+1 goldfinger

Not to hijack the thread, but Colin Powell would never have won the nomination of either party.

obiwanobiwan, barring Sulieman being the one orchestrating the thugs into attacking the protesters, he will totally be accepted as a successor. Whether he would win in an election is another matter, but should Mubarak go the jubilation among the people would be more than enough to let him steer the state without anything like this level of opposition. At least for a while. Him being president is the absolute best case scenario for a stable transition, as long as he doesn't have blood on his hands from these incidents.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/Competing-Protests-Begin-in-Yemeni-Capital-115170944.html

It's beginning in YEMEN now...

This could really turn into something big, first Tunisia, then Egypt, now Yemen's starting...

If this continues and the protesters aren't crushed, if the other Arab states see the other protesters meet with success...could more follow?

We KNOW there are those in IRAN that want a revolution--if the momentum continues, does anyone think we could see Twitter Revolution II in Iran?

(On a grimmer note, it was a likely conclusion anyway, but now being confirmed on the Al Jazeera stream that the Egyptian National Museum has reported looting...very sad...)

CNN reporting that a convicting Hezbollah militant has escaped from an Egyptian prison...

Who wants to bet Mubarak's laxing things a bit to creat such an anarchy people will pick his tyrrany over the fight?

Nice...

"at any rate this 'revolution' has no leaders and little external support, so its just a matter of time until it is completely repressed."

Bold predictions about these events have failed to come to fruition every single time. A couple weeks ago the western media was all boldly declaring how the Tunisia unrest wouldn't spread, and how an uprising in Egypt would have zero chance at ousting Mubarak. Whatever. We'll see what happens.

Live gunshots captured on AlJazeera, reported as sniper rifles...

Seriously, this HAS to count as crimes against humanity.

(That reported better be carfeful not to get shot...)

What about Saudi Arabia? That country could go up in flames as well, no?

Also, even though the Islamists did not trigger this , or act openly just now, doesnt mean that they have a shot at the power, in the aftermath of the revolution..

So i heard vodafone were sending pro-government text messages to the entire egyptian customer base, i decided to ask as i'm a vodafone customer: http://forum.vodafone.ie/index.php?/topic/6571-egypt/

there is an appeal, here if anyone wants to sign it: https://www.accessnow.org/page/s/Vodafone-bloody-handsets

Vodafone says the government made them do it:
http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/press.html

i know, sorry, apparently i forgot to post that...

i'm not taking that as a valid answer. If they are not forthcoming i'm going to do my best to organise a boycott (and the least it will do is end my 10 years as a vodafone ireland customer)

my gut responce to vodafone's passing the buck to the government is PATHETIC!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/weekinreview/06held.html?_r=1&hp

This man needs to be brought to an international court and wrung out...

The whole REGIME needs to, sending in secret police on not only the citizens but on reporters.

Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, and now Joran appears to be starting up or preparing to start up as well, if Al Jazeera's live stream is accurate (and it's been pretty spot on so far.)

Anyone think this WILL spread to Iran? I sure hope so, that'd be the ultimate victory, since they started this last year with their Twitter Revolution and, well, as a pro-Israel person on the whole and a Jew, I'd like to see Holocaust-denying, Israeli-Doomsday-Plotting Ahmadenijad run out of Iran and into an international furvor he so well deserves.

And I'll be honest--this might be so far one of the best jobs I've seen Obama do so far in office, he's said mostly all the right things and taken a harder stance, telling Mubarak now to listen and possibly step down and yet not going over-the-top...

If he can pull off a good transition for Egypt government-wise WITHOUT resorting to an occupation or troops the way the previosu administration did in Iraq, it'd be a good victory and go a long way to establishing some credibility for 2012...

Egypt is already a free country.

They have been allied to the US and Israel since Mubarak came to power.

The Egyptians as a whole hate Israel and want to support Palestine, but Mubarak refuses. If they bring down Mubarak, either another more harsh dictatorship will rise, or it will be a democratic country at war with Israel and the US. Either way its loose-loose for the Egyptians. The only way Egypt will find peace is if the rebels learn their place and stop complaining.

Mubarak already agreed to step down, so why the hell are you still rebelling?

@Fasces: Your post seems to suggest that being under the sway of a dictator who is allied to the US equals being free.

I think Eqypt should have its shot at democracy, even if it means that their democratic government is harder to deal with for Israel and the US than their corrupt dictator.

If the rebels want reform Mubarak needs to step down immediately. If the rebellion dies down before he is gone he can still use his remaining months to rebuild his power base, after which he will suddenly change his mind about stepping down.

Yes, Fasces, Egypt is SO VERY FREE...

Hence the reason the "President" has been "elected" to office for 30 years straight, the Interent was unhooked, and the Secret Police have been told to dress as civilians and ride on horseback and camels to beat and whip protesters AND snipe at them from buildings AND attack journalists AND Mubarak just lets that all happen.

Then again, with your fascist tendencies, I suppose that's EXACTLY what you'd call "free."

Tell me, if he starts posting posters all over telling Egyptians "Big Mubarak Is watching You," will that be just as free?



