That last one was day 5 ofcourse, but the important thing is that we see a nice voting block of people being on the same person when it matters. I put attention on jamiet being a probably town PR. Day 2 the scum also knew Y2K was truthfully claiming.

In both instances we see the voting BLOCK of Ghug, captainmeme, Krellin & Goldfinger.

Our remaining scum are in this group.

And my best guess its either GHUG&CAPTAINMEME or GHUG&KRELLIN

Ghug has been defending captainmeme several times. He answers his questions for him, and captainmeme follows ghugs lead in the important moments (for scum). He townreads meme very highly, while meme has basicly done nothing except pop in at EOD and vote for whoever Ghug is voting for.

GHUG & KRELLIN have the exact same playstyle (allthough Krellin is pushing it over the top slightly harder) - Maybe they discussed in scumchat that this was to be their thing? Tons of lurkers and two antagonistic people just attacking everyone, causing chaos and misdirection everywhere. They both attack every post, calling it shitty logic, terrible play, horrible contributions etc etc. Especially when they lynch a town (pr) IT WAS ALL THEIR OWN FAULT FOR THEIR SHITTY PLAY. They have done this every time. HOWEVER, NOTICE HOW THEY NEVER (hardly ever?) ATTACK EACHOTHER. If they really had towns best interest at heart, they wouldve criticed the others play way more often. They have not done this in any instance - because it is their agreed upon tactic?

Notice also how Ghug hasnt been making his own cases. His voting logic is erratic and he usually just takes one argument, and then focusses on WHY EVERYONE ELSE is -NOT- thinking that his current target is scummy.

This is not how Ghug has been playing in previous mafia games where he was town. Ghug would not;
-Carelessly kill off claimed town PR's.
-Townread people that have hardly participated at all
-Just jump on whatever is an easy lynch at facevalue, WITHOUT CRITICALLY OVERTHINKING IT (see him instantly jumping on OB_Gyn after the FAKECLAIM for example, no critical thinking whatsoever).

WE LYNCH GHUG TOMORROW OR WE LOSE
WE LYNCH GHUG TOMORROW OR WE LOSE
WE LYNCH GHUG TOMORROW OR WE LOSE
WE LYNCH GHUG TOMORROW OR WE LOSE

You're full of shit, Vecna.

I pointed out a factual issue with what you said to meme. He's still welcome to answer questions. Townreading someone despite them lurking doesn't magically make us both scum.

Krellin and I attack each other's play plenty. I haven't been calling him out as being scum because I townread him, in much the way I haven't called brainbomb or meme out recently. Your two proposed teammates for me are literally just "look, townreads who've voted similarly, must be scum". That's how scum operate.

As for your points against me:
I hate cases. They take forever, they don't provoke a ton of discussion, and they can easily be made to look good irrespective of the actual scumminess of their subjects. They're such a big part of site meta because of me, and I regret that every game once we get to page 40 or so and the diminishing returns on the time commitment become so large that they're just not worth doing at all. This doesn't mean I don't argue my cases. I had several arguments against Jamie that I repeated for days. I've made comprehensive arguments against guak and against gold.

I've killed off one town PR. Not plural. And I did so for good reason, even if I didn't agree with it. To say the scum would have killed him and thus we should have waited a day is foolish. Not only is his role less critical than, say, a cop or vig, but the scum aren't going to nightkill anyone who is going to distract scumhunters and draw votes, especially when people will become more likely to kill that person the longer they stay alive.

Participation isn't alignment indicative. It's our job to try to read people who aren't participating. I don't see anything suspicious about meme as opposed to just plain bad. I do see suspicious things about reedeer, and I definitely want to take a closer look tomorrow. I absolutely see suspicious things about guak, which should be clear to anyone reading the thread. It's not "people", it's person. Your English is good enough that I know these plurals are rhetorical lies and not accidents, so stop.

I do consider things critically. I looked at OB's claim and immediately did all the thinking I needed to. I couldn't see a rational reason for anyone from either side to claim, so the sensible conclusion was that he was telling the truth. Just because I don't take a long time to consider things doesn't mean I don't do it at all.

