Interesting question. Though I do think there is inherit beauty in suicide and especially in suicide of a bullied "innocent" kid. I think it's fair media, or whoever praise this beauty, why cover it up after all, also I think it promotes action.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but it is a poetic act, not being able to carry the weight of live anymore, breaking down under the pressure of "evil" in modern day society, you choose to do the last final thing anyone can do on earth...

That said, tragic indeed, does it promote other kids to follow? I doubt it, it might push them a tiny bit further down the line, or over.. but I think it only is a marginal aspect of the decision.

I would disagree with Lopt... Strictly my opinion, mind you. But I think the way the media portrays it and almost glorifies it, does encourage, at least on a subliminal level, other teens who might be leaning in that direction to follow suit. Every teen suicide promoted so heavily on the news ("Tonight on 9 news at 11, local teen commits suicide..." is seen on the days commercials and gets in the "Later int he show and coming up after the break" segments which is sensationalism and promotion promotion) makes one on the edge think "Wow! I could be immortalized! People will remember me forever!" and they think they are then not only ending the pain, but going down in history as a martyr to be remembered forever like Stephen or John the Baptist.

Fair enough, I won't say it will not matter at all, just that, you must be pretty suicidal to make this get you over the edge. Also, I don't know the case nor the way the media presents it, but if it's cheap then I would strongly disagree with how it's brought and vomit over the American (I assume America yea?) news culture..

Everything in American news media is sensationalized. And if it pushes a bordeline teen (teen's have fragile enough psyches) over the edge, then it encouraged their suicide. It's just like putting a bottle of beer in front of a down-on-his-luck recovering alcoholic. The resulting drunk is a different person than if the alcohol wasn't present and the person stayed sober. The alcohol was the catalyst that pushed them over the edge. It doesn't matter that they were on the edge, it was irresponsible to push them over. It doesn't matter if a teen is a borderline suicide, the actions of the media are irresponsible in that the promotion may well push them over.

Wow, what a horribly depressing question...

It's a double edge sword to be sure. You don't want to ignore kids' suicides, as it's clearly indicative of a societal problem that should be fixed. At the same time, I can see how so much visibility around suicide may make it seem like an option for people who are at-risk. As has been said, a stable person isn't going to commit suicide over this, but that doesn't mean it's OK.

I think the reporting needs tobe balanced, not sensationalized. The problem is American news media is a for profit enterprise. Take away the financial motivation and the only stories that will be bought and paid for are the political ones trying to influence thepopulace, not the lurid ones trying to attract viewers so the media outlets can justify charging their advertisers more.

The problem I see is you have kids who think no one is listening to them, that they have no power against their tormenters, that they can't do anything right, and they have no way out. Meanwhile you have these kids who committed suicide having their tories blared over all forms of media, their tormenters ostracized, being portrayed as martyrs to a cause and finally they don;t have to deal with the hit anymore. So for a disturbed kid frankly taking their life solves everything that ails them.

Yeah I'm with abgemacht. I think it's not an option to just say "Nothing to see here, move along, don't want anyone getting ideas!"

But at the same time there is the risk of glorifying suicide as well. It's tricky.

It simply comes down to responsible reporting and keeping people informed of the warning signs of an at risk individual.

I think there also might be something to be said for addressing the issues that are causing teenagers to commit suicides. Kinda the elephant in the room here. We've all avoided saying it, but I'm sure we all know what the underlying problem is here.

also one final thing, in a way it also legitimizes suicide as an answer. There was that town in California I believe where highschoolers kept offing themselves in copy cat cases. Couldn't this reporting just be taking that phenomina national?

And I'm not so sure if Im with draug either. how are you supposed to be balanced when covering something like this? "Billy committed suicide because of bullying; The bullies said he had it coming... Next traffic." It seems merely by reporting it at all you need to uphold these kids as martyrs or risk coming across as cold.

The problem lies with the consumers, people do not defy this sensationalized reporting. We had a case in Holland were a shitty newspaper printed photos and an interview of a boy in a hospital, he was the only survivor of an air crash and his parents died, this was like shortly after. And there was a riot in our media world, most people agreeing this was "not done". But if people don't stand up against it, in fact like to watch it, then what do you expect them to do?

"I think there also might be something to be said for addressing the issues that are causing teenagers to commit suicides. Kinda the elephant in the room here. We've all avoided saying it, but I'm sure we all know what the underlying problem is here. "

???

Ah Lopt is Dutch, makes the comments in my other thread make a bit more sense.

Well, we were specifically talking about suicides as a result of bullying, but suicide in general can have many root causes beyond the fact that the teenage mind works in extremes and is in emotional upheaval more than it is balanced. Chemicals are rushing through the teenage brain (and I'm talking the ones their own bodies produce) that leave them unable to make rational decisions. They may *think* they are being rational, but they aren't any more than krellin is when he is on a drunk or I am when my thyroid and blood sugar are fucked up.

Unfortunately, this is part of the developmental process of a child turning into an adult and it can't be shortened or the effect lessened without agffecting the mental composition of the person the ten will eventually become.

So we have both external and internal issues to deal with and the only ones we can truly deal with are the external ones. Reducing bullying... We can try, although even that becomes an internal issue when we try to alter the nature of the bully. Being more open and receptive as adults to our kids? Well, the kids need to know we are, but being teens, their rebellious nature makes them distrust adults and question authority, the same authority who is saying "come to me and talk to me, I can help". It's like when the suits come to your door and say "We're from the government and we're here to help." There is a certain cynicism in all of us when we here government and help uttered in the same paragraph. Kids/teens have that same cynicism when we say "We have been here a lot longer than you and want to help you by sharing our wisdom."

