Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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nudge (284 D)
03 Mar 13 UTC
The Ancient Med - not year 1
What year is the Ancient Mediterranean set? Definitely not year 1AD, by then the Med was a Roman Lake. Carthage was destroyed in 146BC, Egypt fell to Rome in 47BC, Greece had been Roman for centuries. Only Persia can claim some independence on that map.
5 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Mar 13 UTC
(+3)
HAPPY TEXAS INDEPENDENCE DAY
177 years of independence
22 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
02 Aug 12 UTC
And now for a truly original thread topic!
Last Person to Post Wins!!!!!

And we can play some Ankara Crescent while we are at it.
2400 replies
Open
`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` (1922 D)
01 Jun 10 UTC
ADVERTISE YOUR LIVE GAMES HERE
Utilize this thread by posting new live games here and only here.
49645 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
27 Feb 13 UTC
(+2)
It's my webDip Birthday!
I'm 5 years old and about to play my 100th game! I would like to invite friends, new and old, to play. To be eligible, I'd ask you make a donation to the site (of any amount). WTA 36 Hours non-anon. Express your interest below. And, of course, thanks to Kestas, the mods, and the peanut gallery for making this the best site on the Internet.
46 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
07 Nov 12 UTC
17 games, 17 players
Who's in? 17 world gunboats, one game as each nation, 50 hour phases, WTA, anon, ready-up preferred (but no means required), only prearranged pauses (example, if someone insists on a winter break pause, we will ask the mods to unpause at an agreed time if we don't unpause ourselves by then), 5 D bets for a total of 85 D buy-in. Who's in?
442 replies
Open
cteno4 (100 D)
24 Feb 13 UTC
Balancing the map
Has anyone tried seeing what would happen if Albania was made into a supply center and Serbia was turned into an ordinary neutral? I would expect stronger wars between A/I and between R/T. Thoughts, please.
15 replies
Open
DJEcc24 (246 D)
17 Jan 12 UTC
Webdiplomacy World Cup
Some of you may remember me. its been a while but i got an email saying i should put together another webdiplomacy world cup. This forum is to see if there is indeed any interest in another one happening. Keep in mind i have not been on here in a while and honestly forget how i organized this before. Ghost, could you send me the information on the rules and etc?
1914 replies
Open
Legilimens (110 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
Unpause help
We paused a game (http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=111554), and now it will not unpause, despite if anybody pushes the unpause button.

Thoughts?
4 replies
Open
yebellz (729 D(G))
10 Dec 12 UTC
The CD Takeover Challenge
Just an informal challenge
See more inside...
271 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
One Post, Two Post, I Post, You Post (Happy Birthday Dr. Seuss!)
Today's the day! March 2nd, Hooray! Doctor Seuss was born in Springfield, USA
(Not the Springfield of Simpson, Homer Jay--Same name as some OTHER poet...anyway)--
He gave us a Grinch, Green Eggs, and some Cat--Keep up this rhyming tribute and tip your Hat! :D
6 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
28 Feb 13 UTC
(+1)
Strudy: Feminism Killing Women
http://www.clickondetroit.com/lifestyle/health/Study-Modern-women-heavier-due-to-lack-of-housework/-/2300442/19125728/-/9i98ar/-/index.html
74 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
28 Feb 13 UTC
Quotes
What are some of the best quotes in literature that you've read? Create your own criteria and post away...
43 replies
Open
nudge (284 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
Declaration of Singularity
I, user nudge, declare that I have never played this game with any other account, user name or identity other than that in my user profile, and I condemn all who have done so as cheats and liars.

I invite all here to make the same declaration.
40 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Mar 13 UTC
Draws
Sifting through 10 pages of open positions, I am noticing that it's increasingly uncommon that people actually draw for a CD. In a few games, people have pushed for it, and others have seemed to have no understanding as to why they'd draw for a CD. Did this etiquette just disappear like magic? Pre-1903 CDs should *always* constitute a draw and post-1903 CDs should constitute a draw if they result in a loss of a line that would otherwise be present. When did this stop?
18 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
01 Mar 13 UTC
Dennis Rodman the Great Statesman
Is anyone else loving this Rodman to North Korea thing? Obviously its a publicity stunt, but something in me thinks perhaps Dennis Rodman is the man to bring peace across to 38th Parallel
3 replies
Open
y77 (241 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
serious LIVE-game (1h + READY button)
*** 1h/turn, but 'ready' when finished. Pause possible, players agree when to continue. Bet 25, winner-takes-all, anonymous.
*** Only serious players please - no missed moves and resigns!
*** gameID=111543
4 replies
Open
erist (228 D(B))
05 Feb 13 UTC
Semi-Anon Classic Game with a twist
Semi-Anon WTA classic game, 24hphases, 30-50 buyin?
81 replies
Open
fortknox (2059 D)
27 Feb 13 UTC
(+12)
Allan B Calhamer (1931-2013)
I just got an email today from Edi Birsan. Allan Calhamer, creator of the board game diplomacy, has passed away. His daughter said her mother "would welcome any memories/stories about Allan or thoughts on what Diplomacy has meant to you."
So please put in thoughts and memories about diplomacy and I'll collect them and send them to her.
34 replies
Open
y77 (241 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
NEW GAME: 1h live (with use of 'ready'-button)
rules: 1h/turn, but everyone uses 'ready' when finished. Pause possible, players agree when to continue. Bet 25, winner-takes-all, anonymous.
Only serious players please - no missed moves and resigns!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=111535
3 replies
Open
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Feb 13 UTC
Zombie Apocalypse is almost here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueBZuZAoglE
The fact that our elected officials are talking about ways to stop the outbreak is proof that we should be concerned. So stock pile food ammo and guns, cause your going to need them in the coming months.
If anyone has advice for surviving the Apocalypse, feel free to post below.
196 replies
Open
Mujus (1495 D(B))
20 Aug 12 UTC
Daily Bible Reading
Wherein the ancient tale of sin and evil, repentance and forgiveness, and an eternal relationship with the living God of the universe is presented.
Page 14 of 18
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Retribution (0 DX)
20 Dec 12 UTC
God bless
Mujus (1495 D(B))
21 Dec 12 UTC
Thanks, Retribution! You might also want to check out blueletterbible.org for some great study helps. God bless and enjoy your Christmas.
Retribution (0 DX)
21 Dec 12 UTC
I will, thanks! Enjoy your Christmas as well.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
21 Dec 12 UTC
Mark Chapter 4 is the Bible reading for December 21, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)

