Its nuts how so many of you do not understand basic finance.

@Draug, in particular: China has reduced their holdings in Treasuries in the past year. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Also, please explain how it is a potential threat that China holds a large amount of US debt anyway. I don't think you understand what you are talking about. No offence.

@Lando: I am completely serious. Check the facts yourself, stay away from msnbc, and call me if you have any further difficulties

I started this to see if there were some intelligent democrats in the world left. Now I find that there are only socialists that know nothing beyond the United States borders. The UN has put a ban on non-nuclear nations producing nuclear arms. We have a right to our own national security and an Iran with Nukes threaten that security. Debt is never a good thing in any form. You guys say that it is good to have nations invest in us. What happens when we cant pay taht investment back? Please explian

Should I bother referencing GDP, unemployment rates or anything like that? But I guess you're right, we need to get rid of superfluous regulation and government involvement, and wait for the invisible hand to work its magic in this world of perfect knowledge and rationality that will, in miraculous fashion, bring about equality and freedom, all whilst saving us from the evil communists/muslims

I agree. $16000000000000 is an obscene amount of money

And our debt is over 100% of GDP. Also obscene.

@ all ^ this is not worth our time, there is no helping here I don't think.

This is freaking weird.

@sbvyl36
What the heck was that load of crap you just posted? Jeez.

Our national debt :)

This thread makes me sad.

Think about it, if China wanted to it could bankrupt us today. All it has to do is say that it wants all of its money today, we wouldnt be able to pay, and that would be the end of our economy

@Socrates, "cyclical crises" are NOT an inherent characteristic of capitalism, they are an inherent characteristic a for profit, private banking concern controlling the money supply.

http://www.usdebtclock.org

"Debt is never a good thing in any form" <-- this is woefully inaccurate. We had a good thread about this a few weeks ago, can someone dig it up?
Also, it appears like literally everyone in the world believes "we" can pay the investment back because Treasury rates are at historical lows right now. How do you explain that if the debt levels are such a concern?

No point in responding to Sybvl, he seems to think that we will be shocked by a bunch of zeros.

I agree with @Lando Calrissian this is accomplishing nothing because you are guys debating with me things that you know nothing about. I started this so you could help me see the good things Obama is doing because I know there are some things but right now you guys are debating all the things that are bad about him

Because you have a sever misconception of about everything in the world lol

@Texas: Obama doing good things?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

"Think about it, if China wanted to it could bankrupt us today. All it has to do is say that it wants all of its money today, we wouldnt be able to pay, and that would be the end of our economy" simple as this.

I told you I was right

I made some points, and then called you out for what I assume you are, doesn't weaken my case, or prove yours. I'm not a 'dummycat', although would vote for them over the republicans without a second thought (yet this would be begrudgingly if I gave it a second thought). What's wrong with being socialist? Besides wanting equality? And technically America, and probably all of you, are techincally 'socialist', although unfortunately not red enough. Ooooo the UN? Why didn't you tell me before? It's not like I knew that, or that they are a biased organisation, often serving western/american interests. And I could argue Iran have a right to their national security, one that is threatened without nukes.

Arguing about the debt in general is something I would be interested in, but I think is more appropriate in another thread given that debt is something any president would have and not be able to eradicate...

@Frank - I will readily admit you probably have more knowledge of the situation than I do. I'm not a finance major. Where the problem in one nation lies to me is they begin to develop the ability to manipulate our economy and we begin to develop a dependence on their influx of cash.

@texastough:

here are the some good things although im sure i've forgot a bunch:

-saved the auto industry
-saved the economy
-made huge steps in civil rights by repealing don't ask don't tell and coming out in support of gay marriage
-appointed good supreme court justices (this is important because they will serve much longer than Obama)
-ended the war in iraq
-made good first steps towards fixing health care system
-helped restore confidence in the United States abroad
-responded quickly and effectively to natural disasters at home and abroad

things he has done poorly:
-not paid any attention to gun control or the environment

In Capitalism, we have unequal riches.
In socialism, we have equal misery.

It's ALL DEBT, every penny.

@Lando again you are wrong. China would lose a hell of a lot of money in doing that and that only promotes why debt is an extremely bad thing. and yes @Sbvyl36 not everything he is doing is bad. also how am I the one with world misconceptions when you always dance around my arguments. if China bankrupt us they would simply come in and annhilate us. It's as easy as that

MichiganMan, I think they are but that's again for another thread. China can't ask for all the money because that would be no good for them or their economy. Also if they did we would do what in an ideal world we would be able to do anyway and tell them to go fuck themselves.

"Awkward moment when you mistakenly assume this site is filled with relatively intelligent people and then the retarded right come out in force..."

That was the ad hominem to which I referred, Socrates. And I never called anyone here a socialist. Please try to keep your targets clear so you know who said what.

Actually China could sell its bonds, and people would buy them. Whatever is left, the federal reserve could buy itself. This would hurt the US by harming confidence in us, but there isn't much confidence in anything, so we would probably be fine.

At the end of the day, the US government could use the ability to mint coins to just pay off the whole debt, which would cause crazy inflation. Since a big problem is too much debt, the inflation would help to fix that by lowering all debt, but would also hurt all savings. If push comes to shove, bam...really upset our bond holders too.

lol, I just posted one of sybvl's messages sarcastically.