Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 1301 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
Smokey Gem (154 D)
02 Feb 16 UTC
vdiplomacy what is it ??
is that the same as webdip or can you do you need different accounts on both ??
11 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
28 Dec 15 UTC
(+8)
Beginner Game!
If you'd like to play a game with fellow new players, whether new to the game or just new to the site, please read below.
53 replies
Open
Slyguy270 (527 D)
01 Feb 16 UTC
Democracy4US
Quite simply, Democracy4US is an app built to fix politics in America.
20 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
02 Feb 16 UTC
Donald Trump threatens Iowans
In his speech last night Trump was cold and unforgiving to the Iowans. He threatened to buy a farm and move to Iowa.
2 replies
Open
MrcsAurelius (3051 D(B))
02 Feb 16 UTC
Hope someone knows!
Recent changes question.
1 reply
Open
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
02 Feb 16 UTC
Quality Live Game
I was considering starting a RP (Rulebook Press?) around 4pm EST (New York City Time). I was thinking 10 minute phases (assuming that the auto ready on retreat and builds will save us a ton of time) I would prefer if you have at least 10 games to your name and the bet will be 50 D. add your name in list format below. I will send out the Passwords at 3pm EST
3 replies
Open
lauridsena (910 D)
02 Feb 16 UTC
Checking adjacent territories
Is there any way to check ahead of time, in any manner, if two territories are adjacent? There are some territories that seem adjacent, but I don't know if fleets can travel between them. I just don't know how to see if they are or not and don't want to take the chance they aren't and try to move somewhere only to find out the next move is impossible
4 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
13 Dec 15 UTC
Playtesting my boardgame online
Hello everyone,
version 1 of my boardgame is finished. It was brought to my attention that it's probably a good idea to test it online. Two things needed there: 1. players and
2. some sort of adjudicator to use, with which I can easily add and move around 6 unit types, factories, territory markers and 4 kinds of resources, while also keeping track of various variables (although that can be done fairly easily outside of the adjudicator).
Can you help with either of those?
61 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
01 Feb 16 UTC
(+1)
New site feature: Voice chat press
Its simple you get a 7 player game public voice chat and webcam channel. So its like the closest thing to ftf Diplomacy since sliced bread. Can you imagine the look on Valis face when I build a fleet in Mar and hes in Italian Leponto. Come on webcam and voice chat would be hilarious.
20 replies
Open
Fluminator (1500 D)
29 Jan 16 UTC
Epic Mafia makes the news.
Hey, our live Mafia website has made the UK news:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/28/death-of-a-troll
23 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
31 Jan 16 UTC
SoS gunoats
I went from 60 games to 3 games waiting for this fucking ODC Finals to start and I need something to play but can't commit to press games.

Here's 14 SoS gunboats. Join if able and willing please. Thanks.
13 replies
Open
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
29 Jan 16 UTC
(+1)
Reliability Rating (RR) discussion
Since this has come up in the other thread-
82 replies
Open
domwnec (254 D)
31 Jan 16 UTC
How to create an app?
At work we're thinking of creating an app. No one knows how to do it internally. Has anyone gone through this before? Any valuable lessons learned? Pros and cons? Cost of development and upkeep? Thank you.
6 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
01 Feb 16 UTC
And the Groundhog.....
Wait for it...Fuck winter
1 reply
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
31 Jan 16 UTC
long phase gb
Id like to play a game but cant get Online consistenly. If you're willing please consider http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=173461
3 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
29 Jan 16 UTC
Site Update: Skill Ratings and integration
Important. Please read.
134 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
28 Jan 16 UTC
Design Competition
See broadexpert.com if you want to help with the design of my start-up company. You may make some money. I'm not going to a design company for a reason though :-)

Meanwhile, I want to start a discussion: I have a debating competition coming up next week and one of the statements will be: 'High school students lack ambition'. If I'm against this statement, I thought it would be a good idea to bring up the company. I'm not sure whether that's socially acceptable though?
52 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
29 Jan 16 UTC
(+2)
POINTS PER SUPPLY CENTRE
January is almost at an end. Can we anticipate an early publication of the report into the Moderators' grand experiment, and their verdict on the success (or otherwise) of their trial?
30 replies
Open
KingCyrus (511 D)
22 Jan 16 UTC
(+2)
Roe v. Wade
141 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
29 Jan 16 UTC
(+1)
I will Survive
Interested in knowing why we can't ditch Survive stats, but don't want to clutter the other thread...
86 replies
Open
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
30 Jan 16 UTC
(+1)
Volunteer
It seems ATC and others are stressed about all the changes going on. I need a volunteer to show up at his house and give him a massage any takers?
9 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
07 Oct 15 UTC
(+4)
School of War; Fall 2015
This thread is for the Fall 2015 class of the School of War. Please be courteous to those running the game and respect any reasonable requests they may make. This semester will be taught by Professors The Hanged Man and Hellenic Riot. gameID=168281
Page 13 of 14
FirstPreviousNextLast
 
Since this SOW is now done, when does the next one start?
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
19 Jan 16 UTC
When I, or whoever else wants to organize one, feels/istold that there are enough students/TAs/Professors interested. We try not to run more than one at a time but we've had them pretty continuously. Let's at least get the EOGs out and no longer burning from the oven before thinking about the next one :)
Just curious. :) I would be interested in being a student in one.
Lethologica (203 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
#3: Autumn '05.

Rereading the chat archive, one thing I forgot about S05 was the nature of my negotiations with Italy around Turkey. I tried to get Italy to take Smy with just one fleet, and I tried to get Turkey to let him in, so that Italy could move more fleets west, and faster. In retrospect, this was not workable. It's easier to change directions by committing in one direction and using builds to go in the other direction, rather than vacillating with your existing units. As it turned out, Turkey stood pat for my support-hold, but Italy kept both fleets east.

The tactical situation for A05 was pretty hairy. My major dilemma was attacking Rum or attacking Tri, and then I had to pick a unit to attack with. I also had a 50/50 on whether ADR would support Tri or bounce in Ven. Oh, and both Vie and Bud were under threat. Lotta stress, not a lot of fun.

