. That joke sucked, oh well.

@All, ah... The blank comment was a half hearted test of a depth charge. Nothing more.

@SSRF - nothing in evolution says we came from a modern day fish. We would have more in common with every other mammal than a modern fish. We are primates. We came from pre-primates somewhere down the line. They came from pre-mammals somehwre down the line. And the came from pre-land animals somewhere down the line. The key is all animals trace back to the original life form (an amoeba like single-cell organism), but the variations between us and modern fish are bound to be pretty radical because our relationship with them is way back in our genetic history when the first land animals crawled out of the ocean. Both of our lines genetic markers have changed and expanded tremendously since then.

Now, understand, I am a believer in God and Christ. But I accept evolution as the most plausible explanation for our existence, see God as the master architect of that evolution (call it ID if you like, but I think some of them are nut jobs as well), and see the Genesis creation story as a tale told to early man who didn't even have the conecpt of germs (diseases were all evil spirits back then) to explain something they couldn't grasp.

Thanks for the clearer explanation, that's much more accurate, Draugnar. I'm surprised your not a Deist though...

I will admit to having doubts about all aspects of Christ's life, but there is enough historical record to validate major portions of his birth (not the virgin birth per se, but Herod killing all male children under 2 years old and the record of the census where all men had to return to their home town). His teachings and his journeys are recorded in non-religious historical texts as well. The miracles like the loaves and the fishes do have other potential explanations, but this falls back to a lack of knowledge by man 2000 years ago (back to evil demons possessing the mentally ill and the sick). His death has historical records, even the unprecedented eclipse (let's face it, that's what the sky truning dark was) and the rendering of the veil of the temple has records in non-christian texts.

So, what I have to take on faith is the resurrection and ascension. To me, the virgin birth is irrelevant, but the resurrestion and ascension are the pinnacle completion if Christ is to be accepted as God incarnate.

Wow, we went from jokes involving three of the major figures in the world's religions and a "celebrated" atheist to this discussion. Let's get back to the jokes.

even then, what is sin? isn't the acceptance of sin crucial to a Christian?

I made an attempt at a joke, it wasn't funny though.

Jesus tries show off his cross-bearing muscles and picks up a chick at the bar and carries her out over his shoulder, Muhammad chases him out with a steak knife screaming "Die Infidel", while Moses fails to part his beer, and Dawkins sits at his seat laughing. That joke sucked, oh well.

Look to the 10 commandments and to the teachings of Christ to understand sin. Yes, sin and forgiveness are crucial to the Christian faith. They were also crucial to the Jewish faith, but Christianity has a forgiveness lacking in Judaism. But all those sins are social "sins" as well. They are all things that make our society operate and allow people to get along with one another without decending into the chaos that Sicarius so desperately wants. But, for early man to grasp it, God had to make man think that he would be angry and hurt if we committed these sins. The same applies to a number of elements of Judaism, like having a kosher kitchen. With a lack of refrigeration 2-6 thousand years ago, some ingredients were unsafe to keep together and the lack of sterilization made cleaning milk residue from pans used for the clean meats next to impossible. But mankind didn't understand virii and bacteria, so these rules were set down. It was part of God guiding us so he could develop our intellects over time.

But back to the jokes, please.

Ummm... correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this a JOKE THREAD?

I think so... I mean, I started it, after all (though I actually haven't put a joke of mine on yet... can't quite think of one as good as Crazy Anglican's and whoever made the joke with Russian Roulette and Dawkins in heaven- THAT was good, kudos...)

Four people? Comedy comes in threes, obiwanobiwan. I expected you knew more about jokes. You did say you were Jewish, after all.

Eliminating Rickard Dawkins since I don't know who he is, here's mine.

Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad walk into a bar. They all agree that whoever does the best bar trick pays for the round. Moses raises his staff and the beer in a guy down the bar's glass parts. Jesus gets a glass of water and turns it to wine. Muhammed looks at them disgustedly, says that everyone in the bar is an infidel for not heeding the Quran's ban of alcohol, and detonates the suicide bomb in his vest.

It's a kinda a blue joke.

If anything live with god not for him. If you do belive don 't tke it to the level where you sacrifice for god. or live in fear of him. To many people do this and thats the problem. And if you can't get past the fact that theere is no GOD this should be your path in faith.

How... slightly racist... funny, but still a bit racist, but not bad, so let's not start a war over it, because it seems people are doing that over every joke.

And yes, I know humor comes in threes... and yet Groucho, Harpo, and Chico sometimes had Zeppo, and Moe, Curly, and Larry had Shemp sub in sometimes... and then the PYTHONS are like 4-6 I think, let me see... Graham, Cleese, Idle Palin, and a couple others I can't remember the names and feel ashamed for not being able to do so...

well, I'm working on my joke... it'll come...

So Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, and Richard Dawkins all walk into a bar, and instantly the crowd roars.

Now, being the heads of Judasim, Christianity, Islam, and Atheism, all four men are drinking buddies... and VERY competitive.

They order a lot of drinks, and rack up a huge tab. It's Dawkin's turn to pay, but he suggests that first they all see who can win over the bar's crowd the most, with one trick each.

Moses comes up first, and brings forth the beer from the taps with his staff, and has it pour down into the people's glasses, getting him enormous applause, and adding to the tab.

Jesus steps up next, and turns that beer into rich and expensive wine for all, and the crowd goes wild, and the tab increases.

Muhammad comes up next, and summons for a caravan of camels,each carrying a barrel of beer and a barrel of wine each from the store tooms of the bar, and now the tab is enormous.

Dawkins comes up last- he pulls out a revolver and shoots himself in the head.

Dawkins finds himself in limbo, and there's Buhdda (because what religious joke is complete without Buhdda?) Buhdda asks what the shooting was all about, is this some sort of joke?

Dawkins answer?

"Joke's on them- who has to pick up that tab NOW?"

Buddha, Shiva, Jesus, Moses, Muhammed, L.Ron Hubbard, and Martin Luther walk into a bar and decide to play diplomacy.
Martin Luther draws Germany and heads into tryolia to kill italy
Shiva draws france and spreads his unitsfar and wide with his limbs and get;s three builds.
moses parts the norwegian sea and get norway plus denmark
Jesus draws italy and walk across water and get into greece and tunis
Muhammed draws turkey and is satisfied by finally taking over the byzantine empire.
Budda meditates draws russia and is enlightened with a way to play russia without angerning anyone.
Dawkins draw austria quote " FUCK I'm Screwed"