Parable of the Farmer Scattering Seed

4:1 Once again Jesus began teaching by the lakeshore. A very large crowd soon gathered around him, so he got into a boat. Then he sat in the boat while all the people remained on the shore. 2 He taught them by telling many stories in the form of parables, such as this one:

3 “Listen! A farmer went out to plant some seed. 4 As he scattered it across his field, some of the seed fell on a footpath, and the birds came and ate it. 5 Other seed fell on shallow soil with underlying rock. The seed sprouted quickly because the soil was shallow. 6 But the plant soon wilted under the hot sun, and since it didn’t have deep roots, it died. 7 Other seed fell among thorns that grew up and choked out the tender plants so they produced no grain. 8 Still other seeds fell on fertile soil, and they sprouted, grew, and produced a crop that was thirty, sixty, and even a hundred times as much as had been planted!” 9 Then he said, “Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.”

10 Later, when Jesus was alone with the twelve disciples and with the others who were gathered around, they asked him what the parables meant.

11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secret[a] of the Kingdom of God. But I use parables for everything I say to outsiders, 12 so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled:

‘When they see what I do,
they will learn nothing.
When they hear what I say,
they will not understand.
Otherwise, they will turn to me
and be forgiven.’[b]”
13 Then Jesus said to them, “If you can’t understand the meaning of this parable, how will you understand all the other parables? 14 The farmer plants seed by taking God’s word to others. 15 The seed that fell on the footpath represents those who hear the message, only to have Satan come at once and take it away. 16 The seed on the rocky soil represents those who hear the message and immediately receive it with joy. 17 But since they don’t have deep roots, they don’t last long. They fall away as soon as they have problems or are persecuted for believing God’s word. 18 The seed that fell among the thorns represents others who hear God’s word, 19 but all too quickly the message is crowded out by the worries of this life, the lure of wealth, and the desire for other things, so no fruit is produced. 20 And the seed that fell on good soil represents those who hear and accept God’s word and produce a harvest of thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times as much as had been planted!”

Parable of the Lamp

21 Then Jesus asked them, “Would anyone light a lamp and then put it under a basket or under a bed? Of course not! A lamp is placed on a stand, where its light will shine. 22 For everything that is hidden will eventually be brought into the open, and every secret will be brought to light. 23 Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.”

24 Then he added, “Pay close attention to what you hear. The closer you listen, the more understanding you will be given[c]—and you will receive even more. 25 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them.”

Parable of the Growing Seed

26 Jesus also said, “The Kingdom of God is like a farmer who scatters seed on the ground. 27 Night and day, while he’s asleep or awake, the seed sprouts and grows, but he does not understand how it happens. 28 The earth produces the crops on its own. First a leaf blade pushes through, then the heads of wheat are formed, and finally the grain ripens. 29 And as soon as the grain is ready, the farmer comes and harvests it with a sickle, for the harvest time has come.”

Parable of the Mustard Seed

30 Jesus said, “How can I describe the Kingdom of God? What story should I use to illustrate it? 31 It is like a mustard seed planted in the ground. It is the smallest of all seeds, 32 but it becomes the largest of all garden plants; it grows long branches, and birds can make nests in its shade.”

33 Jesus used many similar stories and illustrations to teach the people as much as they could understand. 34 In fact, in his public ministry he never taught without using parables; but afterward, when he was alone with his disciples, he explained everything to them.

Jesus Calms the Storm

35 As evening came, Jesus said to his disciples, “Let’s cross to the other side of the lake.” 36 So they took Jesus in the boat and started out, leaving the crowds behind (although other boats followed). 37 But soon a fierce storm came up. High waves were breaking into the boat, and it began to fill with water.

38 Jesus was sleeping at the back of the boat with his head on a cushion. The disciples woke him up, shouting, “Teacher, don’t you care that we’re going to drown?”

39 When Jesus woke up, he rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Silence! Be still!” Suddenly the wind stopped, and there was a great calm. 40 Then he asked them, “Why are you afraid? Do you still have no faith?”

41 The disciples were absolutely terrified. “Who is this man?” they asked each other. “Even the wind and waves obey him!”

Footnotes:
a. Mark 4:11 Greek mystery.
b. Mark 4:12 Isa 6:9-10 (Greek version).
c. Mark 4:24 Or The measure you give will be the measure you get back.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%204&version=NLT
Timur (673 D(B))
22 Dec 12 UTC
Put the mustard seed in the bong. Merry whatever.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
22 Dec 12 UTC
Mark Chapter 5 is the Bible reading for Sat. Dec. 22, 2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)
Jesus Heals a Demon-Possessed Man

5:1 So they arrived at the other side of the lake, in the region of the Gerasenes.[a] 2 When Jesus climbed out of the boat, a man possessed by an evil[b] spirit came out from a cemetery to meet him. 3 This man lived among the burial caves and could no longer be restrained, even with a chain. 4 Whenever he was put into chains and shackles—as he often was—he snapped the chains from his wrists and smashed the shackles. No one was strong enough to subdue him. 5 Day and night he wandered among the burial caves and in the hills, howling and cutting himself with sharp stones.

