It was obvious that they were town because they were not playing, i dont know how many times I have to say it. Especially now that we know the outcome, saving them would have been the right move unless we were stupid and then tried to lynch them the next day, in my mind they were basically clear cause no scum would get modkilled when in finals days. Anyway, I'm new years wasted and am not going to argue the point further, it was the right move and even if it wasn't, I was the one who got us to lynch scum, if I hadn't stepped in, we would have likely lynched reedeer and lost. Your dumb if you think im scum, seriously, your iq is fucking hurting if you're actually town prado. I'm near certain your scum, so respect that you can't just admit it, but you'd be better off pushing vash or fox, my record is the best of those remaining, you are just in a bad situation because you've town read both fox and vash for most of the game and can't switch reads now because you're worried it will look bad. I get ya bud, you did a decent job as scum, but ya got caught.

Wasn't night suppose to end earlier anyway? thought I, or at least someone, was suppose to die. Is night 48hrs because of new years or did jamie just get distracted?

“It was obvious that they were town because they were not playing, i dont know how many times I have to say it.”

Chaqa wasn’t playing either and he flipped scum.

chaqa wasn't getting modkilled in the near end game, and had done plenty of scummy things before, I was scum reading him long before his replacement. Different situations. No one even had a good reason to scum read reedeer for his actual play, everyone was just buying into lurker maddness.

Prado, sense your the only one still playing. What do you think the realistic chances are that we're town v. towning right now?

GM NOTE

Night ends tonight at 1pm GMT. It was extended due to New Years Eve celebrations.

I have thoughts but am saving them for EoN

If I am the NK, the two of you that are Town will know what to do better than I can advise.

Night ends in one hour.

===============================
NIGHT HAS ENDED - PLEASE HOLD

The morning sun's rays were piercing as they illuminated the frosty vista. Sadly, in a all-too-familiar sight, the sunlight fell on the corpse of another townsperson. Strangely, a piece of blank paper was clutched in his lifeless hand, and nearby lay a pen.

VASHTANEUROTIC has DIED. He was CLEATUS FOLWELL of the TOWN.

---------------------------------------------------
DAY 9 HAS BEGUN - YOU MAY POST

Well ##vote TrPrado

Unless Prado or I change our minds, you're the deciding vote Fox. Let's not vote end without discussing it thoroughly, but I gave all my main arguments in that huge page yesterday. Really wish vash would have given his reads, but he decided to tease us with actually being useful to town, I should have known better. In the future fox, always give your reads if there is even a chance you can die, it can only help town and you aren't responsible for if we lose by listening to your reads if they end up being bad.

VOTE COUNT 9.0

TrPrado (1) - SpiritoftheRadio

TRPRADO is scheduled to be hung from the neck until he is dead.

You have 36 hours and 5 minutes until end of day.

Uh... no pressure. O_O

I am going back to reread a bunch and look much more closet at early votes (when there were more wagons and more switching). Let's see what Prado has to say.

My priors going into this are that TrP is likely town and Spirit is likely scum. These are based on gut reactions throughout the game, but I did scumread Spirit early on, and that stuck with me. That said, I have had to figure this out as I go, and one of my main criteria is "does a proposal help or hurt town?" Which is where my initial scumread of Spirit came from, when he proposed (but did not advocate) that people should fakeclaim to create a smokescreen against scum killing actual PRs.

I started to go back and skim the entirety of game to see if anything jumps out at me. Oof... that's a big project. Still rereading the last few days, though.

But just skimming through Spirit and TrP... Spirit is much more clear and careful to lay out chains of thought and argumentation. TrP does that for Bozo, but most of what TrP posts is conversational. Going back to "does it help or hurt," either Town-Spirit is putting a lot of effort into figuring things out, and naturally is occasionally wrong; or Scum-Spirit is putting a lot of effort into misleading town, and occasionally throwing in red herrings. Darg is a damn odd red herring to set up at the end of the game, though. We didn't know Guak would get mod-killed, but... if we had stayed on Reedeer, Guak's modkill would have lost us the game (which is a miscalculation I would have ended up making)...

D1 (CB): Seven (later TrP) spends the first half of his votes on Brainbomb, and then switches to NES (later Uber); Spirit sits on NES (later Uber) and doesn't move.

D2 (Bo): TrP jumps around a bit, from Brainbomb to Vash to Bo to Ghug to Flum and finally back to Bo; Spirit sits on Yavuz and doesn't move.

D3 (Demon): TrP jumps around a bit, from Maniac to Vecna, but then lands on Ghug and sticks that out until EOD. Spirit jumps on Demon, switches to Ghug for a bit, but then ends on Demon. Both the Demon and Ghug wagons were going strong, but there was also a viable Spirit wagon the entire day. Does it make sense that 1) the top 3 wagons were scum? 2) Spirit was bussing two other scum to save himself, particularly when there was a brief HR wagon.

