i can't believe so many people are freaking out about this -- especially so vocally -- PPSC scoring was essentially a completely different game then actual canon Diplomacy, and encouraged players who were bad at (lower case) diplomacy and alliances to linger around on this site with an element of legitimacy. All the new scoring system does is motivate players to form legit alliances and scheme for legit and proper backstabs. move on everyone. kudos to the mod team.

Except that it doesn't - that's like saying that red wine is the better wine. 40% of wine drinkers disagree. Actually more than that. The game survived for years with the pluralism and this represents an activist staff getting involved in stuff that they're unqualified to manage.

None of the arguments supporting this gaffe address the issue.

I don't think you, @ishirkmywork, have the background to understand.

Please fix this and allow us to play our games. What aren't there enough cheaters for the staff to crack down on? They don't have enough to do.

well, red wine is the better wine. democracy, yo?

you are probably right though. about my miserable, pathetic, uninformed background. How could I possibly fathom the rules of this game, or have an legitimate experience playing it?

red wine is better +1

@ishrikmywork

I feel much the same. Really. 20% defeat rating. I'd say you ought to hang it up, Old Sport, and spare yourself any further indignity.

Al likes to talk about defeat rating :( lets talk about his abysmal win rating

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=137422#gamePanel

this was Al's last win....two were banned and all the others newbs March of 14


all bow to AL-----------------------------------------------------NOT

How can the website simultaneously be newbie-friendly and discourage people who are bad at diplomacy to hang around with any form of legitimacy, given the necessarily significant overlap?

@basvanopheusden--
The question is, do you get more good players by having PPSC, even though it's a worse mode from a rigorous competitive perspective, than you do by removing it? I'm reminded of studies suggesting that texting, that notorious bane of the English language, improves literacy overall, because after all, it's still writing experience. Or SSB Melee--sure, only a few of the stages and maybe half the characters (and none of the items, and a tiny subset of game modes) are useful for competition, but would the competitive scene have developed the way it did without all the arguably more "casual" parts of the game? What I'm saying is, demanding that the site have only the highest quality modes for experienced players is likely to actually reduce the pool of good players.

@ishirkmywork

I basically agree with what Lethologica is saying, although I don't have the patience to articulate it as well as he does.

There are unrated games for new players. That is how you learn the mechanics of the game. You can also learn strategy there. Now that PPSC is gone, newbies will not be taught how to play for the strong second from day one. Al is the king of the Draw. 55%!!%!%!^!

I disagree that PPSC is newbie friendly, since it encourages unbreakable alliances.

For example, many PPSC-first players have several negative games where they get smashed because their press is worse than the rest of the players, so they don't get picked as the alliance partner. In PPSC, the partnered alliance never has any incentive to separate. Players who get smashed all the time don't tend to stick with Diplomacy. In DSS/SoS, no alliance is unbreakable, and alliances often split for their own reasons. A poor player will more often randomly have "good" results (ie, games in which they don't die).

I agree that webdip's new player experience can be improved, though. As I said in another post, we have several ideas and plans there. And suggestions are welcome.

PPSC encourages players to play against their win condition. That's all that is necessary to justify its removal.

@bo_sox

Bo, can you stop interrupting the adults whilst we're talking? 27% defeated, kid. Worst score I've seen in a while.

Keep it civil, everyone. Someone disagreeing with your favourite way of playing Diplomacy isn't necessarily an idiot. And players with good records don't have better opinions than players with worse ones.

Al, you've got shit running down your chin again.

Cut it out, bo.

Al, why do you consider lowest defeat percentage to be a good thing, indeed, the most important thing?

Because he's a shithead

Wow, by attacking each other, you guys are making me feel bad about my stats :^/
55% Draw
8% Won
38% Defeat/survive

Yeah, but you played a capitol game last night, Old Sport. A veritable text book case.

ssorenn, I think you could have made a more convincing argument *after* Al explained his position.

He's not wrong though.

So, Al, why do you consider Defeat% to be most important?

thats a plug of credibility, if Bo_sox agrees with something i say....It must be right

Defeat percentage as a measure of quality doesn't really fit with PPSC and "second place winners".

i'm not super excited about chiming back in here @ Al Swearengen and @ Lethologica -- but feel the need to clarify -- i think there is a difference between someone who is new to diplomacy, to someone who is obsessed with points since they directly effect the in-site ranking system and cause players to feel extra special about themselves if they have a lot. The site should be newbie friendly of course -- unranked games are great, low buy-in games are great --

So, egg on my face--I misunderstood that the PPSC rules only differ from WTA when someone solos. Total fail on my part, and I no longer see a reason to retain PPSC. Thanks to Valis for the clarification.

Here's one data point on the change: I've seen many World games go by in the upcoming games lists, some using PPSC/SWS and some using WTA/DSS. I've joined a few, mostly PPSC, because I think it makes more sense for that variant, but I've played both.

Some of the time, a World game doesn't get 17 players. I've seldom seen one get less than 6. I created one this week with SoS scoring and it hit the start deadline without a single other player joining! There's one other World game due to start in 1 day, 9 hours with DSS scoring and it has 3 players so far. Have to wonder whether all the World variant players have been driven off by the changes? At the very least, it looks like SoS for World games is a flop.

(There are some gunboat games, but I'm not counting those. World gunboat is an online aberration, very much unlike actual Diplomacy, which involves talking to people. I've seldom looked at/for them in the past, so I can't usefully make comparisons.)