I had a pretty one-track mindset at this point--play defense, punish people who attacked me, gripe to dyager_nh about the whole business. I decided that attacking Rum was unlikely to be beneficial--I could only guarantee it by moving from Bud and tapping Gal with Vie, and Bud was still purple at that point, so I was just trading one disband for another even if Turkey didn't get involved. (Of course, as it turns out, that move would've had the best possible outcome once I retreated Vie-Bud. Oh, well.) So I just moved Ser-Tri with double support, plus Tyl-Ven in case Italy didn't cover. I don't think it was a good move, and I could easily have ended up with double disbands, but I just wanted to make a simple move against a single opponent and not think about it too much. The only other good thing about my moveset was that I no longer had a unit in Greece doing absolutely nothing.

I cut back on my press--nothing to France, a curt one-liner to England when he inquired about me and Italy. I sent some indignant noise Italy's way; he claimed I'd put him on edge by keeping Tyl instead of Smy.

I interpreted Russia's Boh move as unnecessarily generating attack surface against me--which was another error on my part; Russia couldn't have reasonably anticipated that Sil would be open, so Gal-Boh really was the best anti-French move, that just also happened to be anti-Austrian. Whoops. I told him I was playing defense on his border (pure dumb bluff) and this was his chance to signal whether he actually wanted to work with me. I also suggested Boh-Mun; Russia requested Tyl S Boh-Mun, and I agreed. That didn't happen, on either side--our relationship was well and truly fucked. My guess at the time was that Russia inquired about Tyl to get information about whether Vie would be defended; domwnec can confirm, or not. Either way, I considered the deterioration of our relationship entirely Russia's fault, which in hindsight is not *entirely* true, but pretty close.

The only saving grace in my diplomacy was that Turkey didn't trust Russia's offered support to Bulgaria--which, of course, got him killed, because I was *still* trying to get Italy on my side, so I didn't support-hold Con. Sorry, Turkey.

So, yeah, this year was definitely peak frustration for me--I'd gone Bud to Tri to Bud to Tri and dropped two centers for apparently nothing. (1911 was a close second, though.)
domwnec (254 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
(+1)
Here's the rest: I don't like posting 1 year at a time...