6 When Jesus was still some distance away, the man saw him, ran to meet him, and bowed low before him. 7 With a shriek, he screamed, “Why are you interfering with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In the name of God, I beg you, don’t torture me!” 8 For Jesus had already said to the spirit, “Come out of the man, you evil spirit.”

9 Then Jesus demanded, “What is your name?”

And he replied, “My name is Legion, because there are many of us inside this man.” 10 Then the evil spirits begged him again and again not to send them to some distant place.

11 There happened to be a large herd of pigs feeding on the hillside nearby. 12 “Send us into those pigs,” the spirits begged. “Let us enter them.”

13 So Jesus gave them permission. The evil spirits came out of the man and entered the pigs, and the entire herd of about 2,000 pigs plunged down the steep hillside into the lake and drowned in the water.

14 The herdsmen fled to the nearby town and the surrounding countryside, spreading the news as they ran. People rushed out to see what had happened. 15 A crowd soon gathered around Jesus, and they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons. He was sitting there fully clothed and perfectly sane, and they were all afraid. 16 Then those who had seen what happened told the others about the demon-possessed man and the pigs. 17 And the crowd began pleading with Jesus to go away and leave them alone.

18 As Jesus was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon possessed begged to go with him. 19 But Jesus said, “No, go home to your family, and tell them everything the Lord has done for you and how merciful he has been.” 20 So the man started off to visit the Ten Towns[c] of that region and began to proclaim the great things Jesus had done for him; and everyone was amazed at what he told them.

Jesus Heals in Response to Faith

21 Jesus got into the boat again and went back to the other side of the lake, where a large crowd gathered around him on the shore. 22 Then a leader of the local synagogue, whose name was Jairus, arrived. When he saw Jesus, he fell at his feet, 23 pleading fervently with him. “My little daughter is dying,” he said. “Please come and lay your hands on her; heal her so she can live.”

24 Jesus went with him, and all the people followed, crowding around him. 25 A woman in the crowd had suffered for twelve years with constant bleeding. 26 She had suffered a great deal from many doctors, and over the years she had spent everything she had to pay them, but she had gotten no better. In fact, she had gotten worse. 27 She had heard about Jesus, so she came up behind him through the crowd and touched his robe. 28 For she thought to herself, “If I can just touch his robe, I will be healed.” 29 Immediately the bleeding stopped, and she could feel in her body that she had been healed of her terrible condition.

30 Jesus realized at once that healing power had gone out from him, so he turned around in the crowd and asked, “Who touched my robe?”

31 His disciples said to him, “Look at this crowd pressing around you. How can you ask, ‘Who touched me?’”

32 But he kept on looking around to see who had done it. 33 Then the frightened woman, trembling at the realization of what had happened to her, came and fell to her knees in front of him and told him what she had done. 34 And he said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace. Your suffering is over.”

35 While he was still speaking to her, messengers arrived from the home of Jairus, the leader of the synagogue. They told him, “Your daughter is dead. There’s no use troubling the Teacher now.”

36 But Jesus overheard[d] them and said to Jairus, “Don’t be afraid. Just have faith.”

37 Then Jesus stopped the crowd and wouldn’t let anyone go with him except Peter, James, and John (the brother of James). 38 When they came to the home of the synagogue leader, Jesus saw much commotion and weeping and wailing. 39 He went inside and asked, “Why all this commotion and weeping? The child isn’t dead; she’s only asleep.”

40 The crowd laughed at him. But he made them all leave, and he took the girl’s father and mother and his three disciples into the room where the girl was lying. 41 Holding her hand, he said to her, “Talitha koum,” which means “Little girl, get up!” 42 And the girl, who was twelve years old, immediately stood up and walked around! They were overwhelmed and totally amazed. 43 Jesus gave them strict orders not to tell anyone what had happened, and then he told them to give her something to eat.

Footnotes:
a. Mark 5:1 Other manuscripts read Gadarenes; still others read Gergesenes. See Matt 8:28; Luke 8:26.
b. Mark 5:2 Greek unclean; also in 5:8, 13.
c. Mark 5:20 Greek Decapolis.
d. Mark 5:36 Or ignored.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%205&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
23 Dec 12 UTC
Mark 6 is the Bible reading for 12/23/2012.
New Living Translation (NLT)

Jesus Rejected at Nazareth

6:1 Jesus left that part of the country and returned with his disciples to Nazareth, his hometown. 2 The next Sabbath he began teaching in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed. They asked, “Where did he get all this wisdom and the power to perform such miracles?” 3 Then they scoffed, “He’s just a carpenter, the son of Mary[a] and the brother of James, Joseph,[b] Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us.” They were deeply offended and refused to believe in him.

4 Then Jesus told them, “A prophet is honored everywhere except in his own hometown and among his relatives and his own family.” 5 And because of their unbelief, he couldn’t do any miracles among them except to place his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 And he was amazed at their unbelief.

Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Disciples

Then Jesus went from village to village, teaching the people. 7 And he called his twelve disciples together and began sending them out two by two, giving them authority to cast out evil[c] spirits. 8 He told them to take nothing for their journey except a walking stick—no food, no traveler’s bag, no money.[d] 9 He allowed them to wear sandals but not to take a change of clothes.

10 “Wherever you go,” he said, “stay in the same house until you leave town. 11 But if any place refuses to welcome you or listen to you, shake its dust from your feet as you leave to show that you have abandoned those people to their fate.”

12 So the disciples went out, telling everyone they met to repent of their sins and turn to God. 13 And they cast out many demons and healed many sick people, anointing them with olive oil.

The Death of John the Baptist

14 Herod Antipas, the king, soon heard about Jesus, because everyone was talking about him. Some were saying,[e] “This must be John the Baptist raised from the dead. That is why he can do such miracles.” 15 Others said, “He’s the prophet Elijah.” Still others said, “He’s a prophet like the other great prophets of the past.”

