They supposedly stand for small, hands-off government. The whole party is a mess though and can't agree as to what best accomplishes that.

Somebody needs to speak up for the poor, powerless, outnumbered rich. ;)

It's been for the rich for a long time, and the right often tries to portray itself as 'for the hard working people', but in reality, it reflects the interests of the rich.

The largest expansions in government lately have happened at Republican hands. Medicare part D. Homeland security and TSA. Obamacare was more the hands off, market approach that the GOP should supposedly be supporting (with some regulations that they wouldn't support, but the general philosophy us not taking over industry).

People get elected to office to represent their constituents, that is the basis of an effective and fully functioning democracy. These people don't see democracy in this way, they use it to satisfy their own ends and quite often to inflate their own personal bank balance, sponsored by huge lobby groups that chuck money at politicians like confetti at a gypsy wedding.
The system is corrupt, corrupted by millions of dollars that is used to buy politicians. It reminds me a lot of places like India but then what country hasn't been touched by political scandal where money is involved.
Take the money out of politics and you attract a better calibre of person.
After losing twice to a black guy maybe even the GOP might be getting the message that before you go on the take maybe you need to give a little first, oh yes and maybe not to be so racist, that might help them also.

The Republican party is supposed to be about the businessman. Small, Medium, Large, doesn't matter. Not all of them are "rich" either. I'm one and my company certainly hasn't made me rich. Heck I work a regular job and do my business work in evenings and weekends so I can eek out a 150k a year living and put money in retirement (still on the recovery from what 9/11 did to my accounts). Not rich by any means. Not poor, but then the whole idea of capitalism is to climb your way to the top of whatever it is you want to do with your life and make as much as possible.

So I'm both a working stiff (salaried, but still working) *and* a business owner and I used to be well represented by the Republican party. But since this whole tea party movement and the growth of the Conservative Right and the fracturing that has occurred overall, I don't feel represented by them any more. They have lost their way. Unfortunately, the Democratic party doesn't represent me either. I miss the days of Ronald Reagan and the party backing businesses big and small...

From what I've picked up over the years the Republicans support those Americans that believe in doing things off their own back and keeping as much control over their own destiny as possible. The Democrats are closer to a European right wing party, who attract quite a few lefties on the basis that they don't really have anywhere else to go. The Democrats should always win, but lots of people aspire to the Republican message even though they don't really fit it.

@Nigee - We aren't a democracy here in the US. We are a republic. It's a little different structure. Go do some research.

I'm trying to work out whether people who keep insisting the US isn't a democracy or people who insist a tomato is a fruit annoy me more :p.

It's a democracy, damn it! By any normal definition of democracy it's a bloody democracy!

And this is twice you have talked of the GOP being racist. Do you know who Herman Cain is? How about Colin Powell? Two very predominate black men in the Republican Party and Colin Powell has been begged for years by the leadership and the body to please run for office. He is a brilliant man the Republicans would love to see sit in the presidency. But he won't run. He doesn't have aspirations of power, which is exactly what would make him a great president. The point is, the party isn't racist. There are racists within it. Sure. And unfortunately the Religious Right which get so much press and have caused so much division are collectively very racist. But the party as a whole is not. Hell many of us voted for Obama the first time around because Palin scared the *fuck* out of us. The tea party is a small but vocal group and their radical ideas are tearing apart the Republican party. I wish they'd just give up calling themselves republicans and call themselves what they really are: anarchists. They want virtually no government.

America is a democracy and a republic, the UK is just a democracy. Class dismissed.

Well then I'll doubly annoy you, oct,. A tomato *is* a fruit. The use is a republic. I didn't ultimately vote for the president. Some guy tat was part of the electoral college did. I voted for him to vote my way, but he still could have gone differently. And I don't vote for or against bills in congress. I vote for a person to represent me. We are a republic. We have representatives who vote for us. If we were a democracy, we would get to vote for every tax bill that comes along like we do at the local level. But we don't.

Although Draug was wrong about the US, he's right about a tomato, it definitely is a fruit, sorry.

Also, you eke out a life at 150k per year? Poor you. Poor, edge of poverty barely able to afford anything nice you.

Well, Socrates, as long as we have representatives voting for things, we are a democratic republic or a representative republic, but we are not a true democracy. It isn't one voice one vote. Even our representation isn't equal. Not only do you have the Senate where each state, regardless of size, gets two Senators, but the division amongst the House isn't even accurate based on population.

You don't have to have one voice one vote to be a 'democracy' or have only direct democracy. I agree that we should really be called a democratic republic/representative republic, but that's because we are a republic (a representative one), that falls under the broad umbrella of 'democracy', in the common understanding of the word.

@Draug - You sound like one of the millions of squeezed middle-class US tax payers that no longer have effective political representation and have suffered a big financial hit on assets you may have worked hard all your life to build.
There must be some normal Republicans left out there who can represent the interests of the hard-working middle classes, the strivers, but will normal ever get the chance when you have nutcase far-right billionaires willing to save the USA from global armageddon. Next time around the GOP will probably go for someone like Donald Trump, oh how we'll all laugh if that car crash happens !!

