"After all, the pause button is not a diplomatic tool."

Word.

Still though maybe this would have been better left to [email protected]

no one really follows that rule tbh but... just try to remember for next time k

oh and PS, i took this exact action with nobodies (players that you claim would not be heard) like last week, it was all over email though.

so if you're going to attack abge you'll also need to attack me.

In that case, my complaint is with MM for making this public
Of course, one could argue that was a good thin if it forces transparency in a situation that clearly the general populace hasn't been made aware of: mods forcing pauses potentially against players wishes.

@Thucy - I'm not attacking abge or anyone; it is possible to have disagreements/ discussions without it being an attack.

My points are if anyone chooses to respond to them are....

(a) The rules say contact a mod via email. If I had posted an allegation about cheaters here everyone would jump down my throat, but someone asks for a pause here and it was granted.
(b) As I understand it the pause button is there so that if all players agree to it, the game can be paused. If that isn't the rule then could someone tell me what it is. It fine to have discussions about changing the rules, but we all have to play by the same set whilst games are in progress surely?
(c) We have been discussing an ongoing game, something that isn't usually acceptable.
(d) What about treating people differently - would you pause one of my games knowing that I have an principled anti-pause policy? (as has been stated on my homepage for like ever) If not then why would I be treated differently from the player MadMarx is playing with.
(e) Arn't we creating unnecessary work for the mods? I've had to wait several times recently for players to disband when they have no other options, should I be calling the mods everytime it happens?

Ok sorry "attack" was the wrong word.... criticize then.

@Maniac

a) There are reasons that we don't want cheating accusations on the forum. While, it would have been better if MM had emailed us about this, imho, I've never felt like pause requests needed to be done in secret. Clearly, this may not be the case...

b) It has been the policy of mods for a long time to pause games in extenuating circumstances. Obviously, this is vague, which is why I've just email the mods so we can discuss this and make sure we are all on the same page.

c) You are correct and this should not be happening, although it seems the conversation has now turned to policy rather than a specific game.

d) Because I know you do not pause, I would be extremely more hesitant to pause a game you were in. But, this would be the case for anyone who put it in their profile. Again, if I force pause a game and someone requests that I unpause it, I will immediately do so. And, if a player specifically tells me they don't want to pause (remember, you must answer communications from mods) then I wouldn't do so either.

e) I believe part of the mods' job is to help create a good gaming experience, so I feel neither the initial request nor this discussion to be unnecessary work.

I just thought we weren't supposed to accuse people of cheating on the forum, but clearly I don't pay attention enough to the proper protocol. Sorry for the drama, at least my part in it.

I was NOT accusing anyone of cheating, at least not in the second post, I was asking merely for a pause, and got a shit storm as a result

Yeah I agree with A and C if you look above you'll see i mentioned that. I try not to jump down anyone's throat ever though.. just remind them. As I did here.

And Maniac... if you looked like you had died or something and were gone... I'd say all bets were off..

We mods are currently discussing pause rules though so we'll get back to you. Suffice to say the action that was taken now was taken in the best interest of the game. Let's be real: CD's suck. Better to avoid them.

On E.... just to tip my hand a bit.. I would personally be in favor of some coding that auto-moves for you if you have only one option and its your last move before defeat. But... you know that's just me talking. I have no idea how hard that would be to code

Not long ago, I had a game pause I was certain I hadn't voted for but I wrote it off as an accidental phone finger press. Now I wonder... I wasn't going to grant that pause because the player requesting it was a puts and came in with a last second vacation that they clearly knew about in advance. Pauses are not an entitlement and should not be forced just because someone doesn't vote for them and doesn't comment on them.

From this day forward, I only grant pauses in league games or when prearraigned.

as i said from the beginning, it doesn't matter what is said, it matters who said it.

@Draug

I make it very clear in Global when I pause a game.

@Santa

If I remember correctly, you were PMing mods for a pause, *because you thought there was cheating*.

I thought it doesn't matter what is said, but how you said it?

so its ok to ask for a pause to force it on someone who doesn't want it, but its not ok to ask for a pause when your opponent is actually cheating and time is running out. Got it abge. Both are against the rules, yet one name is more familiar than the other, only difference.

cant wait till the next time i post and you arbitrarily take away some points.

youre talking about hellalt huh.

lol.

yeah and again... *i told MM he shouldnt have posted this.... so drop that, k? thanx*

anyway guys let's just cool it a bit maybe. think for a second about... what we're talking about here.

fucking pauses in an internet version of a board game.

lmao.

rest assured we have your best interests at heart, here, ok?

@Santa

I've never taken points away from you.

but if its cheaters in an internet board game... now thats another story, feel free to pile it on...

you threatened to, i didnt see a similar threat here

In summary, another example of bull shit, arbitrary enforcement by the community. I will leave this thread.

Had MM made a cheating accusation, I probably wouldn't have even warned him; I probably would have just docked him points, tbh.

How long did you give the non-voter to respond? Did you give him a whole phase? I know the answer, you didn't. So maybe he didn't even see you PM or email until after you had taken action.

Holy crap you guys have a lot to say over something small. Like Thucy, I had paused a game with an unresponsive player a couple weeks ago. It was all done through email.
I agree unresponsive and even NMR is a valid tactic (though a bit tasteless in my opinion), but this player also had not logged into the site for days and didn't respond to email requests from mods. So the pause was granted.

You can argue the little ifs/ands/buts of the minor details of the rules, but we also use common sense and try to keep the game fun. I'll argue points, but if you are down to a minute detail of a rule made for the site (and not diplomacy) I think you are barking at a wall. We can interpret around the rules of the site (not the game), because they were written not by a lawyer, but by a player... and the biggest rule of the site (not the game) is 'common sense', which we can lean on in most situations when we are bending around a minute detail of a rule for the sake of fairness and fun.

^

I still want to know... Did this player NMR? And how long was the player given to respond?

@Draug: "How long did you give the non-voter to respond? Did you give him a whole phase? I know the answer, you didn't. So maybe he didn't even see you PM or email until after you had taken action. "

Alright, I'm going to get my hands a touch dirty here, and it's only to use the same tactic you are using against abge:
Draug... how many similar situations have you modded over? I know the answer, none. We handle similar situations to like this routinely, and abge has been a mod a very long time, so he knows what to ask, how to ask, how long to wait, and knows with a good percentage if the response will come.
This is why moderation rulings are not a public spectacle. Not everyone will think every ruling is a fair one. You are arguing to the teeth about a ruling for a player, but do you know the player? Do you know if he is coming back? Do you know if his non-responsiveness resulted as a carefully measured tactic? Do you know why he would ignore multiple PM and emails from moderators of the site that is outside the game?

The point is, if there is an issue, the ruling can be overturned. If he really was just ignoring the site/not caring, we can't turn a turn in the game back and give that turn back to the players.

He would have nmr'ed. He hasn't logged in in over 3 days.