WE'RE NOT ENDING
You'd be the Tom Bombadil in this scenario

I'm mostly coming from a place of process of elimination and looking back at old cases to make damn sure

Ending at LyLo is a scummy suggestion when this is absolutely not settled.

Yeah, snowy was right, I didn't make any waves this game at all, no sir.

Also, I could make an argument just as strong by process of elimination for you to be scum too, I just didn't, cause it is a shit argument because it assumes the poster isn't scum, which isn't an assumption you can make at this stage.

I'd rather not wait 25 hours to end the game, I will be more than happy to give you tonight though to make arguments, and after that fox can decide if he wants to go longer. I was just checking because you said it was a town loss, and that makes me think you gave up.

Okay but that was literally the basis for your case

Real quick question:


How are we going to expect it makes sense that there was only ONE scum on the yavuz wagon D2 when it was literally the counterwagon to 2 scum wagons?

Why does DO and ghug having brief votes on Spirit make it impossible for him to be scum when they both also ended on bo D2?

Who the fuck says "I'm the most townie" and still lives that night?

Are you talking about dead towny's reads or process of elimination? Cause I gave lots of reasons why I'm town, so that goes beyond PoE. For dead towny reads, yeah i used them, but I didn't take what a towny said about you day 1 who lived several more days afterward. I also expanded on their reads and gave justification for them. Also, snowy was just scum reading me off my shitposting during the game start, but everyone shitposted. Snowy is like the king of non-sustaintial posting and had a bad record on reads throughout the game. Half of the townies we lynched mid-game were because he chose them as gambler targets.

How can Spirit claim to have done anything this game when all he does is follow others around?

"Cause I gave lots of reasons why I'm town, so that goes beyond PoE"

If you're not arguing me specifically as scum for being scum, then that's process of elimination.

I have done things that no scum would do this game. I also have reasons why I'm a clear townie, and so does Fox.

" Half of the townies we lynched mid-game were because he chose them as gambler targets."
I only remember that happening ONCE to someone I am the reason there was a push on him in the first place. Using his record to automatically say a worthwhile argument about you pretending to be substantive then dropping substance almost immediately is dishonest and scummy.

"How can Spirit claim to have done anything this game when all he does is follow others around? "

I followed people who were died and made their arguments for them after they couldn't anymore and successfully pushed town to lynch scum. I borrowed reads from dead townies, but I pushed those lynches and made the arguments and I wouldn't have done that if I was scum. It works if you're trying to say I'm not town MVP, but it doesn't work to make me scum.

"Why does DO and ghug having brief votes on Spirit make it impossible for him to be scum when they both also ended on bo D2?"

Their votes on me don't mean I'm not scum, but my strong pushes for both of them, especially demon when she wasn't really on the table at the time, do make it seem less likely for me to be scum.

"How are we going to expect it makes sense that there was only ONE scum on the yavuz wagon D2 when it was literally the counterwagon to 2 scum wagons?"

Chaqa was also the only scum not on a confirmed scum wagon d3, does it make more sense for him to go against the two main scum wagons (demon and ghug) by voting for a 3rd scum wagon (me)?

"Who the fuck says "I'm the most townie" and still lives that night?"

Yeah, that was odd to me as well, I fully expected to die, which is why I posted such detailed reads. Only you or fox know why I wasn't nked. I still stand by that I'm the most townie person here, for reasons I've discussed many times.

" Half of the townies we lynched mid-game were because he chose them as gambler targets."
I only remember that happening ONCE to someone I am the reason there was a push on him in the first place. Using his record to automatically say a worthwhile argument about you pretending to be substantive then dropping substance almost immediately is dishonest and scummy."

Bozo, ubber and vecna were the townies we lynched this game, I voted for both uber and bozo primarily to get snowy items, because there weren't stronger reasons elsewhere and there was a decent chance they were scum. So yeah, actually I did lie, 2/3 is more than half, so I was too conservative about his shitty reads. Also you didn't address the point about his argument being made at the very start of the game before I had done anything substantial and his reasons for pushing me being complete shit.

You tried to look substantial, which was the point.

And snowy based his gambles on everyone else's opinions and who he thought people were going to lynch. His items were never the sole basis of us lynching anyone.

o shit me up

Snowys thoughts D1 really aren't relevant anymore, they weren't even good thoughts then, that's why my lynch wasn't successful D1, even though I was a wagon. maniac said he was certain foxcastle was scum before he died on D3, and he correctly predicted every other member of the scum team, but I'm not using his reads with huge weight anymore because he died so long ago and lacked so much information. Maniac's read was both more recent and had a much better track record in hindsight than snowy's statement about me.

Also, I cracked some jokes at the beginning of the game and tried to have fun while I was playing a GAME. I certainly wasn't afraid of confrontation, evidence being now, with DO and ghug, and arguing to save reedeer and guak yesterday. I've also put in plenty of work scum hunting and doing analysis since then.

I think snowys items were a big reason for why we voted the way he did, didn't he got 5/5 or something with his gambles? town helped him with that. It wasn't the sole reason, but it was a big reason, and snowy certainly thought they were scum when he picked them as targets because he put votes on them each right afterward and knew his gamble could motivate people to vote for them.

what does "o shit me up" mean?

I really wish I could stop second guessing myself, but

##VOTE FOXCASTLE

Kind of pitiful honestly but as I was rereading you (Spirit) I felt the need to also reread Fox.

