Don't feed the trolls.

I actually have read 'how to win a fight with a liberal' i think it's an enormously intelligent and enlightening read if you're a retarded ape. I'm not a hardcore liberal, in fact, until he chose palin as a running mate, i was thinking of voting for McCain, but that book had more oversimplifying and fact-warping than i've ever seen in my life. not to mention the uncountable non-sequitur arguments it made. it really is unbelievable that something like that got published. diplomat, i really hope you didn't post this thread because of reading that shit...

If this is just going to be hate (from both sides) please just let this die. A good-natured comedic roast is obviously too much for anyone to handle.

Besides, as South Park said, things have changed!

You honestly think this is good-natured, Invictus? It's clear this guy is a troll and an idiot on top of that. No roast, either from one of those or against one of those, can truly be good-natured.

stratagos has put it best: don't feel the trolls.

Look at my previous post. I thought this was supposed to be a satirical thread.

An roasts are by their very existence good-natured. Only honored people are roasted. It's to show respect, and have a laugh. I assumed this would be just the sort of thread like that.

"The liberals want the government to run the hospitals. I say why not? They do such a good job with the DMV."

But people's tempers just get too inflamed. Also, I guess diplomat1824 didn't intend for the thread to be like that.

To a former comment, I would argue that the Democratic Party has assumed most of the classically conservative values (nationalism, monitary conservency, resource management, ethical fortitude, simplicity) while the current NRC has lost its way by trying to cater to the needs of its base. This is a time-honored way in which politics works. A group gets control and generates a lot of enthusiasm, starts to splinter inside itself due to internal factions fighting for their share, and then falls apart and must reinvent itself. Bush never had a mandate, so the splintering process happened more immediately and savagely. Neither does Obama have a mandate, but the process will still be the same. Time moves on. The RNC will update itself and find a theme behind which they can unite. The next theme will hopefully be more sane than the last. When you try to hurt others, they usually end up hurting you back, and worse than how you started. The RNC will find renew itself, its public respect, and its self-respect. Things will have to change first. It will have to let go of the extreme right wing.

Okay, I'll roast myself: I'm a tree-huggin' liberal, and it gets a little rough sometimes. So I always carry my wood glue and chips, just in case. I just don't bark up the wrong trees, I bark up all of 'em!

What a bad idea for a thread. I'm no liberal but come on diplomat, this is too much.

About the electric chair, if stevelers sees this:

If you don't think Hitler deserved to be executed then you need some rehabilitation.

I agree Hitler would deserve just about any punishment, but rehabilitation's got a lot of political baggage with it. Soviet dissidents were "rehabilitated" in the gulags.

Three prisoners in gulag get to talking about why they are there.
"I'm here because I always got to work five minutes late, and they charged me with sabotage," says the first.
"I'm here because I kept getting to work five minutes early, and they charged me with spying," says the second
"I'm here because I got to work on time every day," says the third, "and they charged me with owning a western watch."

A man is thrown in a Soviet prison cell and the other inhabitants of the cell crowd round him.
“How long you in for,” they ask.
“Ten years,” the new man laments.
“And what did you do?”
“Nothing. I did nothing”.
“You liar,” the prisoners shout. “For nothing you get five years!”

"Obama and Pelosi are far left wing Liberal radicals" and "fox news is unbiased".

comedy gold diplomat , pure comedy gold.

Ive noticed that republicans are having a hard time coping with the fact that the people have said no to wholesale deregulation (of finance laws,environment etc) and yes to a limited national public health care and an end to iraq. They seemed to be deluding themselves that they lost because "bush wasnt conservetive enough" or the old myth of "liberal media" If you think cbs,nbc,abc etc are liberal pro socialist propaganda organisations and only Fox tells it like it really is....well there is no hope for you. you might as well stand tall and admit it, youve joined a cult.

"Obama and Pelosi are far left wing Liberal radicals" and "fox news is unbiased".

I lol'ed

The whole conservative versus liberal dichotomy is too broad anyway to be be meaningful. There are "conservatives" who have liberal views on certain topics, while some "liberal" are conservative on some topics.
The Bush government is described as neo-conservative, but they weren't that conservative economically, and as far as foreign policy is concerned I think "radical" would be a more accurate description.
Diplomat1824 where do you stand on the subject of climate change? Is it a genuine issue or is it another liberal agenda?
How about the teaching of intelligent design in schools - are you a a creationist?
The bailout? Where you for or against?

I should rephrase my first statement - the liberal versus conservative dichotomy is not completely meaningless, but it is certainly not always black or white. Diplomat said he could "roast liberals" on every topic - does he really mean every topic?
Diplomat are there any "liberal" ideas that you agree with?

Socialism doesn't work... can't you see what a shithole socialist Europe is? Who would want to live in freakin' Norway?

"Socialism doesn't work... can't you see what a shithole socialist Europe is? Who would want to live in freakin' Norway?"

diplomat1824 - You lost right there :P

I'm against the death penalty, but i'm also against imprisonment for victim-less crimes. for example, it can cost more than 3 million dollars to execute someone, since they get virtually unlimited appeals before their execution. However, each prisoner costs approximately 20k per year to keep in prison (so if just one prisoner was kept out of jail for a year, the government could send a student to college for two years). The US has more than 3 million people incarcerated, which is twice that of china despite their considerably larger population. point-in-case it's costing us a shitload. So before you talk about capital punishment, consider renewing the practice of public stonings or vigilante firing squads. and please think carefully whether or not i'm being sarcastic.

how about questioning what is a crime?
possession of small amounts of drugs is still a crime in the states right? what a waste of police time and money.
embezzlement and white collar crime- that is also a waste of money to imprison them. just send the bastards of to work at a soup kitchen downtown for the same amount of time as a full time volunteer.
i would extend that and say that any non violent crime doesnt need imprisonment.