Austria is still lying about his mis-order. I’m lying to Austria. Even if I can’t get Italy on board with an anti Austrian plan, I’m stabbing Austria. If he had told me he was going to lie to Italy things would be different. I could have planned for it and adjusted accordingly. Instead, he lies/lied. Italy is going to attack Austria. I’m supporting him into Smyrna to ensure his build for the year. I expect France to come for Italy in 1903. England didn’t tell me what he was building. I approached him with multiple concerns about the coming year since it’s “make it break it” time with the FE. I’m sure France wants him to attack me. If France moves on Italy and England move against me I’m screwed. England didn’t really get back to me regarding any of my concerns which leads me to believe I’m in danger in the north. I’ve tried to encourage a solid alliance and have provided a well thought out plan for the future and heard little in response. France says he’s moving on England but I think Italy is more likely. I’ve approached Turkey to join in the fight against Austria. I specifically suggested a convoy to Rum while my fleet retakes Sevastopol. I like Turkey and I like this crazy plan we’ve come up with. However, I’ve already lied to him and even if this works he wants support into Bulgaria. He’d then have 4 units with really no place to go except through me. A year or two from now if everything works out and Turkey is at 5 or 6 units, where does that leave us? The future looks bleak. For this reason, I’m going to lie, support Italy into Smyrna and hopefully end the Turks game this year.
Spring 1903: Wow! A good round for the Czar. Turkey bought the false convoy plan, Italy took Smyrna with my help. Moves to Galicia and Rumania were successful. I’m in great position to attack Austria with Italy (who now owes me one). England did not attack, I’ve got some explaining to do! Move to StP from Moscow was successful. This will likely worry England. Sweden tapped (love tapped) Norway just in case that (A)Edi was coming for me. I think England and I will be OK. Austria messaged me, “what are you doing?” and that is all. Interesting reaction. France did attack England. He wants me to help him. I’m reluctant to do so and I’ve told him so. Putting pressure on England in the north will allow France to control all of Germany’s dots and he has the naval forces to threaten Scandinavia a year or two from now. I’m trying to work out a complete demilitarization of Scandinavia with England. I’ve told him I’m going to move StP to Livonia and Sweden to the Baltic Sea in order to keep France expansion in check. Obviously this is VERY risky and leaves to centers open for to England but that relationship is worth the risk to me.
Retreats: I told Turkey that if he retreats to Syria I’d support Italy into Con and he could slide right in behind him. Italy was OK with this plan as well. Basically the most important thing is to make sure Austria can’t build. Unfortunately Turkey retreated to Armenia (the better move in my opinion anyhow) to my dismay.
Fall 1903: Peace was brokered with England thanks to a French betrayal. I will be shifting my focus to the middle of the board in order to challenge French expansion. I helped France into Munich earlier and I’m hoping he sees that Germany isn’t worth saving so I can take Berlin. France is propping up Germany now which is a complete annoyance. It’s also blatantly anti-Russian since I’ve made it clear I will do everything I can to destroy Germany. Austria defended the attack Italy and I cooked up and made it look easy. We weren’t in great position anyhow but I thought we’d take a piece out of him. I had asked Italy to cut the Aegean but he was very concerned that his army in Tunis wasn’t really doing anything and he told he might convoy instead. I also did not expect Austria to support the Turk into Ank. My TA pretty much said it was obvious but I didn’t expect it. I figured the worst case scenario would have been a bounce back to Ankara. I also thought and attack on Sevastopol was more likely but I expect Turley didn’t make that move since he could see that he wouldn’t be able to hold it. I talk to Germany hardly at all. His commentary isn’t helpful and I want him dead anyhow. France and I are still talking but the tone has changed. I think he would have been better of going against Italy and letting England and I take Germany apart. Now that he is attacking my ally and supporting my enemy I will position for our eventual confrontation.
Builds 1903: England – None. Turkey – None. Italy (F) Naples. Austria (A) Budapest. France (F) Brest. Russia (A) Warsaw. Germany (F) Berlin. Germany is completely lost.
Spring 1904: F*ing Austria NMRed! I was on a plane and if I wasn’t I could have slipped right into Bulgaria! Italy and Turkey took advantage so that’s a good thing. Germany is asking me to take the Baltic Sea. The only thing I can think here is that France told him to make that request. Obviously France told him to build a (F) in Berlin. I responded honestly, “no you may not take the Baltic Sea”. Why Germany trust the country who will clearly wipe him out eventually is BEYOND me. And yes, I’m still pissed he bounced me out of Sweden in fall 1901. And yes, I think France told him to bounce in Sweden in 1901. F*ing France! I have realized that I hate Germany in every way…and since France tells Germany what to do, I hate France by proxy. F*ing Germany! France also moved to Silesia? I don’t think this is all that threatening since I can easily block a move to Warsaw. And oh by the way, I love Turkey. I’ve stabbed him every chance I get and he keeps hanging in there. He endeared himself to Austria. He made that crazy convoy to Sevastopol. I would definitely work with him long term if I hadn’t lied so much to him. As for now, I’ll just be nice until I can attack him again since that HAS to be exactly what he’d like to do in an ideal world. I love England too…from the start. Quick responses to press, mostly well thought out in his plans. I am disappointed that he didn’t move London to the English Channel last turn. I think that was a horrible mistake although he probably suspected France would move south toward Italy. Italy said he’ll support me into Budapest next turn. Great, but that will obviously be cut.
Fall 1904: 3 builds! I lied to Austria about wanting to work together and he bought it. He had to though, my offer was very good. You could say it was an offer he couldn’t refuse. I did genuinely consider working with him but I’m not in position to do anything but attack him and there is no time to waste…France is too strong and I need builds. France agreed to let me have Berlin. I’m not convinced he’ll let me but I’d give it a 50/50 chance. Turkey offered to support me into Bulgaria from the BlkS. Of course I accepted but I don’t think there is much chance Austria won’t support from Greece. I might go for Ankara, I know that would make Italy happy. He’s worried that Turkey will take back Smyrna next year if he gets a build. I asked England to reassure Turkey that I want to work with him. It true, I do want to work with him. But, I’m not going to work with him, France is too strong and I need the build. Also, there’s no way Turkey is going to move to Ankara, it’s guaranteed. I’m a little worried England will be upset with me that I involved him in a lie but I think he’ll get over it based on his current position. I really wanted to move Ukraine to Rumania and I almost did it because I didn’t think France would shoot for Warsaw. I guessed right and defended but it wasn’t what I wanted to do. Now my gains in Austria are unlikely to last. I also hated beaching my fleet in Turkey but I knew I could slip into Ank and I think Turkey would have mounted an offensive against me with that build. The fact that he supported Austria into Smyrna certainly suggests he wasn’t sincere.
Builds 1904: There’s talk on the forum that I should forego a build. No way. I didn’t just have my best round of the game to sit back and hope everyone likes me enough not to take advantage. Russia – (A)War, (F)StP, (A)Sev. I debated a fleet in Sev but after talking to Dr. O went with the army instead. Germany – defeated, FINALLY! England – disband in London. Austria – disband in Smyrna. Italy – disband in Albania. France – (F) Brest, (A) Paris.
