Some time ago, I decided not to participate in this forum any more because of censorship.

Once moderators introduce censorship, it can never be eradicated because of the feeling of power it gives them. Since that feeling is perceived as shameful, they'll never admit to it, and they'll invent all sorts of reasons for not giving it up. To eradicate censorship, you'd have to demote the moderators who use it, it's the only way.

Since in this case it's impossible, I see only three solutions for a concerned individual: abstain from participating in the censored forum; create a free forum elsewhere and try to win people over; submit. Most people choose the third solution. The second one would be the best, but I'm too lazy for it.

Zmja, i see you didn't read my alternative solution.

orathaic, any solution that includes censorship falls under "submit".

Sounds like the no true Scotsman falacy, but my alternative is closer to Your second option.

@orathaic, I cannot believe how much the two of us (you writing and I reading) wasted on your way too long post. You are the opposite of ATC, what he writes is always meaningful and full of sense, your crap is just made to sound smart but in fact you're just remembering some stuff you read on the internet so long ago, and it has almost nothing to do with this case.

@zultar - "I'm sure some old timer would say "this isn't the webDiplomacy I know." You are right. It isn't. Stay if you like but if you don't like it, let me say it again, please feel free to leave. No need for a long goodbye either. Don't waste my time, ATC's time, and other mods' time with complaints about what it used to be or how you want the forum to be this way or that."

Just out of interest is this your idea of making the site more welcoming?

Yeah, works for me. And if I recall correctly, you've already written a long goodbye letter, so feel free to leave. I have no qualm whatsoever about letting people know that this site isn't a debate site where people can throw whatever they want around. The forum is moderated, yes. You can call it censorship or whatever you want. We are going to be the best Diplomacy site, not a debate site, not a philosophical forum, not a personal soapbox for people looking for attention. And new members are coming and they are staying, and we have people donating and commenting how good the site is on the forum, in PMs, and in emails, so please don't worry about my site for me on my behalf. I can do that myself. The mod team and I will make the site into what we want it to be and we will make it welcoming to new members. The proof is in the eating of the pudding, not in your idea of what a forum should be, and we are seeing the increase in new members, live games, and tournies, which is what we want.

Frankly, if you don't like my site and my rules, please feel free to leave.

Maniac, that quote is missing context - the context is that the quote should start with something like "We're just asking you to be more respectful to each other.".

And yes, I 100% believe that if the forum is more civil and respectful, then the site will be more welcoming.

@Zultar - seems strange that you want to be more welcoming by inviting people to leave. As it happens I've come around to the tighter moderation of the site, it seems strange that generally the mods call for more respect, whilst sometimes being disrespectful but you are free to run the site however you choose, even if that sometimes appears to be like a petulant child threatening to take his ball home.

@ATC - I can't disagree with your desire to make the site more civil, respectful and welcoming and hope that the high level of debate isn't lost.

Blah blah blah, Maniac. I'm not inviting people to leave. The vast majority of people here will stay because they like the site and what we offer them. I'm mainly inviting people like you who bitch and complain endlessly to leave. Feel free to leave, Maniac, but please don't bother to leave a goodbye note and then come right back.

"I'm mainly inviting people like you who bitch and complain endlessly to leave" I'm not having that Zultar, where I've joined debates I've stated my honest opinions, respectfully and civilly, I can't help that you don't like some of them. I've had thousands of posts here and if you can find any where I've been offensive to another member I'd be surprised, my language is always respectful, I rarely ever swear or use intemperate language. I'm sorry if you feel I bitch and complain, but if you look objectively at my record, I think you'll find you're mistaken.

@Zmaj, I understand that some people simply prefer an open forum. What I do want to point out is that you have continued using the site to play diplomacy games. My hope, and hope of everyone involved with the site is that you enjoy the site for it's intended purpose, playing the game Diplomacy. We are working hard to improve the gaming side of the site.

Quite simply put the forum here is designed to supplement the game. If the forum is a hostile an unwelcoming environment then it drives people away, which means it isn't fulfilling it's purpose of supplementing the game, it's detracting from it by driving away members.

A little while ago I decided to pull some stats from the db, and found that just less then 10% of our active members have *ever* used the forum. That number is staggeringly low when you consider the different game based threads around. So we're working on making the forum a more game focused arena. I know this isn't what a lot of our older members are used to. And we are sorry that it will disappoint some people, but we have made the decision to become the best diplomacy site period. Part of that is going to be adding more features like the live game tool which is displayed above the forum sidebar on the homepage.

So basically, I am sorry that you would prefer a more open forum, but I do believe you're wrong. We don't moderate because we enjoy the power. We moderate because we are more interested in having a welcoming environment for people interested in the game then we are in providing a free speech environment.

I sincerely hope you continue to enjoy playing the game diplomacy on our site.

@yassem, i'm glad we have something in common, and i appreciate your feedback.

:)

@Zmaj, there was a creation of a second uncensored forum. That went over real well. Lol

Long live DipRepublic.

Is it even running anymore --is synapse still on vdip?

DipRepublic is more than a website; it is a state of existence.

I think the joke is that when a member of webDip leaves webDip to join dipRepublic, it raises the IQ of both sites.

No the joke is that DipRepublic has vastly more censorship than webDip.

Did Zultar make a funny?

Sic semper tyrannis!

Once again....the two forum format may be the solution. Have a Diplomacy based forum for game related stuff which can be somewhat heavily moderated and a "other stuff" forum for all the shit which is more open.

It's a private site and our glorious leader Zultar has his vision of making this the BEST DIPLOMACY SITE ON THE INTERNET. Not everyone will like it but not everyones opinion factors into the realpolitik. So that's that.

Is suppose we can keep trying to plant bombs along his itinerary, but gosh darn it he seems to have the knack of arriving or leaving just before or after the explosion, or some bloody hefty table is in the way. Deus vult I guess.

Bo, please don't come to my country or address me in anyway. Now THAT's diplomacy! C U next Tuesday!

I say we kill him

@ adge

Funnily enough it didn't. On paper SYnapse made himself all powerful dictator but in reality the only censorship he ever did were for the purpose of annoying Draugnar. There are many things Synapse did that were wrong. So many things... A really huge number of things... But in the DipRepulic venture I genuinely think he meant well.

It would be slighly tempting to create a sister site, with no moderation, and no games... Just tweak the find games bit to iframe webdip's games... api calls to get forum threads would be nice too...

@ora: why not help code zoidDip?

Guys, I hear they'll free krellin tonight! He was a martyr for about 48 hours, but now they're letting him back!