A good socialist lib like you ought to be celebrating this...

It's completely unfair that a country with all the beneifts and global inequalities of the US should be allowed to dominate other countries who's citizens have ALSO put forth the best....Really, the idea of passing out medals at all to the capitalist pigs that dominate the Olympics through their oppressive regimes is repulsive.

*Rolls eyes*

Ignoring that troll comment (but thanks for bumping the thread up!)

It should be the Best 24 qualify, not a silly 2-per-nation cap.

21/24 people that qualified finished BELOW her...that makes no sense.

"It's completely unfair that a country with all the beneifts and global inequalities of the US should be allowed to dominate other countries who's citizens have ALSO put forth the best"

It's an Olympic competition to determine the Best in the World, NOT "Everybody Gets a Trophy!" Little League.

"Really, the idea of passing out medals at all to the capitalist pigs that dominate the Olympics through their oppressive regimes is repulsive."

Am I supposed to take you seriously there?
Not that I do at this point anyway, but...seriously?
If so...you know, I'll leave that simmering, and you and Putin can just talk to one another, and that should be fun enough without me pointing out how this is, well, a competition, and as for capitalist pigs...

Oink. Oink.

There's only one good Marx--well, 4, actually--

Groucho, Harpo, Chico, and Zeppo.

Waa waa waa. Who cares? Get a grip on yourself.

Seriously though, there have to be rules, the rules are clear - up to two individuals from each team can qualify. It would be just as pointless if every competitor in the final round was from the same team.

Sucks for Wieber as an individual, but the rules were in place beforehand and the simple explanation is that she didn't perform as well as she needed to when it counted. High-level sports competitions are won or lost by a tenth of a point here or three hundredths of a second there all the time. If you want to win gold, you have to be perfect or near-perfect for the six or seven consecutive performances it takes to finish that path. If you stumble, even if it's extremely uncharacteristic for you, tough luck. It's bogus to claim the system is unfair just because it didn't generate the results you wanted.

The two-per-country rule makes it more of an international competition. Otherwise, a country like Jamaica would never get to field a bobsled team.

+1 for Obi for the Football example. Go Cowboys.

"Otherwise, a country like Jamaica would never get to field a bobsled team. "

This is why I watch the Olympics.

" It would be just as pointless if every competitor in the final round was from the same team."

I disagree--it's an Individual sport, so there would still be meaning, it wouldn't be like Basketball and Team USA vs. Team USA...

If they're the best, they deserve to be honored as the best, or the medals mean nothing.

I mean--if someone who finished lower than her, 21 of those 24 people, win a medal...

BOTH of them, Wieber and the medalist, would feel a bit hollow, it seems--Wieber would be thinking that she should've had a shot at said medal, and the medalist knowing that she may not have earned it in full, that someone WAS better than her, but a technicality gave her the short at the medal over Wieber.

It's not simply an individual sport at the Olympics though. It's individuals competing on behalf of their national team. What most people care about at the end of the day is how many medals USA, UK, China etc win, not how many medals Jordyn Wieber personally wins.

And it's not "a technicality" - it's the rules. End of.

I agree that the IOC should look at amending the rules for next Olympics. It does show a pretty glaring flaw in the rules. Obviously jordyn can't compete in the finals this year.

Stupid, arbitrary rules in the Olympics? I'm shocked, shocked.

What most people care about and the integrity of the sport are two different things.

Granted, this is the Olympics, where there are scandals and French judges being biased and, of course, Olympic gymnastics is like Ice Skating in the Winter Olympics--

Just a lot of subjective screwing over.

Still, I do feel for the kid, it's a bad rule...I just don't get it--

If you're not at a certain caliber, what's the point in rewarding you as if you were simply because other nations have "met their quota" and are not allowed any more finalists, regardless of the fact that they finished better than you?

Is this a competition, or pandering?

*Silence*

OK, yes, it's the Olympics, so it's international pandering masquerading as competition, perhaps, but the point is that really shouldn't be the case here, and a quota is absurd.

Suppose The Top 15 slots were all taken up by American, Russian, and Japanese competitors.

This 2-only rule would mean only 6/15 of the Top 15 would be allowed to qualify for the Finals, while those 16-below would make up most of the field.

How illogical is THAT?

You know, if those nations dominate that sport...THEY DOMINATE THAT SPORT!

Simple as that!

The other nations should just work harder to get better as a team, it's called hard work and actually earning your place, not getting it just because we have to "be fair" and give away some of the slots from more qualified athletes to placate people.

