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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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telthien (180 D)
02 Aug 16 UTC
(+1)
Come join a brand-new Diplomacy Discord server, for all your knifing needs!
I've created a Discord server for general Diplomacy chat, as a general place for people to find games, chat about games, and try not to kill each other too badly.

If you want to join up, just go here!: https://discord.gg/TEsAsyM - Thanks, and welcome!
1 reply
Open
Lifespan (109 D)
01 Aug 16 UTC
vdiplomacy login problems
Apparently my username doesn't seem to exist on vdiplomacy. I have tried contacting the mods about this but I have received no response months later. Does anyone here know what I can do, or if I am allowed to create another account identical to this one on vdip?
6 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
28 Jul 16 UTC
That Right...
...all that and a bag of chips.

Stuff that up your fine old dancing monkey butt...
6 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
26 Jul 16 UTC
Rio Olympics
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/olympics/australia-team-wont-move-into-unfinished-athletes-village/ar-BBuKzqE?ocid=mailsignout
10 replies
Open
leon1122 (190 D)
31 Jul 16 UTC
Moderate Islam
https://youtu.be/EhpRlkrMWy8

The video is only 3 minutes long, but it's insightful for learning the beliefs of the average Muslim.
5 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 DX)
23 Jul 16 UTC
3 game gunboat tourney.
25pt WTA 36 hour phase with agreement to ready whenever possible
23 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
14 May 16 UTC
(+1)
The 2016 Local Tournament - Round 3
The full ruleset is available here: https://tinyurl.com/webDip2016local-rules

YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE RULES IF YOU PLAY IN THE TOURNAMENT
19 replies
Open
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
16 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
Ancient Civilization Tournament
See Inside for Details
Page 15 of 21
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@GM - can you back me up here? Greece was conquered by Rome before the agreed start date for the Byzantine Empire. Hence, it should not be given credit
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
18 Jul 16 UTC
I would say that we had a winner - the Romans.

The "Byzantines" didn't consider themselves such. They called themselves Romans. The other nations of the world called them the Roman Empire, or the Eastern Roman Empire.

Athens was significant but just a blip on the radar against the Romans.
TrPrado (461 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
The Byzantines weren't even a concept or under historical consideration when Greece was conquered by Rome, which is another entry.
TrPrado (461 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
For the sake of the tournament, the Byzantines are considered to have reigned starting with Arcadius in a portion of an empire that already spoke Greek, already had roads built for it, and already had its religion popularized.
"Athens was significant but just a blip on the radar against the Romans" in size, yes

but how much of Roman culture is Athenian? religion/mythology, philosophy, even language...
ND (879 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
@Goldfinger: Why does my background matter? I have taken an undergraduate class about Athens during the 5th Century BC. I have also taken two undergraduate classes about the Roman Empire. I have taken one Art History class about Classical Art. I have never had a course directly about the Byzantine Empire though. Like I have mentioned previously the Byzantine Empire is understudied in the United States. During my M.A. in history work I have not taken a class on the Byzantine Empire (there were none). Just because I haven't taken a class on them doesn't mean I haven't studied the period. I have read works about the Byzantine Empire and also studied them in my spare time.
well, OK. technically you should say that religion and language both have a common ancestor, and developed separately, but Athens perfected Proto Indo-European, and the Romans knew it.
@ND I have studied the Byzantines directly, they weren't the only aspect of the class, but we spent a lot of time on them, because they were so important. I think we know more about the Byzantines then you think.
ND (879 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
My case which I will publish later today will look at a couple of things. 1) Longevity of the Empire, 2) Conquests of the Empire, 3) Religious influences, 4) Legal influences, 5) Other Scientific and Architectural Achievements.

The Byzantine's outclass Athens in each of these categories. And I shall prove this later today with source citations.
ND - I just wanted to share some backgrounds and show that I'm not as I'll versed as you think so. I also wanted to know what background you had to justify calling both Athens and Persia backwaters
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
18 Jul 16 UTC
GM - for the purposes of this tournment Byzantine and Rome are separate entities. If you choose to weigh the successes of one as the successes of the other that is your own personal choice. But the official stance of this tournament is that both were seperate civs.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
18 Jul 16 UTC
It's like saying that AC/DC isn't the same because Bon Scott got replaced with Brian Johnson. Same thing, just different details.
TrPrado (461 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
Blame ND for specifically nominating the Byzantines :)
TrPrado (461 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
But also a lot of the contributions of "Rome" can't be attributed to "Byzantines" like an innovative political system or managing to control the whole Mediterranean for a considerable time or holding conquered lands.
TrPrado (461 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
Without the Athenian navy, the Achaemenids would have steamrolled the Greeks on sea.
ghug (5068 D(B))
18 Jul 16 UTC
##VOTE Athens

