And you were correct. It was three posts later when I responded to ogion...

"Draugnar Online (11 (G))
New 12:40 PM



Ogion, no, we can't discriminate against a protected class, but gays aren't protected at this time. "

I neither understand how this is a 'circle jerk' nor what Draugnar's position is on this issue. This thread has been thoroughly confusing.

"Ogion, no, we can't discriminate against a protected class, but gays aren't protected at this time."

That was simply to clarify to Ogion when he claimed that 'gays' were a protected class. That had nothing to do with what your position was on the issue, or what services you felt discrimination was permissible in. As I said, your statements here have been very incoherent.

@Putin, it's not you, I was talking about y2k, whose response to mine was a pretty blatantly disingenuous straw man that (imo) revealed a lack of willingness to discuss the question. You were fine all the way through, and I appreciate it.

"Should a baker be legally allowed to cite religious reasons for refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding? Does the religious comfort (freedom is pushing it) of individuals outweigh the marginalizing effect this has on a select part of the population?"
Yes, in my opinion a private corporation has the right to refuse to service anyone for any reason.

So we can all agree that a shop selling suits for men is discriminatory against women then? And unless they sell pink shirts they're probably against the gays too. Burn them bigots.

But then Frasces isn't a black man in the south I am guessing

I love me those US debates about the gays though. Makes me remind how y'all are about a couple of decades behind the curve compared to most the rest of the Western world. A backward nation, is that the correct term for it?

Yeah, like Europe doesn't have racial issues and that place called Russia is so advanced in their thinking on gay rights...

"I love me those US [...] gays though."

Glad you like our gays.

Yeah Draugnar, I like you.

Cool. You thought you were going to offend me, but some of the kindest, most caring, smartest, and, quite honestly, best people I know are gay. I miss my friend Gary...

Less then 1/3 of European countries and 1/7 of all countries allow same sex marriage, how is America behind the times?

@Draugnar

I didn't think that would offend you at all, girl. Why would you say that?

@Fasces

Firstly, 1/3 is more than twice 1/7. Secondly same sex marriage is not at all the only gay rights issue. We're talking about refusing to provide them services here for instance.

and in most states you can't bar people from your business due to sexual orientation.

America is more conservative then most developed countries, but that hardly makes them behind the times. And you are running under the assumption that progressivism is correct and conservatism is barbaric, and while I side with progressives on many issues, I don't think progressivism should be more accepted then conservatism.

Well, Fasces, we had these kind of debates about the gays twenty years ago. You'll see. Twenty years down the line a lot of conservatives in the US will be championing gay rights and act as though they always have.

Oscar - I lpves me the women folk too. You're new here or hoi would know of my proclivity for the 16 and 17 year old young women who loved next door in my old neighborhood. :-)

@Putin,

You misstated the law. The civil rights act prohibits

"discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."

You claimed that it prohibited "arbitrary discrimination," but it doesn't -- just a few types.

Well Oscar, given that most people in America support gay marriage (55% in recent polls), again you can't say America is behind the times.

I also agree that 20 years from now gay marriage will be on the books given how popular it is among youth, however that doesn't mean progressivism is right. I doubt progressives argue the current laws are right, so arguing what laws are or will be on the books doesn't argue for merit.

For the record I support gay marriage, however I do oppose laws requiring people to serve gays if it opposes there religion.

Religious rights trump gay rights, in my opinion.

"Well Oscar, given that most people in America support gay marriage (55% in recent polls), again you can't say America is behind the times."

That's great Fasces. I haven't checked any polls but where I live we probably reached those 55% about twenty years ago. Currently it's likely a lot closer to 90%. So yeah, I can say you are behind the times on this particular issue.

"Religious rights trump gay rights, in my opinion."

That's the backward stuff I love so much. Thanks for that.

Oh, and also, I never mentioned progressivism. Where I live progressives and conservatives alike support gay rights. Twenty years ago it a was a progressive matter here too though. So again, you're behind the times on this issue in the US. No doubt about it.

Where you from?

I'm Dutch.

Nothing better than Europeans and their pompous hypocrisy.

Get back to us on progressivism when your sports matches don't still involve people regularly throwing banana peels at black players on the field.

Again, PE, I wasn't talking about progressivism, just about gay rights. I'm not much of a sports fan myself, but yeah, I agree, US sports fans are generally much better behaved than European ones (although I'd rather call them hooligans than fans). It's a real problem over here. And frankly, racism amongst those hooligans isn't even the worst of it. They're violent against a lot of people.

I'm Canadian btw, since you keep calling me an American.

Fasces, we appreciate the honesty, but I think I speak for all the Americans here when I say you're totally welcome to keep quiet on that and accept the designation.

No, I did not misstate the law.

http://jackcentral.com/opinion/2013/03/opinion-family-discriminated-against-in-golden-corral-restaurant/

dammit, oscar too good

solid defusing of troll bait, 10/10