@damian

I agree we need to simplify our tax code, but I'm not talking about REPLACING taxes, rather I'm trying to find alternative ways to get revenue.

It's a real mind boggler...

I was more addressing, the idea of a bipartisan solution to the problem of nobody liking taxes.

If you're trying to supplement or replace revenue. Honestly. Government monopolies are potentially one way to do it. For example liquor boards where the government controls the liquor stores or licenses offsales. The government could take x% of the profit from the liquor corporation for revenue, while the rest could be reinvested.

Prices have to be higher to support that. So its really just a different way to getting peoples money. Only its a bit worse than a tax because it will tend to disproportionately impact people with lower incomes. As they spend a greater percentage of their income.

@damian

nationalization of an industry would NOT be bipartisan haha, although government offering unique services within a competitive market... we see that with bonds (although the treasury's actions aren't free-market willed so there are some who don't like that either)

most boring thread of all time

constructive

Yeah I'm sure the constructive dialogue in this thread is gonna cause some real social movement

JY - I don't understand why you keep bringing up the bond market

I think you just explained what Federal Student Loans are/were. You are describing providing loans for ______¿¿¿.

I consider subsidies to be gifts. If you got rid of sub contractors for military, farming, fracking and healthcare youd probably erase the deficit in ten years

Theres really no need to still be subsidizing farming or weapons production. Theres totally no need to subsidize healthcare other than the VA which is pretty much the most neglected so far

Without farming subsidies, it would not be profitable to farm in the United States on any significant scale for many crops. Even with the US exiting the market, subsequent price increases would not cover the necessary margin. Europe subsidizes farming for much the same reason.

Defense contractors are typically used where 1) there is no in-house talent available for that task or 2) They cannot retain the people they need for that function due to government pay scale limitations. Hence a lot of the cyber people are contractors, not DoD employees

Without farm subsidies farmers wouldnt have big screen tv's and 6 pickup trucks. A four wheeler. Ect

If you require 250-500,000 a year to keep your farm running you probably out to go out of business like any normal business

You really don't know much about economics, do ya. And I would also hope you know a bit about farming, and how expensive it is

Each one of those combines and tractors are insanely expensive. Let alone cost of fertilizer and seed. Insurance in case of crop failure.

My point is theyre all against govt handouts until its the ones they get.

Ah. Also, this may be a bit of a foot-in-mouth moment for me, as there are many excesses in farm subsidies, actually.

It is a form of socialism. Its just deemed a **must have** pro conservative form of socialism. As if in a vaccuum nothing else helps society that is funded by taxpayers. Ive met people against paying for roads and highways with taxes who dont blink an eye at cutting a check to farmers for a quarter mil

Meanwhile can you imagine the snarling earth ending vitriol if the government offered subsidies to upstart marijuana farms?

Or fucking hemp? Good god itd be like V for vedetta with these people

Corn: a non essential crop used to make fatty snacks, doesnt even digest. Also used in cattle feed which promotes disease, obesity in animals and in consumers who eat it. The marbling in steak is a result of corn fed unhealthy cows with fat intermingled into their muscles.
(Subsidized)

Meanwhile hemp is used for ropes in WW2. Can cure cancer.
(Not subsidized) in fact its a class 4 felony manufacturing a narcotic

Way to go from sensible to crazy train real quick there

When you poop. Corn is still in its full form.

Why are we subsidizing this

We also subsidize soybeans which cause men to grow breasts and ovulate. Also subsidized.

I mean. He's basically correct about corn. Its just that consumer demand for beef is such that we want a marbled product. The vast majority of corn isn't used for direct human consumption, and instead goes to animal feed, bio fuels and things like corn syrup.

There's some really weird stuff that goes on in the US agriculture sector. I'd be all for subsidies that actually boosted food security, particularly in the great plains were you're ironically basically living in a food desert. The subsidies that exist though aren't for that and have produced a very strange agricultural system.

Agricultural subsidies are a good example of how to get relatively bipartisan support for something, however. Maybe there is something useful to be learned from that.

the problem with taxes in the modern era is that it has strayed from being a revenue source for running a government to becoming a wealth redistribution vehicle. if the government took away ALL transfer payments we would have a surplus always. we used to run the whole government on tariffs and revenue taxes on alcohol and the like.

furthermore there is no RIGHT to welfare or government assistance. that includes government pensions to ANYONE. this has caused the government to grow so large that it now controls way beyond its ability to do so. as soon as someone gains expertise in running a government program they leave government and capitalize on that knowledge to siphon off more government money. if the Federal Government was half the size it would require the states to take back those responsibilities for care of citizens needs and concerns. if taxes were reduced accordingly states could tax more if the local citizens wanted to do so.

The military is a huge socialist agenda. We pay for their travel, their weapons, their college, their clothes, vehicles sometimes like tanks n shit. Sometimes we arent even at war and we still do it.

Thats about as socialist as it gets.

@brainbomb sounds like a good deal. you should enlist. then you will see strange and interesting people who will try to kill you