Yes but what I mean is maybe if we stopped saying things like "kids just make each other's lives an unbearable living hell on a regular basis! It's just part of growing up!" and actually tried to treat the assholes who do stuff like that as people who are actually doing something wrong, we'd see fewer of these suicides.

"Yes but what I mean is maybe if we stopped saying things like "kids just make each other's lives an unbearable living hell on a regular basis! It's just part of growing up!" and actually tried to treat the assholes who do stuff like that as people who are actually doing something wrong, we'd see fewer of these suicides. "

But whos to say who the assholes are. I know from when I was growing up alot of the bullies were themelves bullied, and kids switched from being bullied to bullying themselves semester to semester. The simplistic view that there are bullies and then there are victims is just wrong.

Is every disagreement bullying? Is every fight bullying? Is every child alienated (even due to aggressive behavior on their own part) being bullied?

I understand that, but this isn't an impossible issue to confront. I suppose it isn't simple or easy, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to be done. It certainly doesn't mean we should stop talking about the phenomenon and hope it will go away. I mean, obviously don't single out people as "this kid is a bully, lets punish him arbitrarily". You have to observe behaviours and try and curb them before they get to far, and I don't know what curbing behaviours will entail, but you have to, have to, HAVE TO, let the bullied kids know that there IS someone on their side, someone who won't turn a blind eye.

I think you shouldn't just address the bullying issue, the bullying issue us just a small piece of a much larger puzzle.

Why do kids bully in the first place? Part of it is perhaps normal social interaction, establishing your role in the group or whatever, but I think there are much more factors, like perhaps he doesn't get enough attention, gets handed over wrong values etc. etc.
And how did that happen? Perhaps cause his parents are in the lower social stratosphere, or high up, but work a lot and thus give little attention to there kids, all stereotypical examples, but I think if we want to solve many of our social problems we need a cultural change.

I agree. We shoudl also stop teaching kids that fighting is wrong. It is wrong to start a fight, but that doesn't mean a kid can't stand up for themselves.

A little personal info here which some of you might say "so that';s why Draug is so fucked up"... I was always a bookworm/geek. When I started school I was in an accelerated progrma where they tested us and if we could count to 10 and knew our ABCs before Kindergarten, we got place din the program. They called it the "Sesame Street Kids" program.

Anyhow, I was always teased and picked on by the "normal" kids until two incidents occured. The first was in 6th grade when a was sitting quietly in the room next door to the Christmas Party room (we could call it Christmas back in the 70s) and a kid was picking on me as I was the only one there. I was reading Robinson Crusoe (I remember clearly) when he started in on me and I finally had enough and threw a desk-chair (not a chair, a desk-chair, chair and desk in one) at him and smashed the chalkboard. I got in trouble even though he was the bully. I had to go through anger management via group therapy. But they did teach me to let it out and not let it build up so I took up Tae Kwon Do as a release and all was good.

the second incident was in the beginning of 7th grade when I was jumped getting off the school bus by an older kid (a 9th grader who had bullied me the previous school year on a regular basis but couldn't do so in school anymore as he was now in high school. I may have only had a few months of TKD, but he ended up in the hospital. The school threatened to send me to JD, but enough witnesses said he attacked me that my parents pointed out that I was defending myself against an attacker. I never got bullied again and became friends with a number of my former tormentors who needed help when they reached high school and discovered that they might actually want to graduiate and do something besides flip burgers.

So, now you know why I'm so fucked up, but I think this also demonstrates that teaching our kids to stand up for themselves is not a bad thing.

My dad had a simple rule: "Never start it. But always end it." We all had enough ability to hold our own in fights, and often did. But.

You run into a problem where many kids who are picked on/bullied might not be able to defend themselves for physical issues...I mean, in my day, handicapped kids got it pretty much the worst. And beyond that, other kids get bullied for differences that the school might very well side with the attacker when it metes out justice: sexuality, race, socioeconomic status, that sort of thing. Simply self-defense won't solve it all.

Personally, what I teach my son is pretty simple. Don't be an asshole. Don't tolerate other people being assholes.

Works for me, SD. I was also taught to stand up for those who can't like the physically or mentally handicapped.

Teaching your son not to tolerate other assholes might get him in trouble pretty quickly. Really worth the risk?

Bullies should be ejected from school and sent off to some do-nothing charter school so that decent kids can learn in peace. Bullied kids should not be responsible for "fighting back", and since parents are dullards these days, the parents of the bullies will likely sue the victims.

If we had corporal punishment, we wouldn't have this problem. Hell if teachers were allowed to even lay a hand on kids without fear of being sued, this wouldn't be a problem. But seem to only care about liabilities when it comes to teachers, yet people can run into hospitals with guns no problem.

By not tolerate, I don't mean jump somebody. I mean make sure it's dealt with in some manner.

+1 Putin. Its fine and nice if a bullied person can fight back, but in most cases, bullies would pick victims who cant fight back. Either weaker ones or isolated ones.
You can think of bullying as any other crime, say robbery or instance. As a wise person, I would do my best to protect myself from robbery, like locking my house door when Im leaving. But it may still get robbed, and the you (the police) can't just ignore the robber saying that I should have defended myself better.

sorry for the large number of typos

The behaviours that we call bullying have a different name when you're an adult. It's called harassment. And in the adult world, that isn't allowed. Why are we saying, "Oh it's just a thing that kids do." when in the adult world people have lost their jobs over stuff like this.

And for the record, there's a difference between bullying and making fun of someone. Everyone gets made fun of, but bullying is systematic, consistent and is the expression of a broader power dynamic between people. It's an easier behaviour to isolate than Santa makes it sound.