I feel for the people of Alabama. Having to choose between a Democrat who didn't seem particularly interested in trying to find a middle ground between his views and the views of the people, and the latest Republican effort to prove that some people will happily vote for a pig if it's wearing a hat, has not served democracy well.

How long before they get to try again?

Ogion when are you moving to mogadishu?

Thats a great generalization to describe one of the poorest most illiterate group of voters in America. Youve clearly never been to Alabama. Describing the voters as unfortunate souls stuck between an idealogue democrat (isnt true the dudes a gun owner), and a scumbag rapist republican. Yea it must have been so hard...

Exit polls had almost half the Republican voters believing Moore. You can't argue with people that accept fake news.

@ brainbomb

There's a point in there somewhere, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is.

I'm not sure that Jones is that far off from the views of the people of Alabama. His platform was one of anti-corruption,pro- health care and pro-education. Sure there is a sizeable minority that opposes those things or don't care, but only a minority are virulently anti-choice single issue voters. Even there he took a kind of "I'm not going there" position, which is reasonable. Remember, 25% are African American for whom issues of liberty and justice for all are key considerations as are, well, health care and education. Add in the chunk of young voters (people under forty overwhelmingly went for Jones. He won people under 30 by 22 points), women (+16 for Jones) and people with college degrees (+9 for Jones) and you've got the Obama coalition picking up enough independents to constitute a majority view in the state.

What made a big difference is that the Democrats invested in a on the ground organization rather thanTV ads, and that meant turnout was decent.
Basically, Howard Dean was right, and Hillary Clinto was wrong about campaign strategy.

"Basically, Howard Dean was right, and Hillary Clinto was wrong about campaign strategy."

Goodbye and good riddance to neoliberals.

Ogion when are you moving to mogadishu?

Voters in Alabama were in a very difficult position in this election. Had I been an Alabama voter, I would never have voted for Jones, but I it would have been very difficult for me to have voted for Moore. I probably would have either not voted or most likely I would have voted for a write-in candidate, like Busby.

@"2. we don't have a party system, just two turds have just so happened to float to the top of the toilet consistently"

That is the problem. Even if one party imploded another second party would rise up to the top, and repeat the previous mess.

That is what the system you have results in.

@"3. our state's rights make them hold some basic levels of independence and thus they also need representation, creating our electoral college. I'm fine with splitting votes, but only if states choose to. I'll leave it up to them"

It is entirely fair for them to decide how to elect their own representatives. You can have 50 congressmen from California elected in 3-5 seat constituencies and actually make individuals fight for their seats - competition to get the best candidates elected?

But you can't have democrats and republicans deciding the electoral boundaries and gerrymandering the whole thing. Need an independent body to oversee that. It is clear that much should be highly illegal.

@sexual harassment in europe: that is entirely fair. I didn't say people in power over here don't abuse that power - i only commented on voting systems. Which really goes to talk about the arguement here, ie whether you should blame the grassroots who voted for Roy Moore, or the GOP for not backing him...

If you want to turn this into a conversation about sexual harassment, thats fine.

@Ogion, you said "Orathaic, you forget that Moore was on the ballot because a majority of republicans voted for him. This business that republicans had no other choice is nonsense."

In other political systems the party would have kicked him out or refused to run him as a candidate. Most parties have very strict candidate selection processes - and because so few ppl are members of any political party over here, there is no grassroots primary vote, as i said selection not election.

Of course you can just run as an independent if you want, like in the US, except unlike the US irish independents currently hold the balance of power (if enough of them stopped supporting the govt, it would collapse - kinda like the DUP's power in the UK - but also, it enough representatives vote against the govt in a motion of no confidence, they can force an election for all of them. So while any 2 republican senators can block the passage of a bill, they can't force an election of all their colleagues.

I seem to recall a lot of complaints that London and other city councils operated as dictatorships and paid no mind to the people. I wouldn't hold british politics up as any shining model.

@Orathaic,
I think that there is another, larger issue at play there.

While there is essentially no way in which I envision that it could be repealed, as it was/is so politically easy to sell, I think that the greatest culprit in this area has been the Seventeenth Amendment, which has dramatically altered the balance between the power of the parties at the State level and at the Federal level and has heavily upset the balance of our Federalist system over the last one hundred years.

Obviously though, it is here to stay, as it is something that is so easy to pitch to the population at large, but has had a very deleterious impact on the nature and structure of our Republic, in my opinion.

17th Amendment? Really?

No, popular election of senators is necessary. The parties were TOO powerful--they either were too corrupt or too antagonistic to decide--and that's why the amendment came to pass.

If parties elect venal candidates, it is on them for supporting policies to allow that kind of filth to rise to the top of their ballots.

I could believe the 17th Amendment on balance has been a bad change for the country, but in this particular election I don't think it matters... we know the Alabama people didn't want the person who would have been appointed had the 17th not existed. Is that better for Alabama than a Democrat they also didn't want? Seems like they're losing either way.

@ora

haha I'm fine with cleaning my own house with all the abusers in congress. I want to see them cleared out, can't wait until WashPo makes their second run

Well, Orathaic, it's been a long hard fight actually to get to where voters select the candidates rather than party insiders and it is still going on. Take a look at the fight over super delegates in the presidential primaries. I'm sure that if the Republican establishment had control, they'd have run Strange instead, but then if the parties control everything, then policy becomes even more slanted toward political insiders (i.e., corporate donors) than it is today. This way at least the votes have a stronger ability to deal with corruption.

@President Eden,
I meant for my response to be directed at Orathaic's more general comments, rather than at this election in particular.

My bad, should have read more carefully.

If we’re talking about election woes and candidates who are horrible people:

Joe Exotic is a creep who keeps his tigers in shitty conditions. His late husband was like 30 years younger than him, and I hope to God that Rex Lawhorn wins Oklahoma’s Libertarian primary for Governor so that a half decent candidate gets on the ballot.

"Joe Exotic is a creep who keeps his tigers in shitty conditions."
"Libertarian primary"

Some things never change. God Bless the LP.

My friend in the state party is talking about everyone wants to distance from the image of the National Libertarian Party so that they can actually be taken seriously, so they really don’t want Joe to win.

We had the exact same issue here in Louisiana. The LP is a case study in how to butcher optics as horrifically as possible.

In Oklahoma, they’re the only registered party that the oil companies haven’t bought, which creates the hilarious irony of how the Libertarians are the only people outside of fringe Dems advocating against corporations, and even then Lawhorn is basically the only person who’s talking about targeting oil subsidies. So if the creepy tiger guy with the mullet wins the primary our spending and revenue are probably gonna stay fucked no matter what.

Corruption in government comes from special interest money like the Sierra club. Ogion and his ilk buy and sell politicians

CAPT Brad you are absolutely right! Other organizations/ companies that buy politicians are pharmaceutical and the NRA. The reason why they can buy politicians so well is that of a lovely thing called Citizens United which is a Republican bill which does not put a limit on how much companies can donate to political campaigns. Your party is the reason this is a problem.

Corruption in politics comes from not giving a shit what shenanigans politicians get up to as long as they're on your team.

Brad is against special interests but supports the party behind citizens united. Cool!

Looks like Kentucky is cleaning house too. Self-cleaning.