Pre Spring 1905 Commentary: I usually write after the moves go through but I feel like this move set will determine the outcome of this game. I completely trust England. We both always know what the other will do. Obviously he could elect to slip into Sweden but I think he’d have done that a long time ago if he was going to. I am 100% lying to France in order to attack him. He moved to Silesia unprovoked AND attacked Warsaw. I’d rather focus completely on Austria but things rarely shake out perfectly in this game. I’ve offered England support to Kiel which he rightly refused and I have also asked that he support the Baltic Sea into Kiel while I tap Munich thus breaking through the French lines and bring another fleet into action. We’ve got about 9 hours before moves go through and he hasn’t committed yet. I am moving through Norway to the NthS. I would prefer Norwegian Sea but Enlgand wants me in NthS so that’s where I’m headed. I’m supporting Italy into Con while EastM moves to Smyrna in order to rid ourselves of the Turkish menace. My armies in the center of the board are the biggest struggle for me. Austria keeps telling me how easy it will be to retake Budapest. I disagree and I think Italy still want to work with me. I’ve asked him to tap either Venice or Budapest in exchange for the 2 centers he will pick up in Turkey but he’s on the fence. The forum isn’t helping my relations with Italy which is a minor annoyance. Hopefully I get back to this today because I think this is the most interesting point in the game. Italy and England hold my fate in their hands but I have helped both of them immensely and I have not lied to either of them. Actually, I sort of indirectly lied to England and asked him to reassure Turkey that all was well and then slipped in Ankara but I don’t think that is even really a lie. All was well and I did genuinely want to work with Turkey long term…it was just that I wanted to work with him to knock him out of the game instead of helping rebuild a country who I blatantly attacked. I’m interested to know if this really bothered England or not in his EOG. ***Got a bad feeling about Italy because he never let me know if he’d support me into Rumania in return for the Con support…I told him so and let him know I’d hold off on that support for now.
Spring 1905: I got my fleet into Kiel but I was driven out of Berlin and Budapest. I’ve still got a lot of options. My plan is to support Turkey into Bulgaria, take Vienna with the help of an Italian tap on Tyrolia, lose Berlin, support England into Holland from Kiel, and support Italy into Con (I’m nervous about giving him access to the Blk Sea) and move Norway to Skaggerak. Relations with England are strong. Relations with Italy are good. Austria doesn’t talk to me because I lied to him. Turkey and I are still communicating despite our past differences. France might not have any friends left on the board. I think I was his last one. I know he and Italy are getting along but they can’t do much for each other except not attack and eventually, that won’t last.
Retreats 1905: My unit in Berlin retreated to Prussia. France’s unit in Kiel retreated into Holland.
Fall 1905: Turkey did not take my support into Rumania. I suppose that was a last FU to me after lying to him so many times. Really though, Austria was just as damaging to him as I was. Maybe he was just fed up with knowing he’d be eliminated and just not knowing exactly when it would happen. I supported Italy into Con and Austria drove Italy out of Trieste. I’m a little concerned about how we’ll proceed. I have offer support into Bulgaria in exchange for letting my fleet in Ankara follow into Con. Really, I just don’t want Italy tempted to take the Black Sea. If he bounces me in Con, I’ll understand. I moved out of Norway as I agreed to with England. I never debated staying there, I still think we can help each other. Shortly, he’ll become more of a liability than an asset and despite the fact that I really like working with him, I will attack him when it’s time to do so. I had wanted to be in the North Sea this turn but England got cold feet. Obviously a fleet in Skaggerack isn’t what my aspirations were at the beginning of the year. Again, his relationship is still important to me.
Builds 1905: Italy – (F)Naples, (F)Rome, (A)Venice. Nobody else got a build. Italy disbanded his unit in Albania which I assume means our relationship has changed unfavorably for me. It’s unfavorable for France as well.
Spring 1906: France knocked me out of Kiel. Austria knocked me out of Vienna and Rumania. Not a great round but it wasn’t unexpected. I wasn’t in a good position to hold onto some of my gains. The real problem now is that Italy tried for the Black Sea and has clearly made peace with Austria. I’ve been relentlessly talking to him to let him know there was no harm in his attack against me and I understand why he shifted forces west to capitalize on the Frenchman’s exposed southern dots. Hopefully, we’ll be able to patch things and hopefully I can keep him out of the Black Sea and keep Ankara. His initial press back to me has been very positive but it’s a little tough to trust since his move to the Black Sea could have ended my game.
Retreats 1906: England and I were the only 2 who were dislodged this phase. He retreated to Edi which was his only option. I had a hard choice to make. I could retreat to Sevastopol and Galicia which would put me into position to destroy the Austrian army in Rumania. OR, I could retreat to Bohemia and Galicia leaving Sevastopol open but maintaining my attack options on France. I decided to leave Sevastopol open. Based on Austria’s moves, I don’t think he’ll move to Sevastopol and risk Rumania.
Fall 1906: I told France my retreats may appear aggressive toward him (which they were) but that really I was trying to get a surprise jump on Austria (which) I was. I suggested that Austria take Budapest with Rumania and let me move in behind him. In exchange I’d attack Munich with Bohemia and Silesia. I never planned to do this but I hoped the falsehood may lure Austria into thinking he could trust me one last time and maybe I could hold onto Budapest and take Rumania. Also, I was completely honest with France. I told him Kiel would be attacked and I told him the other units he was worried about would focus on Austria. I’m hoping this honestly will create a chance for us to collaborate in 1907. I’d like to take England out, DMZ the North Sea and Norwegian Sea in exchange for non-aggression with France. I think this is mutually beneficial but one thing to remember about France is that he doesn’t share. I basically begged Italy not to attack the black sea again which he agreed not to do. He kept his word. THANK YOU! I think Italy and I can work together later on in the game and I want to but the Black Sea threatens everything. The most interesting part about this turn was that I offered England Kiel (guaranteed) and he declined. I suspected he might slip into Sweden but he didn’t. I helped him hold the North Sea with Norway and hoped he wasn’t going to make a desperate move against me. I left Sevastopol and Sweden open to attack and got away with both risks somehow. I sacrificed a build and I used Berlin to take Kiel in order to further solidify my chances of working with France and also as an FU to Italy for abandoning me. Hopefully this causes the Italian advance to stall and he’ll come crawling back to me. This also puts me in a good position to wipe out England if France will work with me.
Builds 1906: France – (A) Paris and (F) Brest. Russia (F) Sevastopol. Austria (A) Trieste.
Disband 1906: England – (A) York and (F) Holland.
Spring 1907: Ok, I’m going to trust France. We have agreed to DMZ the North Sea, Norwegian Sea, Bohemia, Silesia, and Tyrolia. This is a big risk since we’ve already lied to each other once and he’s got a lot of fleets in northern England. Their next logical step is either the North Sea or the Norwegian. I’m going to attack England in the fall and I think he may be onto me. This spring I’m going to SH the North Sea and SH Kiel with Heligoland. Hopefully everything goes according to plan and in the fall I can attack Denmark and move to Sweden so he has nowhere to retreat to. Italy and I continue to talk but the content is shallow. Austria doesn’t communicate at all.
The arrangement with France worked although I’m totally vulnerable now. I need to stab England and hope France doesn’t turn on me. He doesn’t need me. I’d probably attack me if I were him but I can’t fight on all fronts and Italy and Austria aren’t going to relent. I may regret the army in Kiel. In fact I already regret it. If France hadn’t gotten a build last turn he might need me now but it didn’t work out that way.
Fall 1907: Whoa! I was attacked by everyone. England sided with France, France lied, and Austria and Italy have continued in their attacks. Austria and Italy were successfully defended but England and France took 3 dots. I have to disband 2 and 1 unit on my front line against France was destroyed. I put everything I had into the new partnership with France and it back fired. My only chance at survival is to become an integral part of the stalemate line. I want France to be a solo threat now.
Builds 1907:
Disband 1907: Russia – (F) Sweden, (F) Heligoland Bight
*** I’m in desperation mode. No diplomatic ties to anyone or significant moves I can really make. I’ll be surviving as long as possible. My EOG will probably be lacking for a while unless there is some glimmer of hope.
Lethologica (203 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
Interesting read. (The formatting, though!)

