We can make it so that lunatics couldn't spend $6,000 online to purchase guns and ammunition without a single verification of licensing or government contact.

<sigh...> Please learn to read. BLACK MARKET. years ago, my father was threatened by the UAW....a truck driver offered him an Uzi to defend himself...just an average white collar guy...offered to purchase an Uzi.

Also...get real...the jackass spent about 100 rounds...You could buy that undetected easily. YOU are the victim of media hype.

NOT TO MENTION...in the absence of on-line purchases...hell, in the absence of GUNS...he would have built BOMBS.

You fail, Bo-sox

Ban movies! If those people were never watching a movie, the shooting would have never happened!

You and Draug are like little sex pals, krellin.

2nd, that was on an Andy Borowitz status. Just sayin ;)

Amen 2White~! YOU have got the idea! Because it wasn't GUNS that inspired this madman. It was a movie....it was a comic...fuck it was facebook and the need for noteriety....or twitter...it was NOT his fault, right ??? It was EVERYTHING else's fault....not just a broken mind. So let's BAN EVERYTHING that *might* have influenced the nutjob!

Bo-sox....you are too intellectually inept to actually make a relevant comment, aren't you?

What....too many anti-bullying classes in junior high school sap you of the ability to think on your own?

Unfortunately, the adage of 'guns don't kill people - people kill people' is true. The more I read about crime and science, the more I've come to recognize that one's genetics play a far more important role in creating a killer than one's environment does. It's far too early to start profiling the Colorado shooter, especially since we know very little about him except for the fact he was a quiet recluse with an apartment that would rival MI-6. Genetics is an incredibly interesting field, and certain genes that correspond to specific behaviors and characteristics are being discovered on a near daily basis. "Mental illness" is not something that is developed (for the most part), but something an individual has a precondition to developing. The shooter likely had genetic markers all along that could have pegged him as a future psychopath. It's Minority Report in real life.

Good job, 2nd. Great post. Today i was discussing famous people in history...we came up with a list...it was half great leaders and inventors...it was half mass murderers. get it? People sometimes are broken...are evil...call it what you will...and they kill for pleasure...for glory...for whatever...and no law will stop them.

Krellin, is this what happens in other countries?

It may be possible over here to order parts online and to build your own gun, but where would you use it?

Nobody nut criminals would bother. And then i'm not more afraid of them than i am of a junkie in the street with a knife, most gun crimes in this country are committed by drug-gangs against other gang members (with the occasional by-stander)

Most people who like to play paintball and shoot their work colleagues or airsoft...

It happens that we have a pretty lax gun control, you can license pretty much anything that your local police chief will approve.

Would that be a problem in the US? Guns being controlled by your local sheriff??

Yeah...there has never been a mass murderer in ANY other country. It is ONLY in the US... Might I suggest that you read the news. that was pathetic. How many people did that asshole in Norway kill? Set off a bomb and then went on a shooting rampage against kids? Germany has had mas killings....there have been poison bombs in english subways. Give me a fucking break...KILLERS KILL....regardless of laws...and regardless of the weapons available.

pathetic argument.

' Mental illness" is not something that is developed (for the most part), but something an individual has a precondition to developing '

And then gets environmental triggers which develop...

It's pretty simple, if you are pre-disposed to becoming an alcoholic but never drink you're probably going to be fine. Knowledge of your genetic predispositions gives you power over your life. You do not become a slace to your genes.

*a slave...

Orthaic....and....uh....wtf does that mean? So....what? You want governmnet gene screens for mass murders? That would have stopped this? You have made a completely irrelevant comment, that has no basis in any *real* policy.

I'm not saying that a law wouldn't stop them. Science would be much more effective. Take jails and prisons for example. An individual with genetic markings for crime or a mental illness is not going to be "rehabilitated," so spending thousands of dollars to incarcerate criminals will never truly rehabilitate some of them. Jail will rehab some people, true. Others - drug users, murderers, psychopaths - will someday be prevented through genetic identification of certain markers indicative of illegal activity, making jails and prisons a thing of the past.

To go back to my original point, though, laws aren't necessarily useless here. The Colorado shooter purchased most of his weapons and ammunition legally. Who knows if he had the means or knowledge to purchase these weapons illegally? A law might not have prevented it, but if doctors had identified certain genetic characteristics before he was even born, he could have been prevented buying through legal channels, possibly tried to buy an illegal gun, and gotten arrested. At the very least, he'd be on some kind of watch list for potential crime.

My arguement was NOT that mass murders only occur in the US, it was that your pathetic arguement jad no basis in reality.

Krellin, you claim that gun prohibition will be just like drug or alcohol prohibition, and when i demonstrate a counter example you call it pathetic.

I said nothing to imply mass murders don't occur outside of the US. You are either blind or stupid or both.

The truth is someone could commit this type of crime in Ireland, we're about 1/100th of the size of your country so it is much less likely... Well done for ignoring what i said and making up your own story, i aplaid your creativity.

*aplaud, even.

Orthaic....uhhh...pathetic....so your argument is that the US is too populated, and therefore crime is easier to commit, as opposed to in Ireland where you are apparently too sparse a population to have a mass murder? Good god....DUMBEST ARGUMENT EVER....particularly given that some asshole in the sparcely populated Norway of some such unpopulated country killed about a hundred people.

try again....that was pathetic.