16 When Herod heard about Jesus, he said, “John, the man I beheaded, has come back from the dead.”

17 For Herod had sent soldiers to arrest and imprison John as a favor to Herodias. She had been his brother Philip’s wife, but Herod had married her. 18 John had been telling Herod, “It is against God’s law for you to marry your brother’s wife.” 19 So Herodias bore a grudge against John and wanted to kill him. But without Herod’s approval she was powerless, 20 for Herod respected John; and knowing that he was a good and holy man, he protected him. Herod was greatly disturbed whenever he talked with John, but even so, he liked to listen to him.

21 Herodias’s chance finally came on Herod’s birthday. He gave a party for his high government officials, army officers, and the leading citizens of Galilee. 22 Then his daughter, also named Herodias,[f] came in and performed a dance that greatly pleased Herod and his guests. “Ask me for anything you like,” the king said to the girl, “and I will give it to you.” 23 He even vowed, “I will give you whatever you ask, up to half my kingdom!”

24 She went out and asked her mother, “What should I ask for?”

Her mother told her, “Ask for the head of John the Baptist!”

25 So the girl hurried back to the king and told him, “I want the head of John the Baptist, right now, on a tray!”

26 Then the king deeply regretted what he had said; but because of the vows he had made in front of his guests, he couldn’t refuse her. 27 So he immediately sent an executioner to the prison to cut off John’s head and bring it to him. The soldier beheaded John in the prison, 28 brought his head on a tray, and gave it to the girl, who took it to her mother. 29 When John’s disciples heard what had happened, they came to get his body and buried it in a tomb.

Jesus Feeds Five Thousand

30 The apostles returned to Jesus from their ministry tour and told him all they had done and taught. 31 Then Jesus said, “Let’s go off by ourselves to a quiet place and rest awhile.” He said this because there were so many people coming and going that Jesus and his apostles didn’t even have time to eat.

32 So they left by boat for a quiet place, where they could be alone. 33 But many people recognized them and saw them leaving, and people from many towns ran ahead along the shore and got there ahead of them. 34 Jesus saw the huge crowd as he stepped from the boat, and he had compassion on them because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things.

35 Late in the afternoon his disciples came to him and said, “This is a remote place, and it’s already getting late. 36 Send the crowds away so they can go to the nearby farms and villages and buy something to eat.”

37 But Jesus said, “You feed them.”

“With what?” they asked. “We’d have to work for months to earn enough money[g] to buy food for all these people!”

38 “How much bread do you have?” he asked. “Go and find out.”

They came back and reported, “We have five loaves of bread and two fish.”

39 Then Jesus told the disciples to have the people sit down in groups on the green grass. 40 So they sat down in groups of fifty or a hundred.

41 Jesus took the five loaves and two fish, looked up toward heaven, and blessed them. Then, breaking the loaves into pieces, he kept giving the bread to the disciples so they could distribute it to the people. He also divided the fish for everyone to share. 42 They all ate as much as they wanted, 43 and afterward, the disciples picked up twelve baskets of leftover bread and fish. 44 A total of 5,000 men and their families were fed from those loaves!

Jesus Walks on Water

45 Immediately after this, Jesus insisted that his disciples get back into the boat and head across the lake to Bethsaida, while he sent the people home. 46 After telling everyone good-bye, he went up into the hills by himself to pray.

47 Late that night, the disciples were in their boat in the middle of the lake, and Jesus was alone on land. 48 He saw that they were in serious trouble, rowing hard and struggling against the wind and waves. About three o’clock in the morning[h] Jesus came toward them, walking on the water. He intended to go past them, 49 but when they saw him walking on the water, they cried out in terror, thinking he was a ghost. 50 They were all terrified when they saw him.

But Jesus spoke to them at once. “Don’t be afraid,” he said. “Take courage! I am here![i]” 51 Then he climbed into the boat, and the wind stopped. They were totally amazed, 52 for they still didn’t understand the significance of the miracle of the loaves. Their hearts were too hard to take it in.

53 After they had crossed the lake, they landed at Gennesaret. They brought the boat to shore 54 and climbed out. The people recognized Jesus at once, 55 and they ran throughout the whole area, carrying sick people on mats to wherever they heard he was. 56 Wherever he went—in villages, cities, or the countryside—they brought the sick out to the marketplaces. They begged him to let the sick touch at least the fringe of his robe, and all who touched him were healed.

Footnotes:
a .Mark 6:3 Some manuscripts read He’s just the son of the carpenter and of Mary.
b. Mark 6:3 Most manuscripts read Joses; see Matt 13:55.
c. Mark 6:7 Greek unclean.
d. Mark 6:8 Greek no copper coins in their money belts.
e. Mark 6:14 Some manuscripts read He was saying.
f. Mark 6:22 Some manuscripts read the daughter of Herodias herself.
g. Mark 6:37 Greek It would take 200 denarii. A denarius was equivalent to a laborer’s full day’s wage.
h. Mark 6:48 Greek About the fourth watch of the night.
i. Mark 6:50 Or The ‘I Am’ is here; Greek reads I am. See Exod 3:14.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%206&version=NLT
Mujus (1495 D(B))
24 Dec 12 UTC
Today's out-of-sequence Bible reading is Luke Chapter 2.
New Living Translation (NLT)
The Birth of Jesus

2:1 At that time the Roman emperor, Augustus, decreed that a census should be taken throughout the Roman Empire. 2 (This was the first census taken when Quirinius was governor of Syria.) 3 All returned to their own ancestral towns to register for this census. 4 And because Joseph was a descendant of King David, he had to go to Bethlehem in Judea, David’s ancient home. He traveled there from the village of Nazareth in Galilee. 5 He took with him Mary, his fiancée, who was now obviously pregnant.

6 And while they were there, the time came for her baby to be born. 7 She gave birth to her first child, a son. She wrapped him snugly in strips of cloth and laid him in a manger, because there was no lodging available for them.

