Maniac's first post was classic Maniac, which is to say that it was classic Maniac trying to direct traffic in the most useless way possible. Since then, he hasn't done anything interesting. Demon seemed town early on to me and I liked what she said about brain's poetry actually pointing things out as opposed to thinking of it as being unsubstantial shit. Rdrivera immediately called himself out as a lurker and then told us not to lynch him for it, and then he didn't do a very good job at analyzing CB after that. I guess that's sorta scummy.

I was the first Ghug voter. It was a joke vote as a reference to the how will Trump die thread. I left the vote up until I saw something more suspicious.

Which was Spirit, I didn't like the way he reacted to Snowy's suspicions of him.

Snowy, since you can't read, I'm just going to copy what I said word for word until you digest it:

I would be happy to see a ghug wagon come back and I would be on board with it if it did because he’s scummy as hell and I have no idea how you think he’s town, but as I indicated, I would first like to know why the people that were voting him were doing so. 

Thanks, damian.

@brain ... you said that the newbs are obsessed with voting ghug. What makes you say that?

I suppose there's little point wasting breath with you. You somehow get n1'd every time even if your scum hunting is about on par with Vash

Damian what is it about NES. He's said little, so you must have something to go off it

You townread ghug, I scumread him. You wanna tell me why you townread him and maybe we can come to a deal here?

Its a pressure vote mostly.
While I didn't like the no comment votes, they felt like someone trying to find a wagon without giving evidence to use against him. Thats really not much to go on.

Its more that he also really hasn't said anything, I want to see how he responds/what he says if his wagon gains momentum. I feel it might be informative.

@CB you think I'm new? We've played two complete games together (the only ones you've ever played on this site if I'm not mistaken) and I was in the most recent one too but was subbed out N1 because I had too much going on. Anyway, your point is probably the best of the people hard or soft accusing me, I could be scum hunting and obviously more, but several things arose because of my shitposting, so I don't think it was not useful. Also it is D1 and there is very little to go off of, and more people were shitposting than not, so I'm not sure why I left a bad taste in people's mouths more than bb, snowy, or ghug, but ok, you're right it is about time to actually try a bit.

Three people are acting very strangely from what I can see.

The first is Vash, he is trying, which is really odd for him, every other game I've seen him play he has lurked virtually the whole time and said and did the minimum to not get subbed. I don't know if this makes him scum, but it is strongly out of character and odd, although it is nice to see.

The second is Fluminator, he hasn't posted anything of substance besides his first post which was just an inane "I'm Town" and has voted both me and vash without giving any explanation once so ever, which isn't like what I remember from him playing in the past. Feels very strange, especially since he voted me and then dropped the mic for the night right when it seems like a major wagon could form on me. Towny vets who know the flum meta need to chime in here and analyze him too, as I haven't played with him as much as many of you have.

The third is New England Separatist, like Flum he voted me with no explanation, and while my vote was initially just to get him to say something about why, he really does seem to not want to answer, which is really scummy to me. His jumping on me immediately after Damian voting me screams opportunistic scum trying to start a wagon to me, and right now he's looking like the best lynch to me, even if I think his character is funny and a bit sexy.

I think Commader Byron and Damian seem towny. Damian actually gave a decent explanation of his votes, even when they were on me, I believed him and I could see his reasoning even if he was off the mark. CB reads like all of his town plays before, but then again I've never played with a scummy CB so idk what that looks like. In any case, these two are doing the most pro town stuff at the moment, regardless of alignment, so I'd be opposed to lynching them.

In the mix of maybe is bb and snowy, they seem very standard for their play style and I'm leaning town, but past games have shown I can't read either of them for shit, so I'd rather wait on them. Demon seemed to vote for damian after he voted me, not a lot of explanation unless it was because she liked my jokes and didn't want me to die, but it seemed a bit odd, but I don't have good knowledge on how she plays. The ghug wagon is just standard, he doesn't seem scummy or towny, nor do the people on the wagon, it is just tradition it seems at this point.

Just a word on the people voting for me, the only argument so far has been because I asked snowy to vote for me after he accused me without backing it up with a vote, clearly as a joke, and busted his chops about it and shitposted in the first few pages like a lot of others did. That's it, and anyone correct me if there's any other reason at all. If that's a good enough reason to lynch me D1, fine, they're have been worse reasons for a D1 lynch, but that's the entire case against me right now.