Roast? Liberal?
Roast by what means: hotheaded arguments, spicy scandalous tidbits, wide stances in public spaces?
Liberal? by whose definition and where. A Canadian liberal is different than say an Iraqi Liberal or a Liberian Liberal or a South African Liberal.
And to what purpose all this? Practice at self abuse, or mental meaniality?
Entertainment would be admirable as it goes with most roasts as does ketchup and assorted other 'vegetables' under conservative regulations/
so please, make it funnier or let's have this thread put aside for a better cook.

"If you don't think Hitler deserved to be executed then you need some rehabilitation."

Wrong. It means that you know what human rights are and how they work in terms of legal implementation. HR's are "inalienable" and "indivisible": that means that the right to life can't be taken away from anybody under any circumstance.

This is not to say - of course - that people like Adolf Hitler or Arthur Harris were not war criminals and they both deserved the harshest punishment ever (although the latter - sadly - got a monument instead). But HR's provide a reference according to which death penalty can't be applied.

Beside the legal considerations - though - I can't really see what the advantage of killing somebody that is already in custody of the government... but this is totally another point...

Silly thread. If I remember it correctly, let me quote Chris Rock from one of his comedy stand-up shows:
"I'm not a liberal or a conservative. It depends on the issue. Crime - I'm conservative about, premarital sex & prostitution - I'm liberal about. Whoever makes up his mind before they actually hear the issue is a moron"

you can't say barack obama is an extremist liberal. he's american for god sake. all americans are right wing, even the liberal americans are right wing compared to the rest of the world. if anyone here is from britain or europe you will know what i mean. you sad americans just can't cope with the idea of sharing. you think that inequality is good. you probably think that we're socialist cos we have a national health service. well just consider this, would you rather pay for health insurance, or pay a fraction of the price in tax? i'd take our option any day. you basically just have a system where no-one helps anyone. well to be honest i would rather live in my country thanks.

and no i wouldn't execute hitler, i would send him to a prison with jewish jailers.

and you can't say your crappy extreme capitalist system is working during this economic crisis. if you hadn't noticed, your economy is down the toilet and ours is doing twice a good as yours.

@Ivo Ivanov - People who think through every issue generally have some core values that lead to certain conclusions. Most post-modern political analysis defines a social gauge and an economic gauge. I, for example, side with typical liberals when it comes to gay marriage, the death penalty, gun control, weighted taxes and universal health care. I (like the majority of people) didn't make up my mind before the issues were raised but my values lead me to come to those conclusions.

Also, to further mac's point - I don't believe there's any point where any man has the right to determine that another man doesn't have the right to live. That doesn't mean that I believe that the key to Hitler's cell shouldn't have been thrown away though - his crimes were despicable. That doesn't mean that anyone has the right to end his life though.

I do think it worth pointing out that the UN declared human rights can be denied if someone commits a crime. That's why 'technically' it isn't human rights abuse when the US executes someone. Despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of western democracies view it as immoral.

Benjamin is such a nice guy. Last time i check no one was doing very well economically. I enjoy living in the United States, it's a great place to be.

@Benjamin - If you're from the UK you aren't in a much better position than the US. The UK has adopted generally similar policies to the US since Thatcher. The mind-set even evolved into 'third-way' left with both Blair and Clinton's election. The US and the UK are also in the midst of a housing crisis which most of Europe has dodged.

My point: Everyone's fucked right now. The more anti-American countries are blaming it on 'US-UK casino capitalism' but its ultimately an unfair analysis attempting to shed any possible blame from themselves and directing it at an easy target. Its simply manipulating the mob.

What's to stop a homeless man from murdering then?

If he gets off, he can collect insurance or some other benefit, and if he doesn't he's just got life in prison.

They've got nothing to fear.

@Archonix - my point was that it is simply nonsense to start a thread targeted to/against liberals, conservatives, etc. You are right that many people come to a position about an issue based on their value orientation. And this is the main problem - you see something, you don't really think about it - and simply follow your group. Unfortunately, people find it easier to take decision this way - by associating with a larger group of people.

For all those keen to execute Hitler - please, would you care to elaborate when do you think would be the right time. To make it easy, here're some options :):
1. Immediately after he was born
2. For his 4th birthday
3. For graduation
4. When he joined the army for WWI
5. When he won the elections in Germany and became Prime Minister
6. When he invated Austria/Czechoslovakia

thucy, your reasoning is a homeless man wouldn't fear being sent to jail for life because at least a jail is a home???

thats just plain crazy.

My answer to Ivo's question -
I'd not have executed Hitler at any of those points - without him the Communists probably would have won the election where he took power rather than the Nazis. That would lead to Germany becoming a Communist state rather than a Nationalist one and Russia would have had an ally that it could stand to assosciate with. I see this leading to WWII happening later and resulting in a Communist victory and a global big brother state.

"Do not be so swift to hand out death in judgement for even the very wise cannot see all ends." The death penalty just got pwnt by Gandalf.