Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 799 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
nudge (284 D)
07 Oct 11 UTC
Fools Rush In: Game 67704
Is this the highest stakes game played? Pot of 7000 D. I notice three players have voted to draw already, how disappointing. This is one game I would like to see played to the death.

Who is your money on?
5 replies
Open
Wusti (725 D)
07 Oct 11 UTC
Cheating in WebDiplomacy
I have sent a message to the game mods about a no ingame messaging World XI game Im in days ago without reply - and I think its a clear case of either A) metagaming or B) Multi-account because the level of co-op without any supposed comms is unbelievable.

So far nothing at all from the mods - not even an acknowledgement of the mail - what should I do?
2 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
06 Oct 11 UTC
For a little comparative fun, post your mute list here...
I'll start in the first reply.
46 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
07 Oct 11 UTC
Muting
Is there any way of knowing if another player has you muted?
4 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
30 Sep 11 UTC
Lunatic Marxists
Supporters of Castro's disastrous regime in Cuba love to blame the United States for Havana's problems, but this article shows everything wrong in Cuba has one cause, Marxism.
18 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
05 Oct 11 UTC
I lost the game!
And so did all of you. Post your reactions here.
7 replies
Open
hellalt (70 D)
06 Oct 11 UTC
Thinking of leaving the site
Indeed. Too many stupid players here and too many stupid people in general. I guess that's because most of you are American.
89 replies
Open
Kind.of.slow (746 D)
05 Oct 11 UTC
Steve Jobs has passed away
So many things will not be the same now...
24 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
07 Oct 11 UTC
Detroit Tigers
Hells Yes!
12 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
27 Sep 11 UTC
Two Things...
1. This is my last thread.
2. I'll be starting up a WTA Live game next Saturday as my final game. I would love to be able to do the World Map.
46 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
28 Sep 11 UTC
Bullying
While there is no doubt bullying is a major problem, and the suicides caused by it are tragedies, does making the kids who commit suicides tragic heroes encouraging more kidstake that route?
105 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
06 Oct 11 UTC
The International TV Exchange Program
Suggest 1 TV show you think absolutely MUST be seen by others--and espeically those who are maybe in another country and not familiar with the show. The NEXT person who comes along must watch an episode of said show, and suggest one for the next person...and so on and so forth, until all shows ever to air on the Tube are watched by the WebDip community. :)
14 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
03 Oct 11 UTC
Stratagos Challenge: Beat on the rusty old doof
Some of you wanted to beat on me. I think I can kick a single game shortly. Who is in, and what settings are preferred?

I'm going to request 36 hour phases, simply because I expect I'm going to *need* them when I start my new job next week...
62 replies
Open
DXA (152 D)
06 Oct 11 UTC
Ancient Med Stalemate Lines
I don't know if anyone is interested in studying or analyzing things like that, but I am. When I was first starting to play diplomacy (back in, oh, February?), I immersed myself in reading all about the strategies and theories that people had written articles on. Since discovering this site (back in, oh, last week?) I've really come to enjoy the Ancient Med variant.
12 replies
Open
Putin33 (111 D)
06 Oct 11 UTC
Why Brett Favre is awful
By popular demand.
55 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
04 Jul 11 UTC
SoW Summer 2011 Game 1
gameID=62777

Please follow the thread rules below
Page 1 of 6
FirstPreviousNextLast
 
This thread is only for posting by professors for game 1 of the School of War. TA’s are prohibited from posting on this thread. Students are prohibited from posting on this thread until after the game, when they post their EOG’s and may ask questions of their own to other students and such. The community at large may ask questions about the game, which the professors may answer at their discretion. Please don’t ask questions that are too leading. This game is for instructional purposes.
I will bump this thread as needed over time
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
04 Jul 11 UTC
Well, I will wait for all students to join first to give my initial lecture. I will not focus on specific tactics becaus this is the TA´s job. Also, sometimes I could write about what I think will happen next. This is not meant to influence the game or the players, just my view on the game board (that is usually not completelly accurate, as I wil not know the diplomacy part of the game).
I have also recovered some posts from Babak and TheWizard on the last edition of the SoW and they are gentle enough to allow me to repost that.
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
04 Jul 11 UTC
Hey, goldfinger, did you note I'm unavailable for TA duties until Wednesday? I've PM'd the last two that have yet to join game one and asked them to hold off, hope that's okay, I'd hate for whoever draws England to have silence during one of the most critical times of the game...
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
04 Jul 11 UTC
Shoot, I broke the first rule already... Twice!
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
06 Jul 11 UTC
Bump, just to keep in the first page so I can check the game...
sup kiddos!