D4 (Ghug): Ghug gets endhammered by all three of us.

D5 (Uber): Spirit initially goes for Uber, but then Unvotes, then lands on Bozo before switching to Uber. TrP is on Bozo initially, but then switches to Uber for a moment, back to Bozo for a moment, then ends on Uber. Vecna put the Uber wagon over the top, but Spirit, TrP, and I were the next three votes to cement it, all three coming off Bozo to land on Uber (though those votes were not snap decisions... Vecna voted for Uber 10 hours before Spirit, with TrP coming in more than 90 minutes after that, and me 15 minutes after that).

D6 (Bozo): Spirit pushes Yavuz, then very briefly on Guak before landing on Bozo and sticking it out. TrP is the first vote on Bozo and doesn't move.

D7 (Vecna): Vecna was the only viable wagon. TrP joins right at the end, Spirit tries to push Guak near the end.

D8 (Dargory): TrP begins pushing on Spirit. Spirit starts off voting for me, but then moves to Darg, at which point TrP follows suit, and we all end up on Darg. Spirit advocates endvoting to save Reedeer and Guak. That appealed to me, but I felt like Vash was more correct that three birds with one stone was a better move; if we hadn't done that, we'd still be processing lurkers.

Day 3 really gives me pause on my scumread of Spirit. Were the top 3 wagons really all scum?? I mean, lynching 4 scum in a row is already unlikely, and there's inherent correlation, but... that would mean we were at one point ready to lynch 5 in a row... And I would believe that scum Spirit would bus both his scumbuddies, but there was briefly a HR wagon. Demon and Ghug both made an effort to push that wagon, briefly overlapping (along with Bozo and Vecna when HR topped out at 4 in second place behind Ghug). Spirit was on Ghug and Demon the entire time, and didn't jump on the HR wagon at all (though, Ghug was well in the lead at that point). Ended on Demon... Was actually the vote that put Demon in the lead... But at that point it was two scum, and if Spirit was also scum, why bus Demon over Ghug? Trying to think back... was Ghug less scummy than Demon? Shooting Maniac was Ghug's big mistake that led to him getting lynched. Demon was being read on her Meta, mostly, I think, which was something Spirit was pushing. If that was scum-v-scum, Spirit could have had a miraculous change of heart, or would that have cast too much suspicion on a Scum-Spirit, thus forcing Scum-Spirit to bus Demon. But why get into that mess in the first place?

My gut still says Spirit could be scum and TrP could be town, but I'm having a much harder time justifying either of those positions with facts...

Hello, have been operating mostly from my phone recently but am presently borrowing a laptop.

##VOTE SPIRITOFTHERADIO

In our back and forth last night, Spirit on a number of occasions kept lying to try to make me look bad. The most egregious was in my vote for Maniac at the start of day. First he says that I started it with no explanation and that scum followed me. Then I point out there was discussion for it the night before and he says that only a couple people gave passing mention of it. Then I cited specific people talking about it and he said they were basically all scum.

Problem is every single stage of his arguments were wrong. Maliciously wrong. Everyone and their dog had given the aura of wanting Maniac dead. That was why there was backlash to ghug shooting him early.

And then I'd like to give a reminder at the trick played N3 after the ghug lynch, when I helped give damian room to hand a gun off. At start of night I told him not to hand out a gun, then he and I started arguing against a few people as to why he shouldn't hand out a gun. But neither of us were being partiuclarly serious. We had both secretly just hoped to make it to where scum had to guess whether or not he was handing one out, which made it less likely for them to roleblock him.

Spirit also claims I only voted bo because everyone else was. The problem with that is that the first time bo was ever even tied for the lead was because of my vote with less than 2 hours to remain. The last time I voted for him tied him against yavuz a second time. And from there I unflinchingly stayed on the bo wagon to keep it afloat, rdrivera jumping on is what sealed its fate.

If you'd like a big difference maker, Fox:
Look who has ever led a lynch. I led one on bozo. Not particularly a badge of honor, but look back at when we've lynched people who are town. Those wagons are more than likely going to be led by a town because scum leading them brings far much attention to themselves.

This is whereas the only time Spirit "led" a lynch was darg, and that only happened because Flum wanted it to happen.

##VOTE SPIRIT since apparently the bot didn't recognize that

##CALL GM: Looks like the last vote count confused the bot and killed TrPrado off...

GM NOTE

Yes so it did. However since there are only three of you left, I think we can keep track of the votes without Peterlund's tool (amazingly useful though it is).

GM NOTE (supplemental)

Don't forget - Peterlund's bot is a third-party aid, but it does not replace or over-rule the GMs in any particular game. Only the Vote Counts posted here by me or RagingIke should be considered official.

