Well Lando, at least we know it is not you demonstrating this so called intelligence

So, everyone here wants a forum policy change? Let's take a look at what we can do to help. We want something that compromises Kestas's wish to allow complete freedom of speech, and each individual user's views on what is appropriate and what is not.

This is difficult to do with policy, because each individual user's view on what is too far will be different. Policy has to draw the line at a specific point, and that point will always be too far for part of the community and not far enough for most of the rest. Last time we tried to draw this line, people like YellowJacket, Draugnar, Synapse and Krellin went beserk to the extent that we had to bring Abge back.

So, what solution appeases everyone? It would have to be one where every user determined their own line, and the forum only showed things that they found appropriate...

Oh hey, that's the mute button!

If any of you actually wanted to clear the forum of Mapleleaf, you would mute him; that way you would never have to see anything he writes again. Evidently none of you do, because you're all discussing what he has written, so I'd assume you've all read it and so haven't got him muted.

"Mute isn't enough."

This must be what everyone in the thread thinks, considering they haven't got Mapleleaf muted. So, why would people think that the mute isn't enough?

I think (correct me if I am wrong) it is because people know that, while they can't see anything Maple posts, other people will still see it and so the forum quality is still being pulled down. However, the forum's quality has increased to the level you desire for you, and so everything is solved for you. Additionally, everyone else has the option to raise the forum's quality to the level they desire using the mute button as well.

Essentially, if nobody wants to see what Mapleleaf is saying, then everyone should mute him. However, for the benefit of those people who either actually want to see what he has to say (not sure if there's anyone who does, but there might be), or those people who get kicks out of insulting him/attempting to debate with him, there's no point in banning or silencing him. If you've muted him, you've done that for yourself. Why force everyone to raise the forum to the same quality if they don't want to?

TL;DR Use the mute button.

Feel free to elaborate on that ssoren, how have you come to that conclusion?

No, I kinda do agree with Draug on this. For the most part us minors can handle "grown up talk". (A notable exception being conservative man)

There are things however, that people shouldn't be saying; no matter what their age. There need to be limits, no matter how slight. Maplepoo, (hahaha my autocorrect now suggests that word), has clearly crossed the line...

Just to be clear, this is not an official moderator post.

Oh wait, ssorenn disagrees with Draugnar??? Ugh, now what do I do?! If only I wasn't so darn impressionable, or had the ability to think critically... Maybe then I'd know who was right...

@ ssorenn: If kids can get beaten, raped, abused mentally and physically, and all sorts of other shit at home, then they should be able to handle what they see on the internet.

Don't argue with Lando. He'll beat you up by using words you're too politically correct to say and then call you out because you won't stoop down to his level.

Regarding what's important ...

Yeah, there should be some rule on this forum against hate speech and intentionally offensive material. The mods and admins should discuss it with kestas ASAP because it's probably the biggest issue on the forum right now. Once there is one, I'm sure maple will get himself silenced and banned without much haste.

Yeah, Slyguy/Draug, minors can handle adult conversations, but mapleleaf in particular doesn't hold adult conversations. If he did, we wouldn't have this conversation.

We should also realize that mapleleaf is laughing his ass off at us and enjoys this attention, so if he's not going to be punished in any way for the outright terrible things he says, let's agree to stop giving him attention for it.

With my mod hat on, I'll say that any changes to policy should not be appealed to us, but to the big guy upstairs. Kestas wants a relatively unmoderated forum, and until he changes his mind we cannot do anything such as ban mapleleaf or silence him for posting what he does.

"If kids can get beaten, raped, abused mentally and physically, and all sorts of other shit at home, then they should be able to handle what they see on the internet."

This stuff is all outlawed for a reason in pretty much every country that has a clue...

Outlaw it all you want, it still happens in every country, and most of it goes unreported.

"If certain people on this website actually demonstrated intelligence rather than simply yelling as loud as they can without a particular point then perhaps you would find that intelligent people like mapleleaf would not be nearly so frustrated."

Did anyone else find this comment hilariously stupid?

If your a kid and the worst thing going for you is seeing something disturbing on the internet, you should count your blessings.

I am a regular poster on a liberal politics blog, where things get heated, and I will tell you , ALL of the personal insults, including most of this thread would get hidden in a heart beat.

(Hiddens happen with the -1s outnumber +1s by 3:1 and there are at least two. It's a good system)

The answer the question is "a moderation system that sends all that kind of stuff into internet hell"

@ captainmeme: Please explain to me how I can use the mute button to avoid seeing jmo (a mod, who I therefore cannot mute) hurling ALL CAPS ABUSE at mapleleaf?

FWIW I have emailed Kestas.

Trip, what are you talking about? Yeah, kids are raped and beaten by their parents, and yeah, sometimes they get away with it. Why should we hold ourselves to such a morally disgraceful standard here?

So basically trip supports a forum in which anything that isn't actually evidence of real-life child abuse by the poster is absolutely fine.

I think that jmo needs a time out, as an example to all american bullies. His behavior has been embarrassing, to say the least. Some of you have posted some hurtful comments about me, and it's really made me bad about myself. This is not politically correct.

@captain - I have the mute used on maple. But I can't mute jmo and jmo is making things worse. So why can't we mute a mod when a mod is being a douchenozzle to the forum at large with his attitude towards one individual?

#made me feel bad#

My point is that I don't want the rules of the forum to be based on protecting children from the world.

"With my mod hat on, I'll say that any changes to policy should not be appealed to us, but to the big guy upstairs. Kestas wants a relatively unmoderated forum, and until he changes his mind we cannot do anything such as ban mapleleaf or silence him for posting what he does. "

Maybe not, but you can *not* contribute to the problem especially as we can't mute you all when you are assholes.

And I agree with trip. This is an adult forum. We should be *very* judicious in what we ban and maybe consider no formal policy, but instead provide a warning much as abge did in the thread (I unmuted maple long enough to read the locked thread).

Gold is right, you should send your requests to Kestas. We've been having these discussions as mods to an extent, but this thread here serves as a very valuable gauge of what the community thinks on this.

Also trip, your logic seems to be: excesses exist, therefor excesses are acceptable. That's totally the other way round.

The fact that mods cannot be muted does mean that they should not be posting things like that. I don't think Jmo thought it through before posting in the thread. I haven't talked to him yet, but I can assure you that those kinds of posts will not come from a mod/admin again unless a way of muting moderators is implemented (perhaps by having a button that allows a mod to make an 'official post' which bypasses mutes, but otherwise muting them works as normal).

“It's offensive and cares little for the emotions and well-being of others.
“Well-Being” Are you fucking kidding me? You *truly feel you are being *harmed* by forum posts on web dip? If you are going to let your emotions be toyed with by the random acts of the internet, please log off NOW and disconnect your modem. You drama queens need to get a grip, and maybe ask Mommy or Daddy to monitor your internet use.

@ ssorenn: If kids can get beaten, raped, abused mentally and physically, and all sorts of other shit at home, then they should be able to handle what they see on the internet.

so 5 wrongs make another wrong right?

As far as moderation policy goes, I prefer a more laid-back approach with one rule: no child porn. Aside from that, I say anything goes. Everyone's got a mute button and everyone can close his browser and go outside.

In terms of scaring other users away, is that really happening? I see a lot of posts saying that a forum full of "hate" (however defined) scares people away, but does anyone have proof of this? It seems to me to be more like speculation based on individual tipping points, so to speak.

There is no absolute definition of something that is "hateful" or "offensive". That's something determined by people. So why should we have any universal policy?