I'll get started on the opening spiel, but in the meantime, go ahead and start sending in any questions you have.
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
07 Jul 11 UTC


I think as a professor I have the right (or obligation) to give some lecture for the students at start so I will repost what I have written in the last SOW edition and will also repost some works of two great players of this site Babak and TheWizard (and not only on the site as they won the WebDip F2F and Boston Massacre, so read carefully).

First of all I want to give some points for the students to think about and maybe put in practice on this game. I will organize in a list, like some checkpoints for this and for other games. Feel free to ask for further explanations on these ideas or to criticize it or tell it´s just bullshit or that my English is terribly poor, lol.

Number 1 - Write, write and write again. I know this have been said over and over but it´s not bad to say once more. This game is diplomacy, not strategy, nor tactics or luck. So, if you don´t like or are to lazy to write to the other players consider playing only gunboats or even better: go play Risk.
Of course you don´t need to write a letter to all other players on each turn, neither flood the inbox of your allies or the global. But you should keep a communication flow with every other player, even the ones on the other side of the board ( Have you ever heard that proverb: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"). Keep talking with your allies and with the ones that you are attacking and with the ones that are attacking you, maybe at some point they will hear the voice of reason and give you all their centers :-)
Also, most people don´t like to outright lie if it´s not needed, so if you ask a question about what is going on or about his views on the board it´s really likely you will get some interesting information or at least will have more insight about that player reasoning. This lead to the second point.

Number 2 - Always look at the big picture. This is one of the common mistakes for the new players. You as England are soo absorbed crushing Germany that you didn´t see a Jugg coming until you are wipped out (ok, this is a bit of exaggeration but I want to make this point clear). So, always look around all the board trying to understand what is happening and discover what is going to happen next. Of course, you can´t plan for some turns ahead like chess, as diplomacy is dinamic, but not even considering the future is a bright path to tragedy (I am poetic today).
Also, when the game advances to the middle game (around 1904/1905) and if you are
still on the game you should try to find your path on the game (ask yourself: I can win? How I will grab my 18 dots? If you can´t win, it´s time to try findind a safe way to be in a draw or in the worst case a survive, I will not advance on that as this is a bit polemical).

Number 3 - Manage to control your anger, your pride and your guilt. Sometimes you write a lot, plan well, look the big picture and still got screwed. For example: you got Russia and on 1901 England, Germany, Austria and Turkey attack you. Or your ally screw your best plan to take three centers on a year by misordering a support or NMRing. Or your long term ally stabs you for a one center gain. Or ever. Your first reaction is write on spite and tell them how you met their mother and what you did with her or start an endless whining about how you have been cruelly betrayed. Don´t do it!!!
Count to ten and act like a man (or woman). Go back to the first two itens. Send messages to everybody. Look the options you have, make another briliant plan, beg for mercy and offer to be someones puppet in exchange to survive, lie to everyone telling you hate the other and will help him solo just on spite and if the chance come, stab him too. In short, don´t let your feelings harm your play.
Also, don´t let guilt block you to advance on the game. If a good ally give you the chance to stab for the solo, stab for the solo, you are giving him a lesson that is far better then the game result. And this lead to my number 4.

Number 4 - Learn with your mistakes. If you got stabbed try to understand why this happened. Avoid just blaming that idiot, asshole, shithead that stabbed you and try to identify how you could have prevented it, look for the signals that your alliance is falling. Also, after the game look for the points where you could have acted diferently both diplomatically and tactically. Write EOGs (Enf of Game statements, this is mandatory for SoW) and ask the other players to write too, so you can understand what they are thinking and learn what you SHOULD or SHOULDN´T have done. Ask the other players after the game (via PM) about why he did or didn´t do some moves or why you were unable to convince him to do something. If you understand why you lose or didn´t win is more likely you won´t make the same mistakes again.

And Number 5 and most important - Have fun and remember it´s just a game.