Fuck your noise.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
18 Jul 16 UTC
Constantinople shall rise again!
ND (879 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
I just don't get it.
##vote Athens. They Are Also better in civ
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
18 Jul 16 UTC
Chaqa- if you or others choose to consider either Byzantine or Rome as seperate entities then that is your own prerogative. The Byzantines were nominated seperate you from Rome, and there is solid reasoning to justify the separation. Byzantine and Roman culture while similar is not the same and while Byzantine considered itself Rome the former Roman Empire lead from Rome was still in existence albeit limited. Thusly saying the achievements of Byzantine after its separation from western Rome are the achievements of Rome is like saying everything slash's band, velvet revolver, should be considered an achievement of guns n roses
ND (879 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
"They Are Also better in civ"

-This contest has nothing to do with some silly game.
TrPrado (461 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
Anatolia-based countries are doomed.
@ND I waiting to hear your argument for the Byzantines...
I just hate this Byzantine argument. Its not like we attributed the achievements of Tyre to Carthage when we debated Carthage.
ND (879 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
(+1)

Conquest:

There were several very important phases of Byzantine conquest. 1) 533-554: Justinian's reign was successful in taking Italy, Sicily, North Africa. 2) Basil II and the Macedonian Dynasty (920-1042) were successful in retaking and conquering the Bulgar Kingdom, Armenia, parts of Levant, and the Danube is restored as the Empire's northern border. 3) The Komnenos Dynasty (1081-1180) restores Byzantine control to the shores of Asia Minor and interior Asia Minor. Now, it goes without saying that there were periods of decline and reversal. However, each major period of decline was followed by a restoration (for the most part). Total restoration? No, but partially each time. On the other hand the Athenians lost one war and that was it.. dust pan of history. Even after the fall of Constantinople in 1204 and loss of the city for sixty years it was retaken. This however did lead to the final period of decline and eventual fall to the Ottoman Turks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Byzantine_Empire

Religion:
The Great Schism was a religious schism between Rome and Constantinople. This event led to the separation of the Christian faith into two camps: Eastern Orthodox and Catholicism. There are up to 300 million Eastern Orthodox worshipers today. There are 1.2 billion practicing Catholics worldwide. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-21443313 and https://oca.org/questions/namerica/how-many-orthodox
How many practicing ancient Greek Pagans are they worldwide? Near zero I would imagine. Through this religious event between the Byzantine Empire and the Vatican we can see the formation of two of the world's major religious systems. The religious effects of the Byzantine Empire and this specific event continue to shape our modern world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

Law:
The Byzantine Empire preserved ancient Roman law, but also made their own codex, improvements, and new laws. For example in 438 Theodosius published a codex of 16 books of all standing laws from the Age of Constantine I to the present. But, in 518 Justinian began a decade long practice of codifying, expanding, improving, studying, and commissioning a series of commissions to develop a new legal code for the Empire. This led to the Corpus Iuris Civills which (basically) remained as the Empire's legal system until the fall of Constantinople. Now, there were other additions and improvements to these laws such as the Basillcs of Leo and the Farmer's Law (and so forth). The most important fact is that these legal codes and laws put forward by the Byzantine Empire INFLUENCED EVERYTHING. Legal traditions in Eastern Europe are still influenced by the Farmer's Law. Sharia Law was influenced by the Byzantine Empire, Anglo-American common law was influenced by the Byzantine Empire. Many of the world's current legal systems were influenced by the code but forward by Justinian. They still are TODAY.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_law

Longevity:
A pretty basic one. No one can dispute that the Athenian Empire outlasted the Byzantine Empire. The Athenian Empire lasted a little more than a hundred years. They lost the Peloponnesian War. After that their Empire was done. The Byzantine Empire went through long periods of military success and conquest and then declined only to reverse their fortunes on numerous occasions. They lasted over a thousand years. The empire held for over a thousand years. No comparison.