The Shepherds and Angels

8 That night there were shepherds staying in the fields nearby, guarding their flocks of sheep. 9 Suddenly, an angel of the Lord appeared among them, and the radiance of the Lord’s glory surrounded them. They were terrified, 10 but the angel reassured them. “Don’t be afraid!” he said. “I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people. 11 The Savior—yes, the Messiah, the Lord—has been born today in Bethlehem, the city of David! 12 And you will recognize him by this sign: You will find a baby wrapped snugly in strips of cloth, lying in a manger.”

13 Suddenly, the angel was joined by a vast host of others—the armies of heaven—praising God and saying,

14 “Glory to God in highest heaven,
and peace on earth to those with whom God is pleased.”
15 When the angels had returned to heaven, the shepherds said to each other, “Let’s go to Bethlehem! Let’s see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”

16 They hurried to the village and found Mary and Joseph. And there was the baby, lying in the manger. 17 After seeing him, the shepherds told everyone what had happened and what the angel had said to them about this child. 18 All who heard the shepherds’ story were astonished, 19 but Mary kept all these things in her heart and thought about them often. 20 The shepherds went back to their flocks, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen. It was just as the angel had told them.

Jesus Is Presented in the Temple

21 Eight days later, when the baby was circumcised, he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel even before he was conceived.

22 Then it was time for their purification offering, as required by the law of Moses after the birth of a child; so his parents took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord. 23 The law of the Lord says, “If a woman’s first child is a boy, he must be dedicated to the Lord.”[a] 24 So they offered the sacrifice required in the law of the Lord—“either a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.”[b]

The Prophecy of Simeon

25 At that time there was a man in Jerusalem named Simeon. He was righteous and devout and was eagerly waiting for the Messiah to come and rescue Israel. The Holy Spirit was upon him 26 and had revealed to him that he would not die until he had seen the Lord’s Messiah. 27 That day the Spirit led him to the Temple. So when Mary and Joseph came to present the baby Jesus to the Lord as the law required, 28 Simeon was there. He took the child in his arms and praised God, saying,

29 “Sovereign Lord, now let your servant die in peace,
as you have promised.
30 I have seen your salvation,
31 which you have prepared for all people.
32 He is a light to reveal God to the nations,
and he is the glory of your people Israel!”
33 Jesus’ parents were amazed at what was being said about him. 34 Then Simeon blessed them, and he said to Mary, the baby’s mother, “This child is destined to cause many in Israel to fall, but he will be a joy to many others. He has been sent as a sign from God, but many will oppose him. 35 As a result, the deepest thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your very soul.”

The Prophecy of Anna

36 Anna, a prophet, was also there in the Temple. She was the daughter of Phanuel from the tribe of Asher, and she was very old. Her husband died when they had been married only seven years. 37 Then she lived as a widow to the age of eighty-four.[c] She never left the Temple but stayed there day and night, worshiping God with fasting and prayer. 38 She came along just as Simeon was talking with Mary and Joseph, and she began praising God. She talked about the child to everyone who had been waiting expectantly for God to rescue Jerusalem.

39 When Jesus’ parents had fulfilled all the requirements of the law of the Lord, they returned home to Nazareth in Galilee. 40 There the child grew up healthy and strong. He was filled with wisdom, and God’s favor was on him.

Jesus Speaks with the Teachers

41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Passover festival. 42 When Jesus was twelve years old, they attended the festival as usual. 43 After the celebration was over, they started home to Nazareth, but Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. His parents didn’t miss him at first, 44 because they assumed he was among the other travelers. But when he didn’t show up that evening, they started looking for him among their relatives and friends.

45 When they couldn’t find him, they went back to Jerusalem to search for him there. 46 Three days later they finally discovered him in the Temple, sitting among the religious teachers, listening to them and asking questions. 47 All who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers.

48 His parents didn’t know what to think. “Son,” his mother said to him, “why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been frantic, searching for you everywhere.”

49 “But why did you need to search?” he asked. “Didn’t you know that I must be in my Father’s house?”[d] 50 But they didn’t understand what he meant.

51 Then he returned to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. And his mother stored all these things in her heart.

52 Jesus grew in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and all the people.

Footnotes:
a. Luke 2:23 Exod 13:2.
b. Luke 2:24 Lev 12:8.
c. Luke 2:37 Or She had been a widow for eighty-four years.
d. Luke 2:49 Or “Didn’t you realize that I should be involved with my Father’s affairs?”

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%202&version=NLT
Timur (673 D(B))
24 Dec 12 UTC
Wow! That's so cool! Got another? Can't wait.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
25 Dec 12 UTC
The Bible reading for Christmas Day 2012 is from Isaiah 9.
New Living Translation (NLT)
Hope in the Messiah

9:1 [a]Nevertheless, that time of darkness and despair will not go on forever. The land of Zebulun and Naphtali will be humbled, but there will be a time in the future when Galilee of the Gentiles, which lies along the road that runs between the Jordan and the sea, will be filled with glory.

2 [b] The people who walk in darkness
will see a great light.
For those who live in a land of deep darkness,[c]
a light will shine.
3 You will enlarge the nation of Israel,
and its people will rejoice.
They will rejoice before you
as people rejoice at the harvest
and like warriors dividing the plunder.
4 For you will break the yoke of their slavery
and lift the heavy burden from their shoulders.
You will break the oppressor’s rod,
just as you did when you destroyed the army of Midian.
5 The boots of the warrior
and the uniforms bloodstained by war
will all be burned.
They will be fuel for the fire.

6 For a child is born to us,
a son is given to us.
The government will rest on his shoulders.
And he will be called:
Wonderful Counselor,[d] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 His government and its peace
will never end.
He will rule with fairness and justice from the throne of his ancestor David
for all eternity.
The passionate commitment of the Lord of Heaven’s Armies
will make this happen!

