"If you were to describe the game you wanted to play in three words, what would they be? What about the game you actually played?"

My answer is the same for both: "Control my destiny."

@Demon, @Flum, I'm curious, it's hard to measure activity level, and sending more messages is not necessarily always "better," but I'd be interested to know how many pages your final tribe message list is. I know you have a lot of messages from Balki, but what is the total length?

My convo with Flum

He goes: Thu 25 May (To: You, from England) - Spring, 1901: Well I don't have it yet lol. Maybe I don't want it.

- then we talk about unrelated things for a few lines. Then he goes:
Fri 26 May (To: You, from England) - Spring, 1901: lol, thanks.

Also, I think I would still like the white rock. If it makes me a target I don't even care anymore. I kind of want to have something to show for the ezio stab if he's upset later.

And I said "Alright. I'll give it to you"

And omg Balki you removed so much of that convo wow when I'm on my laptop I'll post the whole thing this is ridiculous

@Demon, no I didn't. I just removed stuff about my kids and weekend plans. Otherwise, it's a copy/paste.

And yeah, the part between Flum saying "Maybe I don't want it" and then "lol thanks" is me explaining to Demon that her honoring her agreement to give Flum the white rock will impact my view of her credibility in agreeing to take me to final 3.

I fucking nudged that shit.

Wait what. A copy paste of what. I have this

Thu 25 May (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: What is the story with this white rock? Flum seems to believe it is promised to him. Is that true?

Thu 25 May (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1901: Ah yeah, I was going to give it to him. Do you object?

Thu 25 May (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: No, of course not. It's up to you. I was just curious.

What I don't want, of course, is a final 3 deal between you and Flum. Cause then I'd get super jealous.

Thu 25 May (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1901: Well the deal was he'd vote for Ezio and protect my best interests if I gave him the rock. But it had nothing to do with him needing to be in the final three. We can even oust him this turn if you want
Thu 25 May (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1901: I just don't feel right if I don't stick to the deal I made..
Thu 25 May (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1901: Though of course I'd rather just keep my white rock, but if you me and ghug hold firm then nothing should be wrong right?

Thu 25 May (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: I will hold firm, and I will honor my final 3 agreement with you and ghug.

Of course the white rock is your call. If we are united, it doesn't really matter who has the white rock.

Great nudging fam. I pretty much straight up told you I was giving it because I dislike not sticking to deals I make.

And Flum, can you explain to me how good of an ally you were to snowy when you said to me that "Also, we're all still down for a snowy vote right?"

Yes, Demon, that is another conversation we had about the white rock.

That was on Thursday! Friday rolls around, and you still hadn't given Flum the white rock like you said you would. So I went back to you, you said:

“What do you think I should do about the white rock? Just keep it?”

And I nudged you.

:-)

It's okay to be nudged. Lots of people were nudged.

You actively ENCOURAGED the snowy vote, forget all that crap you said to him early in this thread. You did not try to save him or protect his interests. Man I'm so sick of all this bullshit.

Flum didn't ask for it again. He asked and then I gave it to him immediately. I already showed you my convo with him. It's ok Balki, you did a lot *pats head*

+1

I kind of agree with Demon here. I think Flum is straight lying about a lot of the game. I would encourage jury members to ask for transcripts. Maybe ask us all to provide a transcript for a great example of X.

All this "It happened this way or that way" is fraught with misleading gloss.

Ask for transcripts!

Also, @Demon, you accused me of this: "And omg Balki you removed so much of that convo wow when I'm on my laptop I'll post the whole thing this is ridiculous"

Can you confirm that the transcript I posted was an accurate copy/paste, omitting only details about your weekend and mine? Of course, I did not purport to paste every conversation that we ever had about the white rock, but I posted, in its entirety, the full conversation we had that immediately preceded you finally giving the white rock to Flum.

Jurors can read the transcript and decide for themselves.

Sure but you didn't post the actual convo about the white rock, like how it actually started and all the shit I immediately told you that completely follows my story. I gave Flum the white rock when he ASKED

@Demon, thank you.