One has to distinguish between democracy and Democracy. The is a democracy, i.e., the people vote; but, it is NOT a Democracy, i.e., a system of majority rule. The US is a democratic constitutional Republic, a system in which the rights of the minority are always protected from the whims of the majority.

@ SD

I know it's a god damned fruit. But it's used as veg. To all practical purposes it is veg. You don't tuck into lasagna and say "my good, this tastes really fruity" because tomatoes aren't remotely fruity in any way, shape or form.

Tomatoes are veg and the US is a democracy, and life makes sense. Being wrong has never been more right.

Uh huh. And Pluto is a planet. OK. Aren't you one of the science guys who insist on living by it? Well, science says it's a fruit and Pluto is a asteroid or other free roaming celestial body that got caught in the suns's gravity well.

@Nigee - technically I'm not middle class. True middle class incomes end below 100k. Upper middle extends into the 6 figure range so I guess that is where I fall. But my income is in the top 10% of the US (or was, it may have slipped to 11% or 12% with inflation under Obama).

Tomatores are fruity by the definition of what a fruit is, although yes they are 'used as veg'. @Draug nice Pluto reference, really annoys me when people still call it a planet.

@Draug - Apologies but where I come from income and education can define your status in society up to a point but you can't become upper class just by having money, otherwise every scrap dealer made good would be hob-nobbing at the Ritz and getting invites to the ballet.
Someone like Kate whatsherface has leapt up into the Upper Classes by marrying Wills but it is very rare you'll get that opportunity.
You can rise to various echelons of middle class society with money and education but that is where it stops.
Only breeding and usually extreme wealth will get you into the Upper Class. Then you don't need to be educated, I've met and worked with a few of these Tim, nice but dim characters.

Well, here in the US, there is no royalty except what money buys. And our class structure is purely based on money.

@ Draug

"Uh huh. And Pluto is a planet. OK. Aren't you one of the science guys who insist on living by it?"

Am I??? Good God, I hope not! I tend to stick to science when it makes sense, and it's the backdrop to most of my opinions, but in the same way that religion has no place telling you what you can eat on a Friday, science has no place telling you that what is obviously a bit of veg is a fruit. Strawberries aren't really berries, says science. Feck off and go back to arguing with religion about what started the universe, says I.

What Draugnar describes as true democracy is direct democracy, which is not actually a true democracy because there is no true democracy. Democracy is simply a form of government where the power legitimacy is ultimately traced to the will of citizens, as opposed to the will of the ruler or God or whatever. Direct democracy is just one of the ways to accomplish that; in fact, it was a supplementary tool to representative democracy in Ancient Athens already.

On the other hand, the precise nature of a republic has been in question for 2,5k years. Colloquially, a republic is a representative democracy with elected leadership. Which of course doesn't cover all the bases since that would apply to tribal military democracies, a very common form of government throughout history, which is nevertheless never classified as a republic but rather as an elective monarchy. It would also apply to Roman dictatorship as well as Cromwell's Commonwealth, governments that go against the notion "republicans" try to pass over (they are autocratic). On the other hand, many regimes labeled as republics also goes against that notion, like merchant republics of Italy (plutocracies), noble republic like Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (oligarchy), Islamic republics (where the law system is preordained by God and not people), Socialist republics (which lack political pluralism) or republican oddballs like Syria or North Korea (monarchies).

The point is the USA is a representative democracy AND presidential republic at the same time. Saying it's only a presidential republic doesn't differentiate it from Syria, saying it's only a representative democracy doesn't differentiate it from the UK.

Also democracy isn't intrinsically a rule of a majority. That is a majoritarian democracy; again that's a parameter of democratic government, not a feature of democracy itself.

Ultimately, what is a true democracy depends on one's attitude towards the process orientation vs result orientation. Process orientation might view direct consensual democracy as the true democracy, while result orientation doesn't really care about the form of the meatgrinder through which citizen's voice transform into action as long as it accurately reflects his opinions. I preffer the second, no non-sense approach hailed across political spectrum by "reds" as defined by Putin in a certain thread as well as the "silent majority" of GOP. How much do they succeed is of course a different point, but the ideal is there, unlike in tunnelvisioned minds of anarchists or tea partyists.

The GOP isn't racist, but it is intended by God that they be sexist. Anyway, if it's legitimate sexism, womens' minds have a way of shutting it down.

@Oct +1 for : "You don't tuck into lasagna and say 'my good, this tastes really fruity'"

A strawberry isn't a berry, but you know what is besides a tomato? A bell pepper and a zucchini. Nobody argues the veg creds of peppers and squash! Next time I sauteed up some peppers and zucchini and throw in some chopped tomatoes, I'm gonna serve it to a bunch of botanists and call it fruit salad!

lol :-)