<Quick Digest for Ghug to read>
Slight Scum
NES
Flum
Vash

Slight Town
Byron
Damian

Meh but suspect
Brain
Snowy
Demon

Null
Ghug and his wagon
everyone else

yeah? would you say his not saying much contributed to your choice of pressure or was that separate from his barnacly ways?

do you still feel at the current time that a lurker lynch would be more effective a reveal than one of your suspicions?

who says it was a joke spirit

you people seem to be making a lot of baseless assumptions
should be more careful about that lest you... slip up

His not saying much is definitely why I want to pressure him. I'm hoping it'll force him to talk. Which I think will be informative.

I don't feel I have any strong suspicions. The strongest case I've got is the one on Spirit and its really just a single one of his posts felt scummy to me. So yes. If the day was ending soon I'd be pushing for a lurker lynch. As I said to DO I feel like we can still get a significant amount of information from lynching a lurker especially if there are several competing lurker trains.

Do you think that there will be competing lurker trains? I don't think that I have ever seen that on D1. Even if that did happen, how do we gleam the same amount of information from preferably at least three lurker trains that we could from at least three trains that are a mix of talkative people, lurkers, or whoever people think is scummiest so far? It seems to me that that severely limits our ability to interact with the people that are going to be on the block for the first few days of this game if they don't actually talk.

you want to lynch HR then because that guy is a game thrower

@ snowy Me asking you to vote for me was clearly a joke. As I said, I can't read you for shit, ever, but my guess was you had a malicious tingling in your divining rod over me and that's why you singled me out for pressure, but you weren't committed enough to vote but wanted to see if anyone would hop on me, which they did.

Also bo seems towny as well, though I always read him town. I'd be against a bo lynch on the principle that he's great when he's town and mafia love to kill a towny bo, so let's not do their work for them. If he makes it to mid game without a good reason, then I say we could consider lynching him.

“The first is Vash, he is trying, which is really odd for him, every other game I've seen him play he has lurked virtually the whole time and said and did the minimum to not get subbed.“

Lmao, does Vash really get called out for actually playing a little on D1 instead of doing jack shit until D5? That’s how you know it’s bad. Keep it up, Vash, you’re doing great.

So damian, you want us to have multiple trains on lurkers - but how does one justify picking one over another, and would this justification hold any weight what so ever? Think about it a little. I can be like #v0t3 captainmeme because he's lurking, and then switch to like #v0t3 gu@k because he's also lurking. And you learn nothing of what or why I'm choosing one over the other, and nor do I because I'm literally picking a lurker at random.

I fail to see how your suggestion would let us look at people's justifications as to who they vote or why. This is like some dumb strategy I expect out of like Ezio

Im looking at these posts.

damian
Day-1 47:55
page 1 Also to clarify something for the new players.
In a limited reveal game like this one as town fake claiming is dumb.
I saw some people talking about it on the sign up thread, I hope you assholes were joking.

If we have a vanilla townie fake claim and a PR counter claims, if we happen to lynch the VT they'll show up as town but we won't know their role meaning we pretty much have to lynch the other person. If you're a VT, congrats you've just killed a town power role. Asshat.

Don't fake claim.
Just don't.
Thanks.



DemonOverlord
Day-1 47:54
page 1 Yeah no fake claiming in this set up. In fact, I'm trying to figure out if it would even be beneficial to claim your role if you're getting lynched. Obviously if you think it'll save you, do it.


ghug
Day-1 47:45
page 2 @Demon you're too irresistible I can't help it ~

You should claim your role if you're being lynched for sure. We still don't want to hit PR, and it's important to get the information out if you can before you die so that we know what you've done and that you're dead.

Really where this is most difficult is the cop. We don't get the benefit of knowing when you're nightkilled and looking back at your reads, so you're going to need to do an active job of pushing the lynch towards/away from your reads as appropriate without being too obvious.

snowy801
Day-1 47:44
page 2 why would it be beneficial to not claim a PR role DO?




Maniac
Day-1 47:42
page 2 That no fake claiming rule is a good rule, don't do it people.

Welcome new players. Please post and get involved.

Could we all please try and make that extra effort this game to make our votes count. Make cases and try to win people over to your arguments by all means but when push comes to shove, be on one of the main wagons at end-of-day. It makes it harder for scum to manipulate a lynch.

Thx in advance.

Also #VoteBo to save scum the trouble of NKing him.
-----

Notes:
¤Damian urges players not to fake claim

¤Demon encourages people to not even claim at all even if being lynched

¤Ghug has some nuances and says PR up for lynch should claim

¤Maniac delivers a reiteration of a talking point thats evolved beyond just claims. He does his usual spiel about needing to consolidate. Then votes bo in an invalid format in what mostly looks like a joke.
---

Ghug looks most town here but most out of character. He usually only cares about PR claims if hes scum.

DO is advocating a blatant anti town strategy. Thats crazy.

Damians feels so helpful but as Snowy said PSA heavy.

Maniacs is totally a diatribe. I expect better from Maniac. It truly makes me sad
Hes like the Eli Manning of mafia now. This is NAI on Maniac. Too inconclusive.

But holy crap, demon openly proposing an anti town strategy of PRs just letting themselves die is shocking.

@Spirit- I don't think i called you new. I did however agree that you'd been kinda lurking and not really contributing beyond your shitposts... I do however like the rebound and it has fair points.

However, I am curious to see the interest in a NES wagon. I think i'd be comfortable with that lynch if you make it a viable wagon. He hasnt been all that helpful and he gives me a slightly odd feel.

I do have better feelings about Rdrivera and Foxcastle.... but Rd is a adept player who if town would be a major loss for us. Foxcastle i think is new, and scared; he could be good but i need to see more.

NES just strikes me as the confident and villainous type. His posts aren't saying much of anything and he seems to be sheeping onto wagons he think will be popular without much thought. Sheeping isn't scum indicative but sure as hell isn't helpful.

@brain ... you said that the newbs are obsessed with voting ghug. What makes you say that?

I had seen yavuz and seven both vote him. And byron. But seven meant to vote me apparently and got us confused somehow. Byron is not super newb I guess

brain, what is your point. what does me advocating for an anti-town strategy mean? please explain.

anyway I got an early morning so see you gys tomorrow

Brain, how do you townread ghug while also pointing out that he faked knowing the setup to try to make himself look good on page 2?

Ideally, yes. Although I suppose a mix of trains on lurkers and more active posts would work as well. Most of the actually useful information in mafia comes from two things. Slips, and votes.

If we see a slip obviously we should vote accordingly. We'll still get the same amount of information as far as votes go, and since there won't be that much to go on I hypothesize that the scum will be more free about trying to manipulate the trains away from one of their own. Which is great data.

Plus it gets rid of people that we as a town don't have a ton of data on so we aren't stuck trying to pick between two people with no real information to go off of when it really counts.

Or, if pushing wagons on lurkers actually brings them out to interact even better. Then we can all make better informed votes.

I just don't see how we lose doing it day 1. Either we get lurkers to talk, we eliminate people who are going to make things difficult for the town later. Its not like we are making the D1 lynch off a lot of solid information regardless, so I don't think we really lose much in the way of data. To me it seems like a win-win-win.

I'm open to counter arguments though.

@DO- I agree with your opinion on not having an all lurker D1.... but who do you think should be a wagon

CB, can you answer my question? I would like to know your response.

I think you should see the problem of letting mafia get an out from justifying their vote by letting them vote for a lurker because it is somehow great data.

Slips are also fake news

If we're going to get rid of people as town we should get rid of the people who are useless and will lose us the game at the end

I've been in enough games to figure out pushing wagons on lurkers doesn't actually make them participate more.

Also, can you tell me who you consider as lurkers atm? Rn, we aren't even 24 hours in, also, a lot of players get like a lot better as time passes. Like guak. If they're still lurking by d3 there is a problem

Day1 is the day we absolutely shouldn't be doing it. We should be trying to hit scum, not take a shot at the dark. The pressure should be for when the game is on

I'm going to ##unvote because unfortunately I think you're being genuine and it's reminding me of Ezio as town. I'm mostly just worried about this being your main line of thought.

@Damian- If we vote a lurker, and said lurker barely talks to anyone than we have little connecting tissue to base our next vote on. It's like starting the day from scratch. If we vote for a more talkative person and they flip town we can see who was buddying them, and who was arguing with them to determine some base level reads.... I think thats what is trying to be proposed. This isn't too say we shouldn't bus lurkers to get them to talk...

@bo- where is your question?? I thought i answered all...