Footnotes:
a .Isaiah 9:1 Verse 9:1 is numbered 8:23 in Hebrew text.
b .Isaiah 9:2 Verses 9:2-21 are numbered 9:1-20 in Hebrew text.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%209&version=NLT
Timur (673 D(B))
25 Dec 12 UTC
This is the sort of rhetoric that can only put people against you. Maybe that's your intention? Play the the joker - underdog/overdog card. See where it gets you.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
26 Dec 12 UTC
c. Isaiah 9:2 Greek version reads a land where death casts its shadow. Compare Matt 4:16.
d. Isaiah 9:6 Or Wonderful, Counselor.
Timur (673 D(B))
26 Dec 12 UTC
Truly uplifting!
Mujus (1495 D(B))
26 Dec 12 UTC
Returning to the Book of Mark--Today's Bible reading is Mark Chapter 7.

New Living Translation (NLT)

Jesus Teaches about Inner Purity

7:1 One day some Pharisees and teachers of religious law arrived from Jerusalem to see Jesus. 2 They noticed that some of his disciples failed to follow the Jewish ritual of hand washing before eating. 3 (The Jews, especially the Pharisees, do not eat until they have poured water over their cupped hands,[a] as required by their ancient traditions. 4 Similarly, they don’t eat anything from the market until they immerse their hands[b] in water. This is but one of many traditions they have clung to—such as their ceremonial washing of cups, pitchers, and kettles.[c])

5 So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, “Why don’t your disciples follow our age-old tradition? They eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony.”

6 Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,


‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’[d]

8 For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”

9 Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. 10 For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’[e] and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’[f] 11 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’[g] 12 In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. 13 And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”

14 Then Jesus called to the crowd to come and hear. “All of you listen,” he said, “and try to understand. 15 It’s not what goes into your body that defiles you; you are defiled by what comes from your heart.[h]”

17 Then Jesus went into a house to get away from the crowd, and his disciples asked him what he meant by the parable he had just used. 18 “Don’t you understand either?” he asked. “Can’t you see that the food you put into your body cannot defile you? 19 Food doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.” (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes.)

20 And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. 21 For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. 23 All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.”

The Faith of a Gentile Woman

24 Then Jesus left Galilee and went north to the region of Tyre.[i] He didn’t want anyone to know which house he was staying in, but he couldn’t keep it a secret. 25 Right away a woman who had heard about him came and fell at his feet. Her little girl was possessed by an evil[j] spirit, 26 and she begged him to cast out the demon from her daughter.

Since she was a Gentile, born in Syrian Phoenicia, 27 Jesus told her, “First I should feed the children—my own family, the Jews.[k] It isn’t right to take food from the children and throw it to the dogs.”

28 She replied, “That’s true, Lord, but even the dogs under the table are allowed to eat the scraps from the children’s plates.”

29 “Good answer!” he said. “Now go home, for the demon has left your daughter.” 30 And when she arrived home, she found her little girl lying quietly in bed, and the demon was gone.

Jesus Heals a Deaf Man

31 Jesus left Tyre and went up to Sidon before going back to the Sea of Galilee and the region of the Ten Towns.[l] 32 A deaf man with a speech impediment was brought to him, and the people begged Jesus to lay his hands on the man to heal him.

33 Jesus led him away from the crowd so they could be alone. He put his fingers into the man’s ears. Then, spitting on his own fingers, he touched the man’s tongue. 34 Looking up to heaven, he sighed and said, “Ephphatha,” which means, “Be opened!” 35 Instantly the man could hear perfectly, and his tongue was freed so he could speak plainly!

36 Jesus told the crowd not to tell anyone, but the more he told them not to, the more they spread the news. 37 They were completely amazed and said again and again, “Everything he does is wonderful. He even makes the deaf to hear and gives speech to those who cannot speak.”

Footnotes:
a. Mark 7:3 Greek have washed with the fist.
b. Mark 7:4 Some manuscripts read sprinkle themselves.
c. Mark 7:4 Some manuscripts add and dining couches.
d. Mark 7:7 Isa 29:13 (Greek version).
e. Mark 7:10 Exod 20:12; Deut 5:16.
f. Mark 7:10 Exod 21:17 (Greek version); Lev 20:9 (Greek version).
g. Mark 7:11 Greek ‘What I would have given to you is Corban’ (that is, a gift).
h. Mark 7:15 Some manuscripts add verse 16, Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand. Compare 4:9, 23.
i. Mark 7:24 Some manuscripts add and Sidon.
j. Mark 7:25 Greek unclean.
k. Mark 7:27 Greek Let the children eat first.
l. Mark 7:31 Greek Decapolis.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%207&version=NLT
Timur (673 D(B))
26 Dec 12 UTC
"they teach man-made ideas as commands from God."
Cool thinking, compadre!
Christ you pick out all the anti-semitic parts of the bible like kids pick out M&Ms from trail mix.

Is there something about the disciples building up straw men about Jews and Jewish traditions that gets you off. Can you find a lesson in anything besides a passage that generalizes existing Jewish practices and people? Is your entire understanding of Christianity based on a false reading of Jewish practices?
The funny part about it is I look through this thread once in a blue moon, and every single time I do its some damned passage about Jesus lecturing Jews about their impiety. I know for a fact that isn't the whole of the christian bible, this is definitely an editor's decision.
FlemGem (1297 D)
27 Dec 12 UTC
SC - perhaps if you checked in more frequently you'd notice that Mujus almost always presents whole books of the Bible chapter by chapter (with the occasional exception like his recent special selections for Christmas). So no, it's not an editor's decision. Perhaps you could consider an apology to Mujus? Anti-semitism is a pretty serious charge, and it was made falsely.....

