How about we put this on hold...

If you're truly interested in setting up some kind of tournament with special rules please email [email protected] to discuss your idea(s).

-WebDip Admin

"Where the purpose is to metagame" in what sense? What kind of metagaming?

That is what we'll get figured out before it's approved.

Seems pretty clear to me. This has been done before , also.

Of course it's been done before, plenty of people have set up their own metagaming tournaments without approval.

Its been done before via forum where mods did not try and put their paws on it.

I will join if anyone offers to pay me $10 per supply center.

I still don't get it - how would you make a game for metagaming? I think my brain is caught in some kind of paradox where, if everyone in the game is metagaming, then no one is.

The reason approval is needed for this is very simple, there are some levels of cheating that are not tolerated for any reason. These include some levels of metagaming. If someone complained about metagaming in a special game that hadn't been approved by the moderator team we would investigate it and find metagaming. If we didn't know about it, and if not all the members understood what was allowed then it would turn into a mess.

In the case of special games that do not require moderator assistance, then no, pre approval is not needed. In cases where special force pauses, or metagaming "immunity" is expected it would fall under the common sense rule to send us a heads up beforehand.

This is clear as mud.

There are various levels of metagaming...

"Meta-gaming" is a very broad concept. It could mean two or more friends forming a ongoing alliance in any game they play. It could mean conducting diplomacy across multiple games (e.g., "give me Brest in game A or I stab you in game B"). It could mean a whole host of other things ranging from extortion/bribery to holding unfair biases.


I think it's pretty important to firmly nail down what we're talking about here.

Levels of metagaming would include things like: checking players profile history in old games, making alliance in exchange for assistance in another game, entering into an alliance with the understanding you will be paid 10 dollars per supply center, allying with real life friends, and so on. Clearly not all of those should be allowed, which is why we ask that players contact us with what they specifically mean by having a set of "metagaming games".

ninjed by yebellz

If you put up a password and say "this is game where we metagame" it is allowed by the rules.

No Ramsu, it is not, metagaming is not allowed, the same logic goes for multiaccounting. Just making a passworded game saying "this is the game for multi's" does not mean that multi accounting is acceptable. We're willing to allow metagaming in pre approved games, but only if it's clearly stated and agreed upon by all players in the forum beforehand, and if someone sends a notice/request to [email protected] before the game starts.

I'll speak up on behalf of jmo1121109 - Moderating an online game site is *tough* work, especially a site favored by cranky teen-aged socialists (no offense). Furthermore, the mods here are *highly* tolerant of us as a playerbase. I think we owe them the courtesy of going along with simple directives. These guys really do a lot for us.

"Playing with people you know outside of the site is not allowed unless it is a password protected game. -- Therefore, if you wish to play with people you know from outside of the site you may make a password protected game and inform every other member who wants to join that you all know each other outside of the site."
Quote from a mod. This is what I meant to say in the first post.

I think what he means is that it would be a tournament wherein the winner is the one who accumulated the most supply centers across a series of games. Under these rules, trading actions in one game for consideration in another game would become part of each player's strategy. I presume you'd make all the games password-protected, and require that each game of the tournament include only the same seven players, thus eliminating any "unfair" advantage that makes conventional metagaming so distasteful?

Assuming that was the case, I played a similar tournament on dipbounced once. 7 games with every player playing each country, non-anon and you were actively encouraged to make alliances across all 7 games. Makes for interesting play when your best ally may be a power entirely the opposite side of the board.

It can be argued (and I believe it has been by people far more eloquent than myself) that certain of the League games are meta gaming as they are non-anon. For example someone achieving a solo is automatically a target in every other game.

@pj

The Leagues have a specific policy regarding meta-gaming:

"Meta-Gaming and Cross Gaming: Players may not enter into agreements or alliances spanning more than one game, although they may consider different players’ league positions in their decision making within a game."

(from http://tournaments.webdiplomacy.net/The-php-League/thephpleaguerules)

The Tournament Director for the league (Orathaic) is the ultimate authority on that competition.

@pjmansfield99, yes, the leagues have metagaming to a degree in the form of cross game alliances to keep other players from getting a solo. The leagues are also moderator approved and run by a tournament moderator.

These kind of games are not forbidden, they just need approval beforehand, saves both the players involved, and the mod team a lot of time later on if everyone is on the same page when the games start.

Hey Jmo, ninja'd twice by yebellz.... harsh

*sighs*

And thanks for clarifying Jmo & Yebellz, I didn't mean it to come across as antagonistic, I'm actually already aware of the policy - just felt like lobbing in my penny's worth (that's a cent for you Americans...)

Talk about making something out of nothing.

He wants to play three games where he experiments with cross-game deals, etc. Much like this:
http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=692258

Should also note that Fasces moderates an online gaming site and organized this previous version of this same tournament.

this thread is actually more applicable:

http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=667282

How do you know what he wants to do? Have you been meta communicating outside the forum?

I read his OP, which seems to be something nobody else has done.

Also, please in the above thread note figlesquidge's response and how appropriate and respectful it was.

+1

@Lando, as you recently sent your request for a special rules game to the mod email I'm sure you appreciate how it makes these kinds of requests run smoother.

The moderator team is in full agreement that any games with metagaming do need prior approval so the team and the organizer can get everything worked out ahead of time.

@pjmansfield99, not a problem, glad we could help clear that up.

@jmo, I think you should go through this thread, the thread I posted and my own thread about a special rules gunboat. Each have a mod response right away.

Lando, you are obviously welcome to email your concerns to kestas. However we are simply making sure the details of this game will be clear enough to prevent any future issues. Since taylor doesn't have the points to play the game at the moment and is proactively discussing the game details with us I do not see any problem in taking a bit of time to set up a special request game. You shouldn't let whatever issues you have with me or other moderators get in the way of making sure games are fair to all the members involved. It would be inappropriate for us to quickly agree to a game like this without being sure it will not involve unfair play for anyone involved. Like any of our investigations we focus on being careful and fair even if it does take extra time. Thanks for your understanding in this matter.

OK I've set up a game, should be interesting, have 6 players already, just need another 1.
Please add your name below:-
1) NigeeBaby
2) Imonmyownhonestguv
3) MisterNoMates
4) SargMarcher
5) ImnotSargsmum
6) BigeeNaby
7)

and like any of your interactions you focus on being a douche.

I thank you .... can one of your spare User IDs join the game?