@uclabb,

Your thesis was this:

"I think this is what Demon was lmao-ing about. No, Balki *you* survived because Fluminator chose you *and* gave you the white rock. He double saved you."

Now you can see the transcript on the previous page. Do you still believe that?

Sorry for not being around more.

To the 3 of you: How much was your overall game influenced by the fact that the people who you were voting out were the ones who would eventually choose the victor? Was it a crucial consideration for you at all times, or were you more concerned with simply surviving any way you could? How well do you think you struck the balance between self-preservation and appealing to the jury?

By the way, after reading the thread I'm pretty sure I know who I'm voting for - will let you guys know soon.

Jesus, can you not read Balki. I was always planning on giving Flum the white rock since I made the deal. I asked both you and ghug what you thought of it.

Hey Moscow, I mentioned that I played with the understanding that the people I voted off would be the ones who would vote at the end. I tried to maximize honesty and minimize damage accordingly. Obviously it wasn't always possible, as with you - admitting I was going to help vote you off with Flum would have been tactfully stupid for both of us. But in the final tribe especially I tried to be extremely transparent with my votes. I think ghug, Ezio and snowy should all be voting for me because I was the most honest and real with all three of them. I think I was the most honest with Vash too but he's a lost cause and I trolled his movie tournament.

@Balki- yes. Your claim was that demon survived only at yours and Fluminator's behest. This was absurd. No evidence has been presented that demon was at risk of being voted out. It was always ghug. On the other hand, evidence has been presented that you would have been voted out if not for Fluminator not having the white rock *and* choosing to save you with it. Everything you posted still leads to the conclusion that getting the white rock was Fluminator's idea, and nothing you've posted makes me think that you played more than a support role in that happening.

@Moscow --

"How much was your overall game influenced by the fact that the people who you were voting out were the ones who would eventually choose the victor? Was it a crucial consideration for you at all times, or were you more concerned with simply surviving any way you could? How well do you think you struck the balance between self-preservation and appealing to the jury?"

It's a good question. It has an implicit dichotomy that I disagree with. I don't think that the game is characterized by (1) appeals to jurors, on the one hand, and (2) active efforts to get yourself to the end.

I guess it could be in one sense. Someone could purposefully do nothing in an effort to get people to think "I want them sitting beside me at final jury." I don't think that any of us adopted that strategy.

I think we were all focused on securing our path to final jury, and I think my path is characterized by more active effort, more construction of backup plans to avoid the pitfalls of bad fortune, and more control.

My effort to "appeal to the jury" was the same as my effort to play well and control my own destiny. That's because I made the calculation that the jury would vote based on the person who played the hardest and best.

Granted, I may have miscalculated. And most of the jurors to speak up so far, seem more interested in using their votes to exact retribution. I did not predict that the majority of the jury would vote that way. And I'm hoping to hear from more jurors on what their criteria are.

Are you guys really arguing who benefited more from me getting the white rock?

@uclabb said: "Your claim was that demon survived only at yours and Fluminator's behest. This was absurd. No evidence has been presented that demon was at risk of being voted out. It was always ghug."

ghug was making decisions and doing stuff to impact the game. Demon was mostly not doing stuff. ghug was Flum's target because, at jury, ghug had more valid arguments for why he was doing stuff to impact the game.

This is what I mean when I say that final tribal happened to Demon, more than Demon controlling her destiny to arrive here. At that stage, Flum and I had control. We decided. Demon was selected, and here she is. That's an oversimplification, but that's my point. It is not at all inconsistent with your statement that "No evidence has been presented that demon was at risk of being voted out. It was always ghug."

"Are you guys really arguing who benefited more from me getting the white rock?"

No. I don't think anyone has argued about that.

@Moscow: yes. More detailed answer soon.
I'm fully aware I blew it with several jury members. (Bozo being the main one probably)
I was trying to keep it at a minimum though.

We were arguing about who made proactive moves to impact the game. And we were going back and presenting transcripts to fact-check some claims that folks made.

There was a time where I wondered if I wanted demon to keep the rock so she and ghug would look more threatening to Balki

That's when I told demon I wasn't sure if I wanted it yet