VOTE COUNT 9.1

TrPrado (1) - SpiritoftheRadio
SpiritoftheRadio (1) - TrPrado

NOBODY is scheduled to be lynched.

One day, three hours, and 45 minutes remain in Day 9.

Ok so a couple clarifications, if ghug, demon and I were scum, I pushed demon in the spotlight and pushed her lynch after Maniac and bb died, who were the only strong proponents of her being scum before they died. I made the demon lynch happen when it did, some people may have been scum reading her, but it was all about ghug at that point, I was the one who convinced everyone demon was scum and brought up the connection of ghug protecting demon by shooting maniac, her biggest scumreader, and made her lynch happen that day. I then pushed ghug hard as well, though that was less impactful since so many were scum reading ghug already. And as for my wagon that day, it didn't exist until after I started pushing demon and ghug, and they were the two that led my wagon that day, trying to get people onto me when they were in hot water after I made it clear they were scum. I made the demon lynch happen when it did, even though I didn't need to, and if I was scum, that would have been an utterly terrible move since the scum team was already down two on day 3 and ghug was clearly on his way out soon as well. That's one time where it should be hard to read me as scum after that, because like I said at the time, it would be incredibly dumb to do what I did as scum.

Another point is the darg lynch, we never would have lynched him if it wasn't for me, we would have almost certainly lynched reedeer, and thus would have lost the game. I don't know what could town clear me more, we literally would have lost yesterday, no question, if I hadn't stepped in. You can't read it any other way unless someone was sitting in the background with a dar case they were gunna push but didn't. None of the remaining people here were going to get lynched that day, so unless it was darg, town would have lost. I stopped that from happening. Another mental move if I'm scum.

Fox, if you're still scum reading me from something vaguely odd you noticed on day 1, you need to reevaluate me because I've done tons of pro town stuff since then. In fact, if you look at my D8, you can tell I'm not against pushing off the wall strategies if I think it will help town. I still think fake claiming as town could be good in some circumstances, just risky. Just like I still think we should have saved guak and reedeer yesterday, which was actually the opposite of risky, but that's neither here nor there. I'm vocal and I have weird but often effective strategies. Everyone thought I was an idiot on D3 when I said I was going to listen to dead townies and vote demon for bb and maniac, but it worked like a charm and with their direction I was able to form a convincing argument against her and lead town to lynching scum. I did the exact same thing on D8 with dar, just using Vecna's read of him to help me. Vecna's read also said that if dar flipped scum, we should lynch prado next, go back and read that. I've gotten pretty good results with my weird strategies this game, even if you think one of my ideas was scummy.

I've been the primary force to lead town to lynching two scum this game, what has prado done that was even pro-town? Other than pushing ghug, which everyone at the time, myself included, was doing, I can't really find anything he's done pro-town the entire game.

And to prado, I never lied, when you brought up points where I was mistaken, I clarified and took ownership of the mistake when I did make it, which was when I said you voted maniac D3 with nothing proceeding it to justify it. I was wrong, and I said that. That isn't lying. Once more, I posted a massive case study on you and you pointed out 2-3 things that you disagreed with about it, I defended my stance on all of them, but said I was wrong about voting maniac on D3, because I was. Finding one hole in a couple thousands of words I wrote on you yesterday does not make me scum. It is also not maliciously lying by any means.

In fact, you "lied" when you said I only led the lynch with darg, I led the one with demon too. I also pushed ghug hard. And it was vecna not flum who said darg was bad news and vecna also said if darg flipped scum, you'd flip scum too. I never said you voted bo "because" everyone else did, you voted bo WHEN everyone else did, after his claim, because you did and once more, you passively questioned the bo lynch several times before hopping on to it, almost like you were trying to dissuade it.

Spirit, I was just giving some history as I try to work through this. That's where my initial scum read of you came from and probably where my bias in thinking you were scum came from. I wanted to reread you specifically trying to disprove my bias. And after doing so, the case for you being town is pretty strong. And the case for TrP being town is much harder to make for me. You really did do a lot to try to figure this out.

So I really hope you're not scum...

##Vote TrPrado

VOTE COUNT 9.2

TrPrado (2) - SpiritoftheRadio, Foxcastle
SpiritoftheRadio (1) - TrPrado

TrPrado is scheduled to be lynched.

26 hours remain in Day 9.

Uhhh, okay that looks like a town loss

I'm getting really bad Tom Bombadil flashbacks, all the way down to the "I hope you're not scum quote"

Except this time I'm not fucking up as much as I did that game.

Do you have any other arguments? Or are you admitting defeat there? Scum or town, you played a decent game, prado, nothing to be ashamed of. Did better than any of the other scum, that's for sure.

Maybe because I'm not scum?

maybe, but do you want to say anything to make a case for someone other than yourself, cause if not, we should end it. Your talk of the bombadil quote made me think you were maybe accusing foxcastle for a second.