In A05 we definitely talked enough for the back-and-forth about Mun I mentioned in my previous comment, which both of us ignored. I had already stopped believing you then. What was the purpose of that exchange?
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
20 Jan 16 UTC
Yeah Russia from your EOG you really lied too much. You can't lie to everyone and expect them to help you. Sooner or later everyone will decide they rather remove the risk of a habitual liar.
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
Agreed. Diplomacy is a game of trust, not lies. You don't build trust by lying.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
20 Jan 16 UTC
That's disingenuous. People trust lies, in fact its an essential part of the game.

Do you wish to rephrase to "Diplomacy is a game of truth, not lies."?
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
20 Jan 16 UTC
Because my goal is to have everyone trust me, including my lies and the lies I tell to get them to trust me. They are in NO way mutually exclusive.
domwnec (254 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
Letho - The discussion over Munich was just to keep our discussion going. I knew you were interested in it and I wanted to know how and why you were interested in it. What I got out of that dialogue was that you just didn't want me to attack you.

Gobble - I lied enough to provide my enemies with good opportunity to portray me as a habitual liar. It was a lesson learnt the hard way.
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
"What I got out of that dialogue was that you just didn't want me to attack you. "

I feel like maybe you already knew that :)
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
20 Jan 16 UTC
what I mean is that people trust your lies only if your truths end up being true. If all you do is lie, your words aren't worth shit.
Hastati (100 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
The best lies are 90% truth as they say.
domwnec (254 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
(+3)
Ssoren, thorfi, bosox, PF, ATC, and gobble. Thank you for keeping the thread alive when THM and HM fell off the map.
beniliusbob (0 DX)
20 Jan 16 UTC
(+2)
FRENCH END-OF-GAME STATEMENT
Thank you NunaEtsuko, Gonnor, IshmaelGuantanamoIV, Lethologica, pangloss, domwnec and backscratcher for a fun and exciting game - I enjoyed playing with everyone, both as friend and foe. Thanks also to Chancellor Valis for organizing (and subbing as my TA early on!) and to Professors Hellenic Riot and The Hanged Man, and to everyone who commented in the forum thread (the peanut gallery really makes the SOW). The greatest heaping of thank-yous goes to Ogion for the benefit of his wisdom and a huge number of important lessons on the playing of this game. It was a privilege to be tutored by such an expert!

And finally, apologies for being a windbag and writing a wall of text. I've tried to scale down my original notes as much as possible and only retain the essence of each year.

PRE-GAME STRATEGY
I figured that the most reasonable thing to do was aim for the 17 centers of the Western Stalemate Line, and pick up Moscow or Tunis as the 18th. In retrospect, not deciding on which of those two would be my eighteenth was a grave error. One does not simply "pick up" an eighteenth.

I also reasoned that I couldn't attack Germany on my own without the leverage of a fleet in the North Sea. This implied destroying England first. I hoped for a Sea Lion alliance with Germany to achieve my short-term goal of removing England from power, and a long-term alliance with Russia to break down Germany afterwards. I also planned on long-term friendship with Italy, the only neighbour I thought I wouldn't need to come into direct conflict with except in the case of my very last centre.

OPENING
I had planned on taking Spain and Portugal and maneuvering myself into a position to have a small say in the Belgian Question. Ogion suggested instead that, since Spain and Portugal are essentially uncontestable centres for France, the better opening was to gain strategic leverage of Belgium, capturing it by whatever means possible, picking up one of the Iberians in 1901 and the other in 1902.

I lobbied hard with France and Germany, arguing that "French Belgium" was "more stable" than the alternatives. Both agreed. I was presented with an early conundrum, though: England wanted to go to the Channel. Since he had already granted me rights to Belgium, I argued that a Channel move risked netting him zero builds if Russia moved Moscow to St. Petersburg. I also pointed out that an opening to Yorkshire, Norwegian Sea and North Sea guaranteed he could defend London if I was treacherous and went to the Channel myself, while still netting him Norway. He agreed.

Meanwhile, I had problems with Germany. He was slow to respond to communications and reluctant to share his objectives. I later learned that this was because he had suggested a Western Triple to myself and England, and I had expressed my dislike for such an alliance with England, who had passed it on to Germany. Nonetheless, my overall impression of Germany was that he was suggesting moves to me while not sharing his own. On the other hand, England and I had engaged in honest, authentic debate over Belgium, the Channel, and our long-term objectives.

And so my pre-game strategy was trashed, and the Entente Cordiale was born. As my TA had reminded me, "The game is Diplomacy, not Tactics."

1901: L'ENTENTE CORDIALE
This was overall an excellent year. Italy not only kept the peace with me, but attacked Austria (I'd passed the idea to Turkey that he recommend Italy occupy Tyrolia; whether this message got through and convinced Gonnor I'm not sure); Germany didn't seem to quite pick up on the significance of the English-French alliance, and repeatedly antagonized Russia in Sweden; I lifted The Hanged Man's idea for a Holland bounce and proposed it to England, who complied; and Russia built his army in Moscow, which I had suggested as a "good compromise" for "diplomatic purposes." The only needle was the obvious heavy targeting of Turkey, which implied a potentially quick resolution in the east. I provided as much advice as possible to Turkey to keep him going.

Finally, I lifted Germany's statement, "Look, I'm going to attack whoever's being attacked," and used it to paint him as untrustworthy and opportunistic to the other players. I don't know whether this really converted into wins for me, but Germany did seem quite isolated and targeted until his destruction (and that isolation may have played into my opportunity to use him as a janissary later).

1902: OPERATION RHINELAND
I spent a long time agonizing over move sets fearing an early stab by England. Ogion and I debated move sets that included moving the Brest army to Picardy to defend Belgium, but in the end I decided to haul full-on with the alliance. My rationale was that England had already scuttled his cachet with Germany with the Holland bounce, forcing him to align with me, and also - probably more importantly - that making signs of untrustingness to England spoiled the alliance and didn't allow me to take full advantage of the flexibility an alliance grants.

Both England and I got Russia's help to take German SCs - a serious stroke of luck for me in the form of Munich (an idea Russia took a long time coming round to). This became more problematic as I realized that Russia was little inclined to go to war with England. Russia, though he wanted Berlin, slowly seemed to back off that aggressive track - and generally wouldn't commit to involving himself in a war with England at all (leaving me very concerned about my next target, as neither Italy nor England seemed easy marks). He seemed wary of destroying Germany and utterly opposed to the destruction of England.

Luckily, I convinced England not to build a fleet in Liverpool, insisting that my fleets would head south towards Italy - though at that point I still wasn't quite sure what I would do with them.

1903: A GIFT FOR QUEEN VICTORIA
Stabbing England was an agonizing decision, and one that in retrospect reasoned incorrectly about which centers it was most important for me to break into. I was running with the logic that "France and England can't be friends forever," but without really understanding the importance of timing to that statement.