But bottom line...you don't deny that it could happen anywhere, and you admit that gun control laws make no difference. i.e. I win.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/23/opinion/frum-guns/index.html

No one is trying to ban guns.

@BlindOrStupid : ' You want governmnet gene screens for mass murders? That would have stopped this? You have made a completely irrelevant comment, that has no basis in any *real* policy.'

I said nothing about policy, is was adding to the science - just because one is predisposed to commit a crime does not excuse one. You can't simply blame your genes. People are not just genetic code - the expressions of that code develop and interact with their environment.

And no, i expect the only genetic scans will be for health insurance companies who will use the information to tailor custom life plans, in order to minimize their costs. Probably make it all into some kind of game to get people addicted, like WoW...

@BlindOrStupid: 'so your argument is that the US is too populated, and therefore crime is easier to commit'

No, i also didn't make that arguement.

Try reading more than one line at a time.

Try to avoid inventing stuff.

I'll try my best to keep things simple for you.

@BlindOrStupid : 'But bottom line...you don't deny that it could happen anywhere, and you admit that gun control laws make no difference. i.e. I win.'

Murders are lower in many countries with stricter gun control.

Gun crime is lower in many countries with stricter gun control.

A mass murder of this kind could happen anywhere.

Now try to keep up, i know you like to make stuff up.

A mass murder of this kind is less likely in countries with stricter gun control.

Base on the frequency of mass murders.

Note corelation does not imply causation - feel free to make up your own causal relationships here.

Have the intellectual capacity to make a direct statement, orathaic. So far, you have made obscure, meaningless, vague statements that when interpreted, you then deny. So...man up...what's your policy? Fuck your stupid gene scans and other bullshit...fuck Ireland...it has no relevance. WHAT IS YOUR BRILLIANT LIBERAL ANSWER?

Also MORE likely in countries with fewer guns....government oppression, loss of individual fredom, higher tax rates, lower standard of living, worse medical health care...

I'll take my gun in hand for home defense and you take your liberal utopia....you know...the one where world leaders come to the US to beg for money and health care, etc....

You are also, of course, counting the number of murderous events, no doubt, as opposed to per capita events.
But I will grant the the US has a high crime rate...which has increased in direct proportion to liberalism, the welfare state, etc. It has NOT increase due to gun laws. Gun laws have been consistent.....CRIME has changed with SOCIAL POLICY....not with gun laws.


eat that, bitch.

My opinion of this is not that guns should be banned, but that they should be harder to obtain! Why do you need what a 100 round clip on an AR if your a civilian? Why do you need swat armor and tear gas? Why the fuck can people buy these things? Kremlin also said he only spent a hundred rounds...he had a LOT more in his car outside. And I'm betting on his person.

@BlindOrStupid

I would like to avoid repeating myself.

Your premise is false.

There exists a counter example.

That is the essence of my proof.

Your claims of better health care do not apply to my example.

There are measures which claim less government oppression occurs here.

Feel free to look it up if you don't believe me.

Your guns do no stop the IRS from forcing you to pay tax or go to prison.

Your claims that this is not tue case are ludicrous to the point of making you appear to be without basic logic or deductive abilities.

Crime, murder rate and gun use are all being compared on a per capita basis.

Look it up if you don't think I'm right, again.

The point which you missed is that of causatuon. I'll let you look for it yourself... You seem to need to prove something here.

@BlindOrStupid: 'But I will grant the the US has a high crime rate...which has increased in direct proportion to liberalism, the welfare state, etc. It has NOT increase due to gun laws. Gun laws have been consistent.....CRIME has changed with SOCIAL POLICY....not with gun laws.'

A direct correlation also occurs between crime and urbanisation. In all countries.

This does not imply causation.

FYI liberal laws are what i would describe tue US gun controls.

So if we were all conservative republicans crime would not exist?

Finally, if anyone is under the impression that i have the perfect solution - it is likely that if this WAS the case, it would have been shared and implemented by now.

I've too big of a mouth to keep it quiet. However i have never claimed that a simple/perfect solution to such a complex social problems exists.

The only gun control measure i suggested here was that local sheriffs be required to apply their own discretion to license any individual who wishes to purchase a firearm. This as a possible US solution (ie something which might be workable in America) because it is fundamentally a cultural issue, and the local sheriff having this kind of power is not the same as the federal government deciding what guns you can have...

Wow, i recall mention of gun deaths (per capita) on another thread recently - Switzerland and Finland had pretty high figures (about 6 deaths per 100,000 head of population)

It turns out that in the finnish case about 84% of those deaths were suicide, and in the Swiss case That figure is 87%.

Meanwhile the US has about 10 deaths per 100,000.

The suicide rates is similar (about 5 suicide per 100,000 people) while the murder rate - compared to Swiss or Finns, is more than 4 times higher - more than 4 American die from gun crimes than even a single Swiss/Finn.

I note, Northern Ireland, in '94 had a gun related murder rate of 5 deaths per 100,000 - about the same as the US suicide rate. And this was during the 'troubles' where paramilitary groups were fighting each other and drug gangs (vigilante justice) And the British army.

That is a total gun-related death rate LOWER than the US... Complicated by the fact that in the US there's a lot of suicides, and in northern Ireland, at the time, there was a tiny fraction of that number of suicides... (see: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate#section_1 )