But this does bring up a very interesting discussion point. I understand how this chapter could be (and probably has been) taken as anti-Jewish if you wanted to twist things, but what exactly is anti-semitic about a story about a wandering Jewish teacher (Jesus) using the words of a Jewish prophet (Isaiah) to call Jews (and anyone else who is listening) to a more pure, heartfelt worship of God?
Timur (673 D(B))
27 Dec 12 UTC
Well put.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
27 Dec 12 UTC
Santa, you write "Is your entire understanding of Christianity based on a false reading of Jewish practices?" In reply let me ask you this--Is your entire understanding of Judaism based on secondary and tertiary interpretations of the actual Hebrew scriptures?
Mujus (1495 D(B))
27 Dec 12 UTC
Mark 8 is the Bible reading for December 27, 2012.

New Living Translation (NLT)


Jesus Feeds Four Thousand

8:1 About this time another large crowd had gathered, and the people ran out of food again. Jesus called his disciples and told them, 2 “I feel sorry for these people. They have been here with me for three days, and they have nothing left to eat. 3 If I send them home hungry, they will faint along the way. For some of them have come a long distance.”

4 His disciples replied, “How are we supposed to find enough food to feed them out here in the wilderness?”

5 Jesus asked, “How much bread do you have?”

“Seven loaves,” they replied.

6 So Jesus told all the people to sit down on the ground. Then he took the seven loaves, thanked God for them, and broke them into pieces. He gave them to his disciples, who distributed the bread to the crowd. 7 A few small fish were found, too, so Jesus also blessed these and told the disciples to distribute them.

8 They ate as much as they wanted. Afterward, the disciples picked up seven large baskets of leftover food. 9 There were about 4,000 people in the crowd that day, and Jesus sent them home after they had eaten. 10 Immediately after this, he got into a boat with his disciples and crossed over to the region of Dalmanutha.

Pharisees Demand a Miraculous Sign

11 When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had arrived, they came and started to argue with him. Testing him, they demanded that he show them a miraculous sign from heaven to prove his authority.

12 When he heard this, he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why do these people keep demanding a miraculous sign? I tell you the truth, I will not give this generation any such sign.” 13 So he got back into the boat and left them, and he crossed to the other side of the lake.

Yeast of the Pharisees and Herod

14 But the disciples had forgotten to bring any food. They had only one loaf of bread with them in the boat. 15 As they were crossing the lake, Jesus warned them, “Watch out! Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and of Herod.”

16 At this they began to argue with each other because they hadn’t brought any bread. 17 Jesus knew what they were saying, so he said, “Why are you arguing about having no bread? Don’t you know or understand even yet? Are your hearts too hard to take it in? 18 ‘You have eyes—can’t you see? You have ears—can’t you hear?’[a] Don’t you remember anything at all? 19 When I fed the 5,000 with five loaves of bread, how many baskets of leftovers did you pick up afterward?”

“Twelve,” they said.

20 “And when I fed the 4,000 with seven loaves, how many large baskets of leftovers did you pick up?”

“Seven,” they said.

21 “Don’t you understand yet?” he asked them.

Jesus Heals a Blind Man

22 When they arrived at Bethsaida, some people brought a blind man to Jesus, and they begged him to touch the man and heal him. 23 Jesus took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village. Then, spitting on the man’s eyes, he laid his hands on him and asked, “Can you see anything now?”

24 The man looked around. “Yes,” he said, “I see people, but I can’t see them very clearly. They look like trees walking around.”

25 Then Jesus placed his hands on the man’s eyes again, and his eyes were opened. His sight was completely restored, and he could see everything clearly. 26 Jesus sent him away, saying, “Don’t go back into the village on your way home.”

Peter’s Declaration about Jesus

27 Jesus and his disciples left Galilee and went up to the villages near Caesarea Philippi. As they were walking along, he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”

28 “Well,” they replied, “some say John the Baptist, some say Elijah, and others say you are one of the other prophets.”

29 Then he asked them, “But who do you say I am?”

Peter replied, “You are the Messiah.[b]”

30 But Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.

Jesus Predicts His Death

31 Then Jesus began to tell them that the Son of Man[c] must suffer many terrible things and be rejected by the elders, the leading priests, and the teachers of religious law. He would be killed, but three days later he would rise from the dead. 32 As he talked about this openly with his disciples, Peter took him aside and began to reprimand him for saying such things.[d]

33 Jesus turned around and looked at his disciples, then reprimanded Peter. “Get away from me, Satan!” he said. “You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.”

34 Then, calling the crowd to join his disciples, he said, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow me. 35 If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake and for the sake of the Good News, you will save it. 36 And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?[e] 37 Is anything worth more than your soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my message in these adulterous and sinful days, the Son of Man will be ashamed of that person when he returns in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”

Footnotes:
a. Mark 8:18 Jer 5:21.
b. Mark 8:29 Or the Christ. Messiah (a Hebrew term) and Christ (a Greek term) both mean “the anointed one.”
c. Mark 8:31 “Son of Man” is a title Jesus used for himself.
d. Mark 8:32 Or began to correct him.
e. Mark 8:36 Or your self? also in 8:37.
"In reply let me ask you this--Is your entire understanding of Judaism based on secondary and tertiary interpretations of the actual Hebrew scriptures? "

Is mine? Is yours?
listen to this guy, his version of the bible has gone through 5 different translations and he is asking me if my understanding is secondary and tertiary interpretations
"SC - perhaps if you checked in more frequently you'd notice that Mujus almost always presents whole books of the Bible chapter by chapter (with the occasional exception like his recent special selections for Christmas). So no, it's not an editor's decision. Perhaps you could consider an apology to Mujus? Anti-semitism is a pretty serious charge, and it was made falsely.."

And who picks the books? I also didn't call him an anti semite, I don't believe that he is. I believe that he does enjoy the view that christianity replaced an ancient, shallow and dying religion which he attempts to shove down people's throat at every turn. How many times has he been genuinely surprised when he has gotten the deeper meaning behind jewish observances he characterizes as obsolete or Jewish ideas he doesn't even partially understand.