Specifically, I was worried that I would get into a slog with Italy in the Mediterranean while England parachuted into St. Petersburg, whereafter he would have nowhere to expand except into my undefended derriere.

This sounded good rationally, but I had an excellent relationship with England. (Lesson learned: you can probably reduce your chance of being stabbed if you can make everyone like you.) In retrospect, attacking England meant I never broke into the Mediterranean and scuttled any solo ambitions, and it also left me feeling very isolated: I didn't have the same quality of relationship with anyone else on the board. Even though I profited in the short-term, this stab was one of my biggest regrets, and I continued to feel guilt and wanted to find a way to resolve the English conflict that kept him alive up until he broke his janissary status in 1910.

The rest of my diplomacy this year was geared towards keeping both Italy and Russia appeased and on my side (though Russia continued to be a laggard and refused to cooperate in my assault on England). I brought Germany onto my team by promising him Holland, which I did not provide, and then Kiel, which I did (to England's detriment). My greatest success was convincing Germany to build a fleet, which I truly did think we could use against Denmark - until Germany showed up in Livonia and the Baltic, at which point we were forced to act otherwise.

(I also believe this was the turn I recommended Turkey get support back into Ankara, which turned out alright as well, though Turkey was still doomed much earlier than I had hoped.)

1904: THE WALL
I would've preferred that Germany remained alive as long as necessary for me to finish my war with England; the destruction of Germany implied a war with Russia to my mind. I was not impressed with Russia's moves to Livonia and Baltic as he had done nothing to alert me to his ambitions in Germany and had in fact repeatedly refused to entertain a joint offensive there. I had to assume his moves were, even if principally anti-German, in the long term anti-French.

Once Russia was in a position to attack Berlin and I had moved into Silesia (expecting a bounce there as Russia, I presumed, would move there from Warsaw), I saw no choice but to make sure that I took Kiel when Russia took Berlin. An extra stab at Warsaw was chancy but could've put me in a solo position so had to be done. My aggressiveness here was largely due to Russia giving me only lip service and no in-depth view of his plans, forming an image of him in my mind as an opportunistic land-grabber I couldn't rely on for more than a phase.

1905: WAR OF RUSSIAN AGGRESSION
At this point my relationship with Russia deteriorated drastically (tactically, anyway - we were still kidding around in the press, though we also both provided very complete lists of utterly false moves to each other... maybe we got along because we're both wretched, scummy liars...). Russia's advances and his cooperation with England had me on my back foot and feeling hard-pressed. This all could have turned out very badly if Russia hadn't been ridiculously overextended, fighting in Austria, Turkey, and occupied Germany at the same time.

Diplomatically this was a very quiet time, as I had two enemies to fight in the north and relative peace in the south. That would change with Italy's builds.

1906: NEVER TRUST AN ITALIAN
Italy chose this year to disband one of his forward units and come back with two shiny new fleets ready to land in my waters. This was probably the only time I traded seriously aggressive press with anyone. I was deeply annoyed that Italy had so clearly decided to attack me, but more so I found it absurd that he continued to deny that that was the purpose of his builds. He later claimed that my insistence on moving to Western Mediterranean (because he had disbanded an army for another fleet, threatening me) was what made him decide to go to war with me. I still think that's obviously absurd and it was a calculated preparation for aggressions (and very good, well-timed preparations, too, since it kept him out of the Med permanently)... but I will leave the truth to Gonnor!

Elsewhere, war continued sluggishly and painfully as I now juggled three fronts. Diplomatic exchanges were still at a low. My empire grew, but it didn't feel like I was getting any more powerful.

1907: THE ENTENTE STRIKES BACK
With the blows Russia and I were trading, the only way to move forward was to bring England back on board. This opportunity came when Russia stood in Norway and broke down the English empire further - apparently, without the English monarch's authorization.

England and I concocted a brilliant plan and deceived Russia mercilessly: I convinced Russia I would leave off my offensive so he could attack Denmark, and that by moving to Sweden he could prevent an English retreat there (surely North Sea wouldn't do anything but rash!). This would benefit us both by letting us turn our attentions to the Austro-Italian upstarts in the south. Meanwhile, I promised England safety in Denmark and had him order his North Sea fleet into Norway, and mounted an attack on Kiel myself. Russia lost his grip on Scandinavia (finally destroying his Swedish fleet), and the result was a significantly reduced Tsardom and forward movement for the western forces.

1908: PARANOIA INTENSIFIES
Although the blow delivered to the Russian behemoth was satisfying, the main result was intense paranoia of an Austro-Russian alliance. England had suggested this possibility to me, and although I initially doubted it the more I thought about the ramifications the more it made sense. With Russia facing doom, it seemed reasonable that there might be a rapprochement.

Such an alliance did not form, but I lost Spain and England NMR'd, and Austria was moving into a progressively better position along the MSL (to be honest, I only realized the importance of his Silesian and Bohemian armies when he added Prussia to the list the following year). Despite my progression in the west, things were not looking so rosy anymore, and I began to understand the true nature of stalemate lines.

1909: NO TALK
Not that talk was unnecessary or undesirable, but at this point, I was essentially gritting my teeth and playing gunboat. This was obviously from stress and an inability to think of how to bargain my way to a better position... although Italy and Austria's cooperation against me made sense, and it can be hard to argue with a really sensible strategy. Nonetheless, my disappearing solo chances certainly played a role in my (aggravated) silence.

1910: DOWNFALL
England's daring run into Norway and then NWG surprised me, though it shouldn't have. Although I truly was trying to find ways to solo while keeping England alive (partly out of guilt, but mostly because I just really liked playing with NunaEtsuko on my team), obviously from England's perspective it was all lies.

I was seriously becoming worried about Austria's position, and the one victory I could claim this year was having fear-mongered about Austria to Italy, suggesting he attack Trieste to guarantee no fleet builds. He never replied, but lo and behold, Trieste was green in Autumn.

1911: DIRTY ORC TRICKS
England's move to NAO was brilliant and filled me with righteous rage (I'd been sending him reverse-psychological messages hoping he'd make a go for NTH). Although I had spent the whole game since the stab feeling guilty and trying to imagine scenarios where I could solo with England surviving, I at this point was fantasizing about popping that last fleet like a fly. Genius move, you dirty dirty pig.