I've played a shitty game, as have most of us at this point, and I definitely deserve a close look, but I'm not guilty. There have been rational, stated reasons for everything I've done, and no amount of looking back and saying "EoD made him clearly town because reasons; I'm so smart" changes that, so quit it with the I told you so bullshit, especially when you didn't even tell us so. Take a look at my play and ask yourself if it's actually different from my past play or just suffers from a lot of wrongness.
WE LYNCH GHUG TOMORROW AND WE LOSE
WE LYNCH GHUG TOMORROW AND WE LOSE
WE LYNCH GHUG TOMORROW AND WE LOSE
WE LYNCH GHUG TOMORROW AND WE LOSE
APPARENTLY DONALD TRUMP IS RIGHT AND SCREAMING SOMETHING OVER AND OVER AGAIN MAKES IT TRUE

Even if *you* didn't agree with it

@Vecna: THANK YOU!!!! Finally someone sees the light.

@town: I can't believe you idiots followed ghug into yet another mislynch

So Ghug, do you agree with me on my statement regarding the voting block?

Insofar as it's factual. I think we should all be given a closer look, but I don't think both scum are necessarily in that group. The mafia haven't lost a single player to the scumhunting process. I don't think the votes have been desperate enough for them to have to vote as a bloc.

I thought Vecna was my buddy, guak.

I only know you are scum, everything else is relative

Also, two votes hardly count as a bloc to be honest. I am not concerned yt about whether both are voting together now or not. I am concerned by the fact that you have led the lynch of so many innocent town, including claimed PR, and that you have been reluctant to even join in the lynches of proven scum.

ghug = scummy scum

9 players remaining, 2 scum, 1 amnesiac that can be anything, 1 town pr, 2 millers, 3 VT's.

So guak, how about you do something useful and find his scumbuddy?

Guess if we have a remaining cop, or an amnesiac turned cop, he's gonna have a hard time. Especially considering we might still have a lawyer.

So ND, wheres this case against brainbomb you've been musing about for like a week now?

I have a case on ND its still pretty raw. It deals with page 4 and the fact xorxes and warden use the word a(nd) nearly 20 times in 2 posts. much of page 4 is reedeer1, xorxes, warden and ND talking. could be a pow wow

Page 3**

Vewcna -- did you actually try to use voting records against me up there? Seriously? After I Day 1 did NOT vote to lynch a townie, and proceeded to help lynch two mafia after that? Are you fucking high?

If you are going to use voting block analysis, at least pull your head out of your ass and look at WHAT those voting blocks were voting for, dumbass.

Vecna --> Scum Read +1 for BLATANT abuse of voting records and shit poor analysis...which can only, at this point in the game, be INTENTIONAL. Either that, or you are a blithering moron, and there is no value to you word.

@Vecna : "GHUG & KRELLIN have the exact same playstyle (allthough Krellin is pushing it over the top slightly harder) -"

This too is one of THE MOST idiotic things I have ever read. lol I defy ANYONE in this game to accuse ghug and I of having a similar play style. I do believe you you owe ghug an apology, fucktard.

@ghug: "I thought Vecna was my buddy, guak. "

What you are witnessing with guak -- with his desparate, random "scum parings", is perhaps just a clever scum hoping that nobody is paying attention as he ebbs and flows through various "I know who they are..." pronouncements.

Possibility -- Vecna is HIS scum partner that he is willing to sacrifice to prove his innocence...but not before partnering with him to lynch ANYONE that is town...

guak claims to have such vast knowledge and is so very sure of things....so why the fluctuating read on Vecna? Because it's part of the plan....

READ -- IMPROTANT INFO

This sudden lovefest between guak and Vecna is disconcerting --- and comes about WHEN??? Hmmmm...after they have some initial consultation time in QT....?????

Think on that, people. Chew on it a bit and let the foul taste coat your tongue...like when the cat pees in your cereal when you aren't looking...

Oh noes, you voted to kill 2 mafia. AT A TIME WHEN EVERYONE WAS ON XORXES AND WARDEN.

This argument means NOTHING AT ALL.

You were on Y2K, our dead drunk.
You were on Jamiet together with Ghug, when we REALLY NEEDED a proper lynch, and you had been pushing for reedeer1 ALL DAY. Only because he mightve also been a PR.

Your voting record stinks of scum. Im not abusing shit, im stating facts.

Youre yelling for people to be idiots for their D1 lynch, but your votes on D2 and D5 were what really harmed the town.

In fact, let me check later whether you ever tried to vote for Captainmeme, or have been critical of his absence.

Krelling + captainmeme for scumteam

The desperation shines through your silly act.

Time to lynch Krelling, all aboard. CHOO-CHOO

@Vecna: "So ND, wheres this case against brainbomb you've been musing about for like a week now?"

-It takes me a bit to work on my case Vecna, but thank you for the interest. I have other obligations and work. I also participate in the game outside of the night cycles (unlike you).

@Brainbomb

Was that you case on me? That I use the word "and" on Page 3? Cool.

Vecna - silly boy. And there you are demonstrating for me EXACTLY the fallacy of examinging fucking voting patterns. You stupid twat, I had voted for Warden EARLY in the day, BEFORE there was a fucking train, you idiot!!

Fuck man, where the hell have you been all this game that suddenly you are crawling out of the slime with your vast fucking intellect to pull guilt out of your ass by accusing someone who helped kill scum. IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE VOTING PATTERNS then USE THEM DICKWEED!

It seems to me that you have a FOREGONE CONCLUSION in your head...and if someone voted with a mafia lynch train and you like them, then they had noble intentions. If they voted on the mafia lynch train and you don't like them, they were being devious.

You stupid fuckwad.

Go ahead, dickhead, bring that lynch train on me, big boy!

Vecna -- I doubt I have ever cast a serious vote for meme. NOBODY HAS, MORON.

I think all this anal examination of voting patterns shold maybe focus on you, if it is all so damned important.

Do me a favor Vecna -- put up an HONEST SELF-EXAMINATION of your voting pattern. Let's see if you have any fucking integrity. Don't give me explanation of why you voted wrong when you did....I want you to examine yourself AS IF YOU ARE SOMEONE ELSE EXAMINING YOU.

Let's see if you have even a shred of integrity.

My guess....

@GUAK -- You have mentioned any number of times the idea that ghug has been through a major shift in behavior in this game versus other game. I have asked you this before, and you answered...but please indulge me and everyone and give us another run-down of this psychological change you have witnessed.

Specifically, this is what I'm seeking to understand:

1. What was ghug like in other games as Town
1a. Did his play evolve over time as town in past games (from game to game)

2. What was ghug like in other games as Scum
2a. Did his play evolve over time as scum in other games (from game to game)

3. If ghug's play in this game directly parallel to previous behavior, if so, which?
3a. If ghug's play is unique in this game, how is it unique, and what can you draw form that?


I know this is a very big question here -- but it seems that you and guak are at each other's throats. I see both of you as putting forth great effort...towards what end, none can tell until one of you flips, I suspect. My gut tells me that one of you dines in the Capital, and one of your is a true brother...and I need help figuring this out.



I'm dismissing the idiocy of Vecna right now -- he's been overall a useless moron mostly this entire game, and only seems to have crawled out of the woodwork lately...for that, I have no use for him and distrust him greatly. Because we don't have a consistent record of his behavior this game as he was an early lurker, it is difficult to see if he has changed his behavior in this game.....and therefore my gut is to suspect him.

I suspect Vecna may be trying to use you, buddying up to you because you meet his ends...or something else. Can't put my finger on it...but he's definitely slgith scum to me now. I know you seem to be working with him right now and I don't blame you because you are in sudden alignement with each other....I would just ask you to ask yourself -- Why is Vecna *suddenly* on your side?

Which takes me to the real idea...



***** Vecna / Reeder ******

Damn...I think I just convinced myself of something...

@ND its raw. Im at work teaching today about Architecture. should Be quite cool. I will be around this evening we can compare cases against each other. my theory is you are posting not substantially but just making large posts to "seem" substantial. in M13 you tunnelled damian heavily but died early. your still alive here so i'm simply looking into you.