(And as an aside, from what I've heard from most Jews on the Internet--myself included, of course--we're supporting this uprising as 1. We of ALL people should be against a tyrant not letting his people go and be free and 2. This WILL happen; supress it and look like the enemy of the Egyptians' freedom and the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas and Hezbollah and all the other terror agencies will have that much of an easier case to make the US and Israel are the enemies of Egyptian peace and freedom, support the peace as Obama and Clinton have been doing and the Egyptian people might just stay peaceful and even have a BETTER relationship as the long-standing peace between egypt and Israel has helped both sides.)

lol

^
...

Anything else to say? LOL

Nobody is surprised that Fasces says something politically moronic anymore.

But moving on to important things:

As much as Obama is getting nailed from both sides here, I think he's balanced it out fairly well. If he backs Mubarak to the hilt, he's just delaying the inevitable, and giving credence to the anti-Americanism. If he backs the protesters to the hilt, he risks the moderate elements being portrayed as American puppets by more radical elements.

Its the same problem that we had when Iran had its protests. A light hand is going to reap more rewards than a heavy hand.

"The Egyptians as a whole hate Israel and want to support Palestine, but Mubarak refuses. "

I thought you said you hated Jews and Israel?

"If he backs the protesters to the hilt, he risks the moderate elements being portrayed as American puppets by more radical elements."

That might be true but I don't think that played any part in his calculation. The US administration did everything it could to support Mubarak publicly with its statements short of pulling a Berlusconi and claiming Mubarak is the "wisest of men". Biden, in his stupidity, even claimed that Mubarak was *not a dictator*.

"@Fasces: Your post seems to suggest that being under the sway of a dictator who is allied to the US equals being free."
No, what I am suggesting is living in a country that is almost as right wing as countries like the US and Canada equals being freer.

The freer the market the freer the people.

"I think Eqypt should have its shot at democracy, even if it means that their democratic government is harder to deal with for Israel and the US than their corrupt dictator."
I am against democracy for this reason. The party that got the most votes in the last election campaigned behind invading Israel. They were a head in the polls before Mubarak arrested them all. If you want the Second Suez Canal Crisis to happen then sure, hand Egypt over to a democracy.

"If the rebels want reform Mubarak needs to step down immediately. If the rebellion dies down before he is gone he can still use his remaining months to rebuild his power base, after which he will suddenly change his mind about stepping down."
He announced that he would step down, which is what the people want. He has been an ally of the US, Britain and Israel, which is what is best for the country, not what the people want. He is a good example of a good misunderstood benevolent dictator for he wants the best for his people, not what his people think is best.

"Hence the reason the "President" has been "elected" to office for 30 years straight, the Interent was unhooked, and the Secret Police have been told to dress as civilians and ride on horseback and camels to beat and whip protesters AND snipe at them from buildings AND attack journalists AND Mubarak just lets that all happen."
It was the rebels and protestors, not Mubaraks secret police who attacked the journalists.

"Then again, with your fascist tendencies, I suppose that's EXACTLY what you'd call "free.""

GOOD JOB +!

"Tell me, if he starts posting posters all over telling Egyptians "Big Mubarak Is watching You," will that be just as free?"
But he isn't watching them and unlike big brother, Mubaraks rule has benefited Egypt greatly.

"Nobody is surprised that Fasces says something politically moronic anymore."
I never say anything moronic, its just to you tards anything I say is moronic. A humans thoughts is incomprehendable to apes, just like my thoughts are incomprehendable to idiots. Consider yourselves lucky that I am trying to spread my knowledge.

Anyway so much for whoever said that the movement would be crushed and/or fizzle out.

"I thought you said you hated Jews and Israel? "
Don't compare me to Nazi's. I want to make it clear that unlike most fascist I am not anti-semitic. My views for supporting Palestine over Israel is completely different then my views of supporting Mubarak.

The fact is, Egypt can either side with the Palestinians in this conflict, which is exactly what they did that started the Suez Canal Crisis, or they could continue supporting the US which would benefit the economy of the country.

"Mubaraks rule has benefited Egypt greatly."

How have skyrocketing food prices, corruption, and unemployment benefited Egypt?

"Don't compare me to Nazi's. I want to make it clear that unlike most fascist I am not anti-semitic."

I'm not calling you a Nazi, but you publicly said you didn't like Jews.

"He announced that he would step down, which is what the people want. He has been an ally of the US, Britain and Israel, which is what is best for the country, not what the people want. He is a good example of a good misunderstood benevolent dictator for he wants the best for his people, not what his people think is best."

if benevolent means doing what's YOU see as in the best interest of the country. Unfortunately for the people to ensure his rule he has to oppress them. ie restrict their freedoms. Whether he is a good leader or not.

"A humans thoughts is incomprehendable to apes, just like my thoughts are incomprehendable to idiots. "

i'm so glad i consider myself an ape, what with homo homo sapiens being an ape and all :) - by your analogy that must make you 'one of us idiots'

If Mubarak was such a great ruler, why is there a mob in every major city yelling for his removal?

It doesn't speak well for his ability to demonstrate that to the people.

Also, it was pro-Mubarak thugs that beat up journalists. The anti-Mubarak mobs want the press to be reporting on what is going on, not have a media blackout.

Logic fail.