Let the battle begins.
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
07 Jul 11 UTC
I will also respost a comment from TheWizard (who has just won Boston Massacre) on

"Good morning, class, ;)

Thanks to Prof. rdrivera for the opening remarks. I wholeheartedly agree with all of them. Starting from the acknowledgements to the last suggestion. And just to hammer home that point, let me just assure you how important his suggestion number 1 is… Even the best strategist is easily outplayed by even just two of his neighbours ganging up on him/her if he doesn’t receive support. So make sure you have allies on the board, and there is no other way to do that than talk!

One thing, I might add to the above suggestions is that you familiarize yourself with the textbook of the course, the diplomatic pouch: http://www.diplom.org/index.py

Just as on example for all the useful things to be found in there, let me point out the example of stalemate positions. Familiarize yourself with them, they do come in handy throughout the game, and especially in mid- and endgame. If you want to win you need to get a unit across the 17-17 stalemate line spanning from StP to MaO, and knowledge of the big and small stalemate lines is useful to stop a powerful alliance advancing and can also be used as a diplomatic means.

Another thing I would like to add to Prof. rdrivera’s comments is that you need to stay flexible. Alliances may and will shift during the course of a game, your best ally may stab you and a former enemy might suddenly become your best friend. This has happened numerous times in many games and the ability to adapt to the dynamics of the board is key to survival and victory. As Prof. rdrivera said, look at the big picture and don’t let emotions take over, rather try to make other players become emotional.

Also, always try to anticipate moves from other players. The better you get at this the better you can react or even act to prevent the terrible thing they were planning to do to you to happen. On a related note, don’t hope for players to make move that would be good for you, plan with the more realistic one. Most likely your vict…allies are capable of assessing their own moves and the effects they might have and will not do the move that is beneficial to you but to themselves. Finally, assume that your opponents deserve the GR of MadMarx and possess the diplomatic finesse of Edi Birsan and take the surprises that some don’t as a welcome gift… not the other way round.

And of course, never NMR and enjoy every game!"

rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
07 Jul 11 UTC
And to close this starting lectures, one from Babak (that doesn´t need any presentation) on the last SoW too. Thanks for Babak and TheWizard to allow me reproduce his brilliant words.

"Last but not least, I look forward to seeing our new students learn, grow, and thrive both in this game and in this community, so my best wishes extend to you all as well.

All of that said, I am very thankful for the wonderful commentary provided already above in this pre-game phase... I can only say that I agree with the knowledge my fellow professors have imparted, and I hope you all take these lessons to heart.

The website that TheWizard provided is an amazing resource... and if I may, I'll point you to this link in particular:

http://www.diplom.org/~diparch/resources/strategy.htm

I used this site and these links extensively in my early days... to learn about how to start strong but also as the game progressed to learn what can be expected. There are a LOT of amazing resources out there, specially in the age of the internet - so go forth and do some independent study once your country has been assigned.

in this pre-game phase, I will add two quick notes to the great points mentioned above.

1 - if you have the time, visit your adversary's past games. Though I no longer do this in my current games (well, mostly because I play anon games) in my earlier games on this site I did this regularly. Sometimes you can glean some great information about how your opponents are inclined to play. Do they tend to make strong opening moves? do they tend to stab allies earlier in the game or much further into the play? are they particularly strong with the country they are assigned in this game? what is their message/game ratio?

Now obviously I would not suggest that you make hard and fast judgements about your opponents, but sometimes you can learn some very useful information from this research that can be helpful to you in your negotiations as well as in your strategic planning with your allies and enemies. If you see a player that has a tendency for picking an early enemy, try to make sure that in your 1901 negotiations you are not THAT unfortunate neighbor. If you notice someone tends to stab in the mid-game (1904-6 timeframe) then you should position yourself to profit from such an eventuality.

What you will note is that the better players will not have these predictable modes of behavior, but with those in the lower to medium level of experience, sometimes these patterns will jump out at you.

I do want to reiterate - it is important that you don't box yourself in by passing a quick judgment and thus making decisions in-game only based on these judgments.

2) the second point I want to make is to reinforce and reiterate the points both other professors made: Diplomacy is KEY in this game. as you start off in 1901, make sure that you reach out to every other player. Often, for newer players, this can be a challenge as you don't know how to approach a player on the other side of the board. One diplomatic strategy I like to use is to acknowledge that reality in my initial messages... to note that he and I may not have much to talk about yet as both of us are trying to figure out how to interact with our neighbors, but that I would like to build a relationship of trust with them in order to build a more lasting alliance.