Other Achievements:
A major Byzantine invention was Greek fire. This weapon was unique for the ancient world. This weapon would be used during naval battles. Even today we don’t know exactly how they used this weapon during combat and what its composition was. However, at the time and when the Byzantine’s deployed it, well it was a game changer for naval combat. It is also said that the Byzantine’s developed flamethrowers and grenades. Furthermore they engineered siege equipment and innovated siege warfare with the hand trebuchet and counterweight trebuchet. Let’s not forget that they were master engineers as well that built the Hagia Sophia, Pendentive dome, Pointed arch bridge, ship mill, cross-in-square, and little Hagia Sophia.
http://www.ranker.com/list/list-of-byzantine-inventions/wayne-szalinski

Constantinople:
For our purposes we will be looking at Constantinople after 395. This includes the construction of the legendary Theodosian Walls built in 404/405. These walls held all invaders until 1204. These walls and fortifications protected the city of Constantinople for 800 years. Athens, for example, was burnt to the ground during the Greco-Persian Wars. We’ve already discussed the Hagia Sophia, which was a historical marvel, but there were other institutions in Constantinople worthy of mention. The Golden Gate and land walls for example or the University of Constantinople which was founded in 425 AD. (I am omitting institutions founded before 395), but I think it is worthy to note institutions such as the Imperial Library which contained the relics of the Library of Alexandria and preserved this knowledge until 1204 and 1453. This next graph will compare population size for a capital city. The population of a capital is indicative of the strength of the Empire as a whole. There are several different variations of this, but you can see for yourself. In 500, there is little dispute that Constantinople was the largest city in the world. Constantinople shows up on this list several times thereafter. It shows up tied for largest in 600 AD. It shows up again as a major city in 1000-1050. It shows up again from 1127-1153. Athens isn’t even on this city-population metric even at its height. As a city-state it is a backwater (at least concerning population) to the other great cities of the 5th Century BC to that there is no dispute.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities_throughout_history

Conclusion;
Through religion and law the Byzantine Empire still shapes the MODERN world. Through conquest and longevity the Byzantine Empire prolonged the ancient Roman Empire into the late Medieval period. The great city of Constantinople for portions of its history was unmatched and the largest center of civilization in the entire world. Through inventions and achievements new technologies and weapons were introduced (some of which can’t be figured out by our scientists today). Folks, this is the A-Team Empire. Athens is a D- Empire at best. Unfortunately though the US public education system is skewed towards Greece and Rome. I understand why people who are not familiar with this empire or its history think Athens (a small, remote, backwater) is a better Empire. It’s strange and bewildering, but I blame modern education. I know that competent historians would agree with me on this and that is all that matters to me.
TrPrado (461 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
"There were several very important phases of Byzantine conquest."
Managing to fully retain a conquest is also important, not just managing to conquer places.

"The Great Schism was a religious schism between Rome and Constantinople. This event led to the separation of the Christian faith into two camps: Eastern Orthodox and Catholicism. "
Congrats to the Popes' growing distrust of the East.

"How many practicing ancient Greek Pagans are they worldwide? Near zero I would imagine. "
A fact I would be more open to crediting with the Constantinian persecution of Paganism. And Gratian. And Valentinian II. And Theodosius. And the fact that Christianity was popular in Greece before it was popular in Rome. All of these things were before the reign of Arcadius.
ND (879 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
my point was that the religion of the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Orthodox) is practiced by more people today than the religion of Ancient Athens. Thanks for proving my point.

"Managing to fully retain a conquest is also important, not just managing to conquer places"
-Athens couldn't retain anything. They lost a war and their whole empire and never did anything militarily again. Thanks for proving my point.
ND (879 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
So why are you voting for Athens when you have proved both of my points and I have completely eviscerated Athens?
TrPrado (461 D)
18 Jul 16 UTC
"my point was that the religion of the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Orthodox) is practiced by more people today than the religion of Ancient Athens. Thanks for proving my point. "
This can't be attributed to Byzantine efforts though, since Athens chose Christianity before the Romans adopted it.
Thx for the criteria ND. Though you are completely ignoring cultural achievements, by your own criteria Byzantium should be spanked by Rome and Han China, at the very least.

At least try to appear objective next time though. I'm not going to argue with you, because anyone who calls both Athens and Persia D-list empires is not someone whom I will have an intellectual argument with. As far as ancient civilizations go, I would put Athens at a B at worst. D list is for like the Myceans, Syrians, etc

@GM - since this is an ancient civilization tournament, should we only consider events that happened in ancient times (before 500 AD, I believe)?

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623 replies
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
29 Jul 16 UTC
I'm in a state of ennui for two days
Why should I eat?
7 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
28 Jul 16 UTC
(+2)
Bail Funds
Here's something interesting I learned about today. They have them in NYC and soon CT, too. http://www.massbailfund.org/
22 replies
Open
griffinpup (100 D)
29 Jul 16 UTC
Live Game Starting in 30 Minutes!
Come join, it'll be fun!!! :D
1 reply
Open
SilentSamurai (112 D)
29 Jul 16 UTC
Live Classic in 5 minutes. Need 3 players!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=181472
1 reply
Open
SilentSamurai (112 D)
29 Jul 16 UTC
Live Ancient Coming Up
Ancient live game in an hour if you want to join:

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=181476
0 replies
Open
Pompeii (638 D)
28 Jul 16 UTC
Private game needing players
Hey guys me and my friends are trying to host a private game of diplomacy because we have a 24 hour train ride. Our skill levels are mixed with many of the players only playing their third or fourth game while a couple of us have been playing for years. If anyone is willing to join gameID=181450 let me know and I'll give you the password. The only stipulation is you need to be able to chat on kik messenger. Thank you!
0 replies
Open
peterlund (1310 D(G))
28 Jul 16 UTC
Michael Bloomberg at DNC
12 minutes of great advice.
https://youtu.be/C6GyphHLAmc
0 replies
Open
SilentSamurai (112 D)
27 Jul 16 UTC
One short for a live game in 20 minutes!!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=181433

Would love to have a full game in time!
1 reply
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
27 Jul 16 UTC
Mid-Stakes Gunboat
I've been getting more into Gunboats lately. Could I interest anyone in joining me for a 24 hour phase, 50 point Gunboat?
2 replies
Open
Droid (192 D)
27 Jul 16 UTC
How do you end a drawn game when 1 player doesn't vote to draw.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=180889#gamePanel
I am playing France, the Italian player won't vote draw. Nobody has moved positions for maybe 4, 5 or 6 moves. It's a pain to keep entering the same set of orders, it is obviously a draw. What to do?
2 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
24 Jul 16 UTC
(+1)
Mods, check my account because I'm now a userID=52861
Closed on Friday, moved in yesterday! A note to others: if you can, avoid buying and planing a wedding at the same time. Now I can get back to Diplomacy!
16 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
17 Jul 16 UTC
I'm in the Congo for two days
Who should I eat?
28 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
21 Jul 16 UTC
Republican Convention
Biggest shit show on earth?
459 replies
Open
sweetwatersam (1796 D)
24 Jul 16 UTC
New Classic Game for Seasoned Players
Seasoned DIP Vets - join new Classic game. Need tWo players
1 reply
Open
ghug (5068 D(B))
14 Jul 16 UTC
(+2)
Mafia XXII Signups
It's time for another one, folks.
323 replies
Open
????? (0 DX)
25 Jul 16 UTC
Civil disorder
How many missed moves until the game makes a country go into civil disorder?
4 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
08 Jul 16 UTC
Gun Control vs Hillary Clintons Emails vs Pokemon GO vs Black Lives Matter
DISCUS
117 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
21 Jul 16 UTC
How to be less abusive.
http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/07/cis-men-socialized-to-be-abusive/
4 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
22 Jul 16 UTC
just another world gunboat
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=181270
3 replies
Open
BlackJackP74 (263 D)
20 Jul 16 UTC
Modern Dip two possible CD Openings...but need quick help
Hello. I'd like to make known a Modern Dip game that I'm in that may require two extra players to fill in for possible CD's in the future.The game is called "The Kiss Hello". The game ID is 180855, but I'm unsure as to how to link it properly.
6 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
19 Jul 16 UTC
(+2)
webDip Chatroom
I'm bored. We should make a webDip chatroom. #brilliant
39 replies
Open
jv (75 DX)
15 Jul 16 UTC
Is there any 5 vs 5 games?
I really hate and tried of being stabbed all the time, there are so few players with honesty.
I just want to play a game with tactics and conversations, is there any possibility that to enter a 5 vs 5 (or fewer) games?
12 replies
Open
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