About the passage being anti-semitic, how could you possibly not see it as so. You have a stock charecter arguing for jewish practices who automatically is assumed to be impious, and the practice itself (which is still followed by Jews) is declared a cover for an innate impiety. Jesus lectures him and he shrinks away.

how do you twist things that it is not anti-jewish flem?
FlemGem (1297 D)
27 Dec 12 UTC
"And who picks the books?" Umm, it's a daily Bible reading. And, umm, for Christians the gospels are kind of an important part of the Bible, so, umm, I would think we'd all expect them to show up every so often in the daily Bible reading thread.

Really, SC, I'm surprised by this. I would think that as a seriously religious person (at least I'm under the impression that you are a practicing Jew) you would appreciate a forum where scriptures are read and discussed in context instead of attacked piecemeal as they so often are in the threads of some of our non-practising-jewish friends. So c'mon, buddy, I think we have more in common here than not. I'm also a bit disappointed by the "shoving his views down people's throats" argument....seriously, posting an opinion on the internet is now "shoving your views down people's throats"?

So how are these passages not anti-semitic? Well, as far as I can tell, Jesus considered his work to be that of renewal and/or reformation from within the Jewish faith. Of course we can't see back in time into people's hearts and minds, but is it indeed possible that some of the people Jesus confronted had indeed replaced vital spirituality with empty religiosity? How is Jesus not squarely within the prophetic tradition (at least in this case)?
My experience in the Christian community and in my own spiritual life is that renewal is a constant necessity. While I might judge certain movements to be heretical (mormonism, for example) I don't consider renewal per se to be inherently anti-Christian. So I guess I don't see why Jesus' teachings are inherently anti-semitic or anti-Jewish.

But of course I'm not a Jew, so if you want to explain your viewpoint to me more fully I'd appreciate it. Is it that Jesus' teachings are to you as Joseph Smith's are to me? Or what?
Mujus (1495 D(B))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Santa, I mean no disrespect to Judaism or to Jews. My position is, as Flem mentioned, that Christianity *is* Jewish--a branch that diverged following Jesus' death, but still Jewish. The whole point of the Hebrew scriptures was to point the way to the Messiah, Yeshua (which means "God saves"). Salvation came to the Jews first, and many believed--and today there are many Hebrew believers in Yeshua the Messiah. Then the good news was shared with non-Jews all over the world, and many believed--and those two groups are joined in a common faith/trust/belief. Many Jewish groups who trust in Yeshua, or Jesus, use the Hebrew words "Yeshua" and "Messiah" rather than the Greek- and Latin-based words "Jesus" and "Christ," for cultural and historical reasons, but they put their trust in the same person.
I admit to not knowing as much about the Hebrew scriptures as I would like, but the message is very clear: God sent Yeshua (Jesus) to live among us, teach and do miracles so that people would believe in the God who sent him, and then finally to die and be raised again. This is what Gentile Christians and Messianic Jews believe. It is the same faith in the same God. But the second part of the message is also very clear, as you might expect from the God of the Hebrew scriptures--that those who reject the Messiah of Israel, Jesus or Yeshua, cannot come to the Father because they have not had their sins washed away.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Here's an offer, Santa: You pick the next book, either Hebrew scriptures (Torah, historical, wisdom, poetic, prophets) or New Testament, main canon only please, and and I'll post it. Please don't use this as an excuse to argue about the apocrypha or deutero-canonical or interpretive books though--that would just be a rabbit trail leading nowhere. As soon as the book of Mark is done, your choice will be next.
Timur (673 D(B))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Well said again!
Timur (673 D(B))
28 Dec 12 UTC
The book of Mark is never done . . . talk talk talk . . . think chickens.
Timur (673 D(B))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Why simply cut'n'paste chunks of the Bible. We have the book if we want to read it.

Page 14 of 18
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532 replies
Sbyvl36 (439 D)
02 Mar 13 UTC
There isn't enough money in the world....
There is $2 Trillion in American money of all world currencies in circulation combined. The U.S. National debt is $16 Trillion. So there is literally not enough money in the world to pay it back.
4 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
02 Mar 13 UTC
Need players for a live game at VDIP
http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=12900

Need some players
0 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
27 Feb 13 UTC
(+1)
Fractured Republican Party and the End of Compromise
Discussing the GOP's current state and its relation to the sequester
159 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Mar 13 UTC
Chief Justice Roberts Slanders the Commonwealth of Mass
Incompetent mistake or willful slander? Either way, it is unbecoming of a Chief Justice.

http://tinyurl.com/anzaerl
20 replies
Open
Colonel Saloh Cin (100 D)
28 Feb 13 UTC
Are you the one who will rule the world?
For the easy payment of 15 D, you can enjoy the chance to rule the
world with The World Wide Schlieffen Plan. ( http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=111246 ) . If you can take 10 minutes out of you day for possible world domination, than this deal is for you. In fact this deal is just to good. I'm gonna have to put a time limit
of 7 days for this. I would wait that long though. there's only 13 spaces
left.
3 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
01 Mar 13 UTC
Facts
So, ckroberts just pointed out that in a newspaper article on something US supreme court judge Roberts said about Massachusetts, whereas the debate could have possibly been resolved by providing data, they treated it as a "he-said he-said thing". I actually see that a lot.
5 replies
Open
RaymondNordahl (1132 D)
01 Mar 13 UTC
Parameter 'fromTerrID' set to invalid value 14 - error message
I got the error message above in the game "fast g" gameID=111432
What does it mean and why did it show?
(I won the game anyway, so it didn't really make an impact on gameplay...)
I can email a screenshot if neccesary
1 reply
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
01 Mar 13 UTC
Why do we fight?
A list to contribute towards:
8 replies
Open
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