The only good idea I had to work with came from Ogion, who suggested I ask Italy to DMZ Gulf of Lyons so that I could disengage from the Spanish zone to destroy England for a three-way draw. Italy completely ignored this, which was the right choice: I would've used any opening as an excuse to barge into the Mediterranean.

I ended up deciding to use global chat at this point to try to sway Austria and Italy to disengage from me to allow the kill. My reasoning was that I had utterly used up all diplomatic cachet: I had lied, stabbed, lunged, and otherwise been aggressive and duplicitous enough that everyone knew better than to trust me. I figured the global approach might make me look more transparent, but overall the discussion didn't resolve in the way I had hoped and we soon all fell back into bilateral communications.

1912: Zweihander Alliance
Jumping on Italy's decision not to draw, I cancelled my vote and suggested a two-way draw to him. This involved some hard bargaining since a two-way had to be along the MSL and that implied Spain and Marseilles remaining in my hands.

Although Italy was - though not entirely in agreement with my plans for my southern colonies - initially amenable to a two-way, I was astonished that he didn't move against Austria: Tyrolia and Trieste simply holding, though he couldn't have saved Trieste anyway, really surprised me.

What I perceived as an Italian lack of will to do the dirty work encouraged me to try to drum up a two-way with Austria, but he had long ago decided he was ready to draw and no spitballing was going to change his mind.

It seemed that the Zweihander was dead the same round it had been brought to life.

1913: LEAGUE OF EXERTIONS
As much as I had latched onto Italy's admission that drawing the game without stalemate lines was hooey, hoping to leverage that into the win, when he nearly NMR'd in 1912 he came back to me and explained that he was low on time to play and would vote to draw.

Not wanting to be the guy who forced everyone to keep playing in what one might hope would be a collegial rather than a ruthlessly competitive atmosphere, I decided the solo (which was a long shot anyway) wasn't worth being a dink and drew as well.

MAJOR LESSON LEARNED
To riff off a post by A_Tin_Can, the single most important thing I learned in this SOW is that stalemate lines are to be crossed, not held. I came in thinking that attaining the MSL was a legitimate goal. Now, I know that the real goal is to get across it as soon as the opportunity arises. Although I thought I was doing quite well up until even 1908, and though I clung to hope in the final years as well, the reality is that the borders of the MSL were so strongly contested and/or held that there was no real hope for me to break over and find my 18th.

This goes back to the very beginning of the game, where I hadn't decided where I would get that number 18. ATC suggested that one should pick not just an 18th, but a 19th, 20th, 21st, and so on; and that getting those "higher" SCs earlier is better. In games I've played since I made this realization, I've reduced my emphasis on the "natural" parts of a power's likely 18 SCs and focused instead on the more peripheral SCs - Austrian SCs for Germany, English SCs for Russia, etc.

REMATCH
Rematch?
Lethologica (203 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
#4: Spring '06.

As soon as moves were in, I pressed Italy one more time about going after France. With England on the verge of defeat, Italy potentially with three builds, this was his last chance to play offense in the west. I just wanted to fight Russia, but I also threatened to throw to Russia if Italy attacked me again. I don't know if this had any effect--I doubt I could have thrown effectively in my sorry state, especially if Italy had retreated to Alb. More likely Italy made the decision based on a SWOT of France. That's Gonnor's tale to tell, though.

Russia called me a liar for not supporting Boh-Mun as promised, and it is to laugh. Later, he called with a suggestion of...Tyl-Mar? I wasn't sure if he was desperate or just fucking with me. I repudiated both comments and left it at that.

Italy agreed to go west, and proved it with his builds, to my great relief. I'm afraid I overestimated his westward opportunity, because I assumed France wouldn't respond immediately, which was silly of me. But I did expect Italy to take and hold French centers, and I was surprised in later years to see him rebuffed. I also encouraged him to go for BLA, though of course BLA vs. Con was a guessing game with Russia.

France immediately tried to get me to move against Venice; I explained to him that I simply couldn't afford to. I'd had both Italy and Russia against me for quite long enough, and I wasn't anxious to return to that quagmire. I was happy to work with France against Russia, though. This awkward state of affairs--France fighting Italy and Russia, with me happy to fight Russia but not Italy--persisted for the next two years.

What remained for me was to figure out how to retake centers from Russia. I had one of Vie/Bud/Rum, and I wanted two. It took a while for me to arrive at the moveset I finally used--there were many possible attacks and many possible ways for Russia to defend--but I finally found something that would succeed against any combination of Russian moves. I took Vie and Rum for Bud, and finally started to grow.
Lethologica (203 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
*overuse of 'finally' that will niggle at the back of my mind for the rest of the afternoon
>.<
domwnec (254 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
BB, I'll play again anytime.
domwnec (254 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
@BB - The shift to Baltic and Livonia had little to do with Germany and everything to do with you. You were in great position. I had originally wanted to poach centers from England after you invasion but things were going to well for you at the time. Basically, I changed my strategy because I thought if I didn't you could solo. I also knew England would likely opt to work with me rather than be destroyed.

Also, the Sweden lie you and Nuna cooked up was a good one. I obviously didn't see it coming. Mostly because I didn't think he'd ever trust you again.
Ogion (3882 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
A rematch of sorts sounds lovely. working with BB was a joy, I must say, and you can see why from the thorough EoG!

BB also suggested getting some TAs in on the rematch, so first come first serve, I figure three TAs?

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=172960

Let me know for the password
Lethologica (203 D)
20 Jan 16 UTC
I also told Nuna their best move was Nth-Nor and either Den H or Den-Kie. I acted on the premise that FR must be happening, though, and it was in the later part of the phase, so IDK if it had any actual effect. More on that later.

It's interesting, though, that both France and I were completely against Russia after '05, while also at times assuming the other was open to allying with him due to the demands of the position.
Nice. I just got caught up on the EOGs. It's quite interesting to hear what everyone was thinking in the games.
beniliusbob (0 DX)
22 Jan 16 UTC
(+1)
I have a question for @Lethologica:

Leth, at one point you said I "had overplayed the fear card." I definitely ran a game of hysterical press where I fingerpointed about everyone's solo threat but my own. Would you be able to provide a little more insight into whether this ever worked on you, and if so when it wore thin and how, and if not why it never resonated?