Or shall we change the rules for soccer to mean only two nations from each continental region can qualify.

Sure, Britain probably has a better team than, say, Gabon, but if Italy and Germany both qualify ahead of Britain...why, I suppose we should let every continent be represented equally, and so give Britain's spot away to, say, Zimbabwe, regardless of merit.

Um, that is what happens in soccer...

*blinks*

(Shit, I should have stuck with analogies regarding MY form of football!) ;)

It's also not controversial, and is seen by most world soccer fans as perfectly fair. Otherwise the World Cup, for example, would only ever be contested by teams from Europe and South America.

That is a false analogy. Comparing individuals from one country to all the countries from a continent and cheapens your argument. You were doing better with the NFL analogy. :P

Obviously I've shown how much I understand soccer still--namely, oh-so-very-little--but at least that's a team sport, it makes sense to have balanced divisions conferences within a league...

This is an individual sport--

I don't see why "The Best 24" should mean anything but "The Best 24, period."

She was 4/24, it's illogical for her not to be allowed to move onto The Best 24...

Otherwise--well, it ceases to be The Best 24 and becomes "The Best 24 We Would Allow In To Make Sure More Nations Were Represented And Looked Good Regardless Of Talent."

And that's just too damn wordy. :p

I do think the IOC will look at amending the rules. They didn't let a world champion into the competition and that world champion would likely perform at WC level.

"Otherwise the World Cup, for example, would only ever be contested by teams from Europe and South America."


And they're the teams that deserve it most, are generally the best, and would have the most people rooting for them, so...where's the problem?

If most of the world's soccer talent DOES come from those places, unless there is a strong commitment to conferences and teams, I don't see the problem letting Europe and South America have more teams seeded in...haven't they earned it, if they have better teams that qualify? If the competition is to feature the best of the best...isn't that the way to accomplish that, and to truly reward excellence?

The POINT of the OLYMPIC GAMES is that it is a competition between NATIONS. If you set such a competition up such that the finals in any given discipline could become a contest between athletes from only ONE nation, then the concept of the Olympics as a sporting festival for all nations is lost.

If you don't understand what I'm getting at, you should look into why billiards ceased to be a popular sport.

They have what is called groups. And, I think that would be a legit way to do the Olympics. You would say, the top ^ from each group, A,B,C,D make it to the final 24, or if you want to keep 25 then you do the same and say + the highest scoring individual that isn't in the top 6 of group A,B,C, D

I'm sure they will look at the rules, I just feel a bit sorry for the poor kid--

Training since 10 for that moment, she places 4/24, and if she were in any other country but America, she'd be allowed to move on, it was just because America had 2 ahead of her, that she and 2 other Americans made up 3/4 of the Top 4, that she didn't move on.

I'm sorry, but that's baloney.

In Individual sports especially--Best 24 means Best 24, or those medals don't mean as much...it's not even as if she screwed up, she did WELL--4/24, that's ridiculously well, and usually that'd be a lock to move past qualifying in ANY individual sport.

She's kept out because having 3 Americans somehow deprives some other country of a shot with a gymnast who performed worse...

Sorry, but again--if the Top 15 is all American/Russian/Japanese...

THEY DESERVE those slots.

And I feel badly for anyone getting deprived of what they deserve when they've worked so hard for it, especially a girl who's just 17 and is denied for the most illogical of reasons.

You're just repeating yourself now, obiwanobiwanobiwan.

"The POINT of the OLYMPIC GAMES is that it is a competition between NATIONS. If you set such a competition up such that the finals in any given discipline could become a contest between athletes from only ONE nation, then the concept of the Olympics as a sporting festival for all nations is lost."

Then what do you do if the scenario I proposed actually occurred--

That the USA/Russa/Japan actually DID make up the Top 15?

Will you REALLY boot 9/15, 60% of the top competitors, just because of their country?

There are two parts to your statement that are vital--

"COMPETITION" and "NATIONS," and it ceases to be a true "COMPETITION when that sort of pandering logic is allowed in an individual sport; team sports can get away with it a bit, the geographic conferences and all...

But for an individual sport, it's person vs. person competition--there will still be other countries in, there won't be 24 Americans taking all 24 slots, it's just making sure that the representation in those Finals is proportional to the talent displayed by those countries--

If 3 merit entrance from a single nation by cracking the Top 24, then 3 get in...and if that means #25 doesn't get in, well, they should've finished 24th or higher--full stop.

I suppose I am, but then, I'm not sure what else to say...we seem to be going in circles.