I've been defending him all game but mostly just skimmed him over for the past couple days.
He picked up the game surprisingly quickly for a new player. Not a big deal, as he says he'd been following along the second half of the previous game. That was how I'd picked up the game too.

But looking back on his posts I can't even probe a mind. I can't follow any logic, I can't see any consistency aside from him lacking consistency. And this is someone who had picked up the game and seen others do it as well.

And then there's

Foxcastle
Day-1 42:56
page 8 "@CommanderByron As a newcomer, actually, staying quiet and letting the veterans smash eachother to bits seems like pretty sound strategy either way... (I guess all my posts will now begin with "As a newcomer...")

But if I was being petty snapping back with a vote like that, I relent.
%%UNVOTE"

This is summarily the logic of someone whose first game is as scum.

So you don't think I'm scum anymore? What percentage do you think it is that it is me or foxcastle as the final scum member?

VOTE COUNT 9.3

TrPrado (2) - SpiritoftheRadio, Foxcastle
Foxcastle (1) - TrPrado

TrPrado is scheduled to be lynched.

23 hours and 55 minutes remain in Day 9.

I really wish I knew, Spirit. I'm exhausted.

Ok, if you really are town and are in a shitty situation, I need two things from you prado, and I need them to be convincing.

1)
"I have done things that no scum would do this game. I also have reasons why I'm a clear townie, and so does Fox."
Tell me exactly what you have done that no scum would do this game, and detail your thoughts when you were doing these things at the time.

2)
You said you've only skimmed foxcastle in the last couple days, assuming by default he was town. What in your rereadings has changed your mind? Why did you mention revelations happening in the last couple days of his play, but only quoted something he said from day 1? Make a good scum case against him if you know you're town, because I'm town too, I hope you can see that in all talking we've been doing.

I won't vote end on you until you respond, so if you're exhausted, take some time to collect your thoughts. Make your thoughts good, and I'll hear you out with an open mind. I'm going to reread foxcastle in the mean time as well.

I am on my commute home, but following along. Will be able to post more later.

Also I'm taking my mom into a doctors appointment 2-3 hours before end of day tomorrow, so don't wait till the last minute or I might not be around.

Trying to figure out how scum thinks or what would make sense as a scum strategy doesn't make me scum. Besides, that was commentary/reaction about CB's plan to lynch newbies. I think I have been fairly consistent in the latter half of the game with my strategy to clear out lurkers. It was Vecna's strategy, too, and if we'd followed it, we might not have had to do the triple-kill/modkill to get one scum. As I said, I'm looking at this game and the players in terms of what makes good strategies and tactics, because I can't judge anyone here on their meta or how they compare to past games.

I can point to plenty in Spirit's history that either makes little sense as scum or is clearly town. Even if I can't clearly paint you as scum, TrPrado, I'm not sure I can paint you as anything else.

Spirit:

1) First and foremost N3 I helped damian make the argument in favor of not handing out a gun that night, though neither of us were being particularly serious and just wanted to give him enough room to hand out a gun without getting a RB. If I were scum then either:
a) I would have had him RB'd anyway, or
b) If scumteam weren't intending to RB damian at any point I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of making it seem realistic.

Other factors include leading a lynch on someone (bozo) who would flip inno. Not good because it got us closer to LyLo, but I personally can't think of any time scum has ever done this. This was something that helped make sense of yavuz as town for me, with bo actively avoiding it making a lot more sense if he intended to get something out of it like an image of being right, trustworthy, and without blame for a townie dying.

Last tidbit is a little more bizarre but my reaction to the Demon lynch isn't particularly one that would be realistic for a scum who's just spent hours advocating different scum buddy to be lynched. That was a "I can't believe not only was I subverted in the lynch but I was also wrong"

2) It's not so much that as I had read him as pretty well following the new town learning curve (TM) pretty well and didn't spend much time rereading him, but in a situation where I've defended you both as town for a substantial portion of the game I have now felt like I had no choice but to take a harder look at Fox as well.

Something else I noticed:

His last post on D3 was 6 hours out from EoD, but the first thing he said N3 was "Holy hell, I had to leave 15 minutes before EOD"

Keep in mind he's been adamantly anti-lurker all game but by his own words essentially spent 6 hours lurking on a pivotal lynch.

"Trying to figure out how scum thinks or what would make sense as a scum strategy doesn't make me scum. Besides, that was commentary/reaction about CB's plan to lynch newbies."

The problem is you saying you felt like it'd be best to sit around and watch others. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone OTHER than scum utilize that kind of behavior, especially for someone who claimed to have watched some form of strategy by following along some portion of the previous game.

I have not been the most active player. But I have participated. There's a big difference between "less active" and "lurking".

What I said on Day 1 was my first time interacting with any of you directly that wasn't negotiating over diplomacy moves. So maybe I came off wrong until I figured out what was expected/accepted. And yes, much as others have their own particular way of approaching the world--Brainbomb's stream of consciousness or Demon's hostility, for example--part of my approach is observation. That doesn't make it a scum strategy.

Observing is one thing, but sitting back and letting it happen without any sort of mention, such as say spending 6 hours lurking and being completely silent at EoD even though you claim to have been there, is something else in its entirety.

For someone interested in observing and trying to pick things out, you sure don't ask much of any questions, do you?

Spirit:

The next time you’re on your computer, look at the peterbot, search all of Fox’s posts, and use Ctrl+F to see how many times he has used a question mark. Say here what that number is.

It's 10. But on Night 5, I used "???" so that should probably only count as one.