In return I have some thoughts about your willingness to play silent at times... in particular, you at one point - I believe after England helped you into Kiel? - told me that "this is no longer a diplomatic situation, purely a tactical one... I will reply when I feel we have returned to a diplomatic footing" (or something like that). I was bowled over by that comment but you had the force to back it up. Nonetheless I basically always send copious press (the only exception being when I was trying to figure out what to chat about with England after the stab)... and at times I was infuriated that you were obviously simply ignoring my messages. This played into a general dislike for Letholaustria, although I don't know that it ever turned into action since I had no real way to hurt you. Did you find yourself playing this hard, silent type with other players as well? Can you delve into your approach/rationale? Did you realize you were raising my hackles or were you simply not interested in expending effort when you already knew you would continue your offensives regardless?

And for the record, my annoyance at your press strategy does not extend beyond the frustrations of the French position vis a vis the Austrian correspondence in gameID whatever it was! :)
Lethologica (203 D)
22 Jan 16 UTC
@beniliusbob
Great points to bring up. I did become impatient with your fear, and the roots of that were in our A06 conversation, where you expressed a desire to draw out of concern for your survival. I couldn't understand what you feared. Italy and Russia were attacking you, but you had timely defense against Italy, and Russia's southern front was collapsing to me--and I couldn't fight Italy, but I equally couldn't *not* fight Russia, so you'd gain either purple territory or purple alliance. England was the only wild card, and their loyalty was necessarily negotiable. So I figured you were still the strongest power on the board, with more growth opportunities than threats.

As these predictions were borne out over the next few years, I shifted into solo prevention mode. I worried that Russia would throw to you. Meantime, you pushed me about Italy stabs, Russian cooperation, and Munich; I knew that Italy wouldn't stab until the French solo threat was defused, that my relationship with Russia was shot, and that Munich couldn't be taken and held. (Indeed, Munich *was* taken and not held in '09.) So these fears were not credible to me either. I did worry about Italy stabs, because I'd left myself so exposed--but those fears were more "what if Italy does something dumb" than "what if Italy becomes a solo threat," so the fears you tried to cultivate were not the fears I had. Indeed, Italy becoming a solo threat was the situation I wanted, as it was the only way I could solo.

There was also a lot of fear going around about me soloing. Of course it was in my interest to downplay such fears, but I also didn't think it was likely to begin with. I had no fleets! I couldn't take the north *or* the south! I would need Italy to overextend into France to have a shot at it, and that never materialized because Italy couldn't hold your territory *or* turn the corner.

I think your fears may have affected Italy, though. It's another explanation for why he turned on Russia, and it certainly was a factor in the A10 drawish stab (which wasn't "something dumb" like the stabs I'd feared before, it was brilliant and also incredibly frustrating).

And A10 (before moves) was when I pressed you about being in a tactical situation, so let's segue into that. It was shortsighted of me, I think, to send that press. I was in your territory and I wanted to keep it; I had to devote most of my energy to containing Russia. So I was tactically pretty fixed for the turn. England's offer of support into Kie changed that, but not in a France-friendly way. Anyway, I knew we were fighting, and I wanted to send honest press about it--"hey, we're fighting, let's acknowledge that and maybe see our way to an agreement later on." That's not a bad idea when you're entering a situation--I sent that sort of message as opening press to Italy in A04, for example. But it's not good press when you've been talking to someone for several years--instead of opening negotiations, it halts them in an unsatisfying way. Instead, I should have been talking about longer-term diplomacy even as we were fighting. So that's on me, and it was lazy, and I'm glad you mentioned it.
Hi all. I just wanted to apologize for abandoning you mid-game. Sorry I couldn't sustain the commentary workload.
Ogion (3882 D)
22 Jan 16 UTC
Friends,

We are still lookin for a few more folks for the TA/student game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=172960

Password is padawan
Lethologica (203 D)
22 Jan 16 UTC
No worries, THM. Saying no where you can is a valuable thing to do.
domwnec (254 D)
22 Jan 16 UTC
Italy?
Germany?
Turkey?
England?
beniliusbob (0 DX)
22 Jan 16 UTC
Up to 5 players for the quote-unquote rematch... only two more much-sought-after spaces remaining...

Page 13 of 14
FirstPreviousNextLast
 

406 replies
brofistme (100 D)
30 Jan 16 UTC
JOIN LIVE GAME
NOW NOW NOW
9 replies
Open
brofistme (100 D)
30 Jan 16 UTC
JOIN THE LIVE GAME
please
2 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
29 Jan 16 UTC
Screen shots
Is it against the rules to send screen shots to a player, in an attempt to prove that something has been said to you in private press?
31 replies
Open
TrPrado (461 D)
03 Jan 16 UTC
(+9)
Mafia XVI Game Thread
See inside for buckets of fun.
4426 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
28 Jan 16 UTC
(+1)
Grand Prix and Boroughs 2016
Two tournaments you guys should definitely try to make it to!
Grand Prix at TotalCon http://www.totalcon.com/
The Boroughs 2016: www.TheBoroughsDiplomacy.net
7 replies
Open
Riotleader007 (100 D)
29 Jan 16 UTC
Newish
Hey I am new to the website but have played the board game so I am not a complete newbie haha I want to play some on here and figured someone can set up a fun starter game and we all have a little fun! :) Game on!
4 replies
Open
ishirkmywork (1401 D)
26 Jan 16 UTC
Russian Opening to Silesia Spring '01
This opening has become a little personal favorite of mine, (if I am Russia, France or Italy) and am wondering if anyone has thoughts, experience, or tactics to share about it. Convincing Russia to do it if you are France or Italy can be difficult -- but well worth it for all involved. You need an imaginative Russian though.
33 replies
Open
00matthew2000 (454 D)
28 Jan 16 UTC
New Vdiplomacy game if anyone is interested.
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=25187
1 reply
Open
Page 1301 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
Back to top