Try to put yourself in their shoes from the start... what would you want to hear if you were them. how would you like to be treated by the various countries if you were there... acknowledge the issues you two are likely to have and indicate your interest in solving them in a mutually agreeable manner. These early interactions may well define your mid-game relationships.


Anyways... I look forward to engaging with you all during this semester, and once more I extend my thanks to all the staff and to the Dean, and wish the best wishes for our students and TAs.


meanwhile, to our auditing students who are following along in this thread... be sure to ask questions. What are the questions that haunt you at the start of every game. What are the issues you struggle with before you even start a game? are there specific countries and openings that you are curious about? this might be the best time to ask your questions so that the professors can provide you answers before this actual game gets underway.

best of luck all."
uclabb (589 D)
07 Jul 11 UTC
Apologies for posting here as a TA, but I have TA'ed France before, and know about clicking on the little icon on the home screen to get to past PMs, but if the PM is too old to be on the first page of the list, is it lost? I just ask because especially early some of the stuff I sent last time is relevant to this game as well. Thanks!
Honestly, I have no idea how to view old PM's. Drano019 and I emailed each other when I did the School of War in the winter.
Yeah, if the PMs get too old then you're shit outta luck. I'm having that problem organizing invitationals via PM... E-mail might be more advisable.

Still haven't gotten my first writeup, sorry. I'll see if I can get a solid opening post in before I leave for the Carolinas later today.
JesusPetry (258 D)
08 Jul 11 UTC
On the home page, the middle column (Notices) has a small square on the top besides the word "Notices" that lets you see several old PMs if you click on it.
Yeah, they mentioned that, but even still it doesn't save all your old PMs. If you're using the system frequently then you could easily lose week-old messages.
Bad news first -- not going to be able to get a post up in time. My initial post will probably have to come Saturday evening.

Good news next -- because the players need a pause, that shouldn't hurt anyone.

Worst news last -- the players need a pause because basvanopheusden seems to have gone AWOL, and subsequently we need a new TA.
I think I have set up a new TA, so as soon as he has time to talk to Riphen, it will be all right. damian and fulhamish have both expressed interest
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
09 Jul 11 UTC
breaking the rules but, bump
You guys can bump the thread without breaking the rules, its fine
bump


I thought the professors were supposed to comment or something? Apparently not.
I didn't have time for an opening post even with the pause. ;_;

I will, however, comment on the board thus far. Typing now.
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
10 Jul 11 UTC
Well, I did a long initial lecture and don´t have any question to answer, so was waiting the first turn to make some comments.

Well, the openings were pretty standard, with two interesting exceptions. France opened to Bur, but the fact it was without support from Mars means he just did a poor job entering orders or expect a bounce on Bur. Anyway, this will problem not give France a friend on the Germany side and this is always good news for England that is probably asking both France and Germany for support to take Bel.
On the other side Austria keep the Trie fleet at home, a weak opening, specially if you expect Vie to bounce on Gal. On the other side, it could be a brilliant plan from Italy to convoy into Greece. Let´s see what happens on the Fall, but until now the alliances are completelly undefined.
quebeclove (109 D)
11 Jul 11 UTC
bump
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
12 Jul 11 UTC
Well, the autumn move went as expected in most of the cases.
France used the advantage of Bur to support England into Bel and maybe solidify a good relationship. England took it and should be celebrating on some pub. Also, Germany can´t afford an angry Russia, so Swe goes to Russia together with Rum. The tzar should be also celebrating and drinking some vodka, but that fleet on Bls could give him some headache.
Germany need to find some friends...
Italy is doing a pretty standard work, but will it be enough?
Austria, again, weak moves. Turkey has played you quite well asking for a support into Rum. I am wondering who is the TA from Austria and Turkey.
And last but not least: Turkey!! Well, the Sultan should be celebrating on his harem.... Two builds and a fleet on Bls, can´t imagine a better start for Turkey. Now it´s time to decide if he will go for a powerfull and unstopable Jugg or will try to use Austria weakness to support an incursion to the north. Bot ways can work well, and it will be interesting to see his builds.
The other builds should be pretty standard, I guess, but England´s builds could also be unusual.
Wