"Perhaps an alternative would be to blot out the messages of a muted person, with the option to reveal them upon clicking on them"

I think this is the best idea anyone has come up with in this thread by a long way.

##Vote option 2.

Can I also run a poll

As a society do we want

A) free speech

B) No free speech

Obviously if we all vote free speech this will allow our policemen to call us fucking nigger loving, jew hating, trailer trash scum when we ask them the time. So vote B people.

Well done JMO for presenting false options to try and obtain your desired result.

Option 2, with jmo removed from the mod team.

If we can't control the members of the moderator team, then option 1. I see no reason why an unelected group should enforce a misattributed "will of Kestas" particularly when he has specified many times that forum moderation should be kept to a minimum. And yeah, I know "it's a dictatorship if you don't like it leave" etc. But you asked for our opinions.

"Also, quite important, I strongly think that the ultimate regulator and arbitration should be in the hands of somebody who is actively engaged in modding the community. If we are doing this, it involves *making calls*. A lot of them."

Loool pretty sure it was sentences like this that justified all fascist regimes to the people. In fact based on Jmos first post and the other mod comments this feels more like a coup.

@SY: Lol!

Perhaps I wasnt clear: I don't mean concentrated power, I mean power that can be held accountable to a pre-defined standard. That can be multiple people too - in fact, I'd prefer it to be - but I'm not sure we have the quorum for that.

I actually never really liked that "it's a dictatorship" thing that gets thrown around sometimes. It's either a community or a dictatorship, it can't be both.

Option 1.
- I'm not a hugely big poster on the forums but I do certainly follow along and chip in when I feel like it, I'm probably a middle bracket of posters who might only chime in once or twice a week but lurks quite a lot.

Of course I don't agree with everything that's said on this forum, however yet again I find myself siding with Krellin, you don't want to read something, don't read it! I haven't used the mute button (outside of one particularly vulgar game), I find it relatively easy to just ignore the parts I don't want to read.

For example - the thread that has everyone up in arms, from the OP its pretty bloody obvious what its going to be like, if your that offended by it, why on earth are you opening it?

Fair comments Minister.

I mean, am I the only one who thought Abge was a great forum moderator? Personally I thought that he did a great job, and I'm a renowned anti-mod person.

I think I'm with krellin on the ignore option. I'll vote option #1. I have muted folks from time to time, but it was basically because I realized they were wasting my time.

RE-ELECT COMRADE ABGEMACHT!

Option 2. Definitely not mob rule. And I think the moderators should get together with Kestas and come up with a higher standard for mods.
Btw, and just for the record, I never saw a post asking members to "email Kestas if you do not agree with site policy."

Neither did I. I will email him daily.

In the meantime I vote for community moderation

I suspect most people have muted this thread

Option 3: The people who are responsible for managing the site make the rules. The people who use the site follow them.

Damn all you people, if most of you would come to your senses and recognize that the krellin is, in fact, the most reasonable and freedom loving chap around, who also has teh good sense to call a douchebag a douchebag without fear when it is needed, then you would realize that installing me as Lord Oversite Mod King would, in fact, be the wisest of all options.

hehe. krellin, you've gotten more +1s from me in the past two days than the previous however many years they've been around.

#krellin4kingofdip

"I suspect most people have muted this thread"

It's been muted 4 times, I suspect that indicates people are either interested in the topic, or more people share krellin's superpower of ignore.

Thank you to everyone who's contributed. This thread is being discussed by the mod team and Kestas and everyone's input is helpful.

(Posting in this thread because it seems to have the most constructive feedback overall)


Option 2 has worked out great with abge, but it's hard to keep that kind of well balanced, careful moderation going over a long period. If you want confirmation talk to all the guys who put huge effort into careful game moderation.

It'd be easy to do option 2 and say "okay, now we ban whoever we think crosses the line", but then lots of gray area cases are banned and pretty quickly the forum dies out. (I've seen this happen quickly, and to larger forums than this)
It's hard to say option 2, but only for this one guy right now. We'll be right back here in 2 weeks with someone else or after a few weeks and a long tortured process.


I understand why people might not want to mute a person, where they're part of a discussion that you can't see, and I think we can do more in software to help create more of a communal mute.
Some ideas have been posted and are being discussed about how we could do that, and slashdot/reddit/etc show you can make self-moderation work, so thanks to those making tailored suggestions.

However I really don't see why anyone would read or participate in a thread that offends them, especially with the mute thread feature. And I don't like the attitude that "people *should* be muting that thread, but they aren't, so we need to do it for them." I think people can decide that for themselves (unless it's something that's a game-related issue or a handful of other specific cases).


As always when people step down we're looking at whether the team needs to be reshuffled, and I'm taking on all points of view that are posted, and either of those might mean we try a different approach or put the forum in someone's care and see how it goes, but that's my POV at the moment and I'm interested in any comments people have.

(As an aside it is true that I get many more e-mails about over-moderation, though not exclusively or recently and usually in short bursts over some drama)

> (As an aside it is true that I get many more e-mails about over-moderation, though not exclusively or recently and usually in short bursts over some drama)
The "recently" part is a bit misleading now that I read it.. I have had recent e-mails about the threat of over-moderation, but not about actual over-moderation since there hasn't been any.

Honestly, the simple solution from a logistics point of view is to allow people to mute mods but allow the mods to have a tag they can use that would bypass the mute for official announcements or warnings. I know it isn't so simple form the technical point of view as the JavaScript has to see those tags and keep those posts open even if the poster is muted, but it provides for the ability to continue giving the mods the freedom to post as people without the view that the mods are untouchable by the rest of us rabble.

Agreed with kestas 100%, but I suspect people already know that. : )

All Hail the Most Powerful and Righteous Kestas. Huzzah!!! Huzzah!!! Huzzah!!

Common sense wins out again! Kaloo kalay!

I thought that was spelled Cthulhu Calais.

No, that was from Lewis Carrol's epic alternate history of the 100 Years War, where Mind Flayers fought for the English.

Easy mistake to make.

Is Cthulhu Calais any relation to Colbie Caillat?

Be silent, you turd-shaped potato.

Oh, well if you unmuted me, I guess I can stop mocking everything you say. I take it back.

I bet that's one hell of a shit to pass. Oh wait, that would be a potato-shaped turd. :-)