ND M13 comparisons
I have never compared play-styles from two different games before to build a case. I will try to make this relatively brief and include (RIP Goldfinger :\ ) read on ND as well, and the EOD from D5.
----------------------------
Page 5
ghug: “In fact, the ND doth protest too much. %%VOTE ND”
ND: “@SkiingCougar: "Ok ghug and krillen should be on our votes I reckon"
-Who is "OUR" ?”
skiingcougar: “And ghug obviously is in support of you”
--------------------------------
Page 7
y2k: “I'm suspicious of ND and yoyo, i don't like their questions that seem to be more filler to raise suspicion than actual interest in finding scum.”
-------------------
Facts
ND often refers to M13 as the dream team.
In M13 ND shows up page 2 to comment on the setup, and yoyo follows right after with a post. and a vote.
In M17(our current game) ND posts first on page one and just a few posts later yoyo mentions M13 but in relation to Maniac’s joke post including the word “Others”.
yoyo posts a vote.
----------------
Brains Opinion + Facts
By page 4 of M13 ND shows up to offer a fairly sizeable post asking multiple people questions.
Page 3 of our current game ND shows up to talk to Jamiet about millers.
ND asks a lot of questions to the players on page 3 as well an identical blueprint of his M13 play, y2k, Jamiet, reedeer1 and then suddenly votes for reedeer1.
------------------------------
Brains Opinion
So far nothing that would make anyone turn their heads or bat an eye. ghug posed the question at one point how would the sniper know who his teammates are. I would think the sniper would be looking for references and clues from people.
By page 7 of M13 yoyo had been a much more heavily involved poster in the game than in our current game.
Page 3 of Our current game, xorxes, ND, and Warden are speaking almost every other post with a few mix in’s of krellin.
WardenDresden and Reedeer1 combine to use the word “a(nd)” 15 times over the course of only 2 posts.
reedeer1: “@ND first vote I am not sure who to vote at all. I am not getting many messages from the people around me, and warden seems to be on the town side. maby I should vote no lynch, but I will only do that if I don't like who warden is voting for. In retrospect maybe I shouldn't have sheeped, but I don't yet know where to place my vote, so I will stick with that for now. Also a mafia wouldn't sheep right away... or would they...? my sheeping warden gives me the same chance of getting it right if I sheeped someone else randomly.”
--------------------------------------------
Page 4-15 Comparisons to M13.
ND: “@SkiingCougar: These games usually start during the DAY phase so I assume that is the case here, but I just checked the post that started the game and didn't see a specific DAY/NIGHT cycle listed.”
----------------------------
Brains Opinion + Facts
So at this point by only page 4 its possible that Warden, xorxes, yoyo, reedeer1, and ND have all identified each other-to each other.
Rather than quote the entire game to you I will summarize Day by Day similarities and a few color comments by ND in general.
(M13)
1. ND had not yet voted for anyone, but again remember in that game yoyo and toemato were doing more of the talking. But by Page 9, he enters a vote and posts a substantial novella style post typical of his repertoire. Says his vote remains squarely on (damian).
(Our Current Game)
1. ND builds substantial case vs Vecna and concludes Day 1 on a Vecna Wagon. Much of this game promises his vote remains squarely on Vecna.
----------------------------
Brains Opinion
So I took a look at the middlegame of M13 for comparisons in playstyle to the middle game of M17. Turns out there is no comparison because ND was dead by then in M13. (Remember ND was on the y2k wagon, and the OBGYN at the Hammer drop, and this time he kept his vote squarely on Vecna. Earlier in the game he was criticized for voting for an UNCC’d PR. When it came time for Warden to be hammered he said “Guys why are we lynching an UNCC’d PR”.)
ND died in M13 much sooner, and has lived a lot longer in this game. For nearly the final 100 pages of that game ND was already dead.
Of particular note in my findings is really just reiterating what we already know, ND voted for reedeer1 for a time on Day 1 until settling on Vecna who he has been fixated on all game. I cant entirely dismiss that perhaps the animosity between the two of them is actually contrived and a game of lies.
ND only breifly deviated from this obsession to build a meme case which he eventually left in the dumpster behind a KFC.
If the Mafia team was composed of mostly lurker types who would be the guy they would want to push through to the endgame who “seems” useful?
1. skiingcougar - modkilled EOD2
2. yoyo - blown up SOD3
3. xorxes - caught by cop scan and lynched EOD3
4. warden - fake claimed and caught red handed SOD4
5. ND (both building cases often that lead/led nowhere)
6. Vecna (both building cases that lead/led nowhere)
If the Maf team had a talker I posit that it would be ND to use to make cases that go to nowhere in hopes it eventually sticks; is my guess. It is just a guess and I welcome anyone to add to this concept. If ND and Vecna were teammates for example, it would actually make even more sense, but that would require me to re-read all of Vecna and I am tired. this is all for now.
Oh and here is a reiteration of the ND Wagon Report
------------------------------------------------------
ND - Day 1, redeer for most of the day. Starts Vecna wagon and ends on it. D2, joins y2k wagon (ghug, krellin, Jamiet had been on/off. Warden on at time of vote). Ends on y2k wagon. D3, Starts captainmeme wagon (goldfinger, OB, brainbomb). 3rd to vote for xorxes (Maniac, OB [Chaqa on/off]). Ends on wagon. D4, 6th on Warden wagon. 1st on OB counter-wagon. Ends on OB (possibly due to hammer). D5, Ends on Vecna.
Days ended on wagons: 2, Days ended on counter-wagons: 2
-----------------------------------------------------
Page 11
ghug: “ND, do you find the coming to kill you in your sleep thing to be alignment indicative?”
ND: “@Ghug and @Jamiet: About the quote from Skiing: “Thanks demon. Vote for me, I'm the mafia. I'm coming to kill you in your sleep :)” it was strange and I think this should have been pushed when stated. Yes, it could be a new player joking around or it could be an actual role admission made under the guise of a joke.
To @Ghug: I also pointed out Vecna’s: “Rabbits get eaten” as something to follow up on. When I read it, I thought it sounded threatening. What did you think of that statement? “
---------------------
Brains Opinion
He addresses the question but very quickly redirects attention away from the question back onto his fixation.
----------------------
ND shows an entirely different face on Page 15 however
ND: “
@Ghug: I have seen your push for Vecna and your mini case on 11, yes. I still like Redeer1 the most because my questioning of Redeer1 in the first few pages brought up some really scummy things. Mainly because Redeer1 was willing to simply attach his vote to another player two hours in because he was so sure after two hours that Warden was town. That raised a lot of alarms for me and still does. I plan to revisit Redeer1 in due time and I encourage you and everyone else to take a look.”
------------------
Brains Opinion + Facts
Then he actually never did, and voted Vecna instead and built a massive case on Vecna after ghug urged the action.
-----------------------
ND Page 16
ND: “@Xorxes and @Wjessop:
Thoughts on Wj case on Maniac:
1. Definitely a strange introduction post, but this is Maniac and the Maniac does strange things. I think Meta needs to be considered, at least on page 1. Remember that game where he talked in rhymes for the first day? Or that game he used past game statistics to try and prove a point which I disproved? Yeah.
2. I am not sure I understand the 10:30 significance? Is it because the post was exactly thirty minutes before game start (after role pm’s) or is there some other significance to this number? Plus, I don’t really like using evidence from outside the game thread.
3. Wjessop do you think that Maniac is bussing DemonRHK early then?
4. Sounds like I need to see a DemonRHK case to glimpse the full Maniac-DemonRHK connection.
5. Interesting way to connect Maniac to Vecna and DemonRHK then. So do you think that Vecna may be scum as well? That would correspond to Ghug’s mini-case and my own thoughts on Vecna and the suspicious quote from earlier in the thread.
6. You may have something with point 6 “good to have Jamie back” does look like a buddying example.
7. Has Maniac been the only person this game to bring up PR’s though? How is this more significant than say Goldy’s virgins?
I think there are some good points here, but I still am a little bit flabbergasted as to why Redeer1 isn’t picking up more steam. I plan to do my own case on Redeer1 before deadline. I think the buddying example is a good point, but I am not sure that this is absolute proof. “
-------------------------
Page 17
Vecna refers to ND as “ND: our mighty seer”
--------------------
Page 19 is the big Vecna Case. I responded that points 1-8 of his initial case on vecna was the biggest bag of suppositional hot air I have ever seen in my 3 games now of playing Mafia. and he refuses to accept any other possibility.
------------------
PAGE 22 (BIG SCUM TELL)
2 posts before wjessop had just dropped dead, here is what Warden has to say.
-------------------------------
WardenDresden: “@ND I think you might have a point about Vecna's method of rebuttal, and it seems like this is going to be a 2-horse race between Demon and Vecna at this point.
@Demon you are making a lot of emotional pleas and they smack of someone desperate to live for more reasons than this just being your first game. Plus that whole bit you had about Maniac's vote being to get you to claim early seems totally suspicious. I'm still watching you and think you might still hang for it later if not today.
@Vecna ND has a point that most of your rebuttal was formed by making fun of him rather than actually saying he was wrong about anything. Plus the whole "scan me" bit is totally messed up no matter what. Why is scanning you so much more valuable than anyone else, and what makes you think you won't be night killed early on since you think you're so good?
So I'll give Demon a little bit of a break and pull my vote over for the moment. %%VOTE Vecna”
--------------
Brains Opinion
##VOTE ND
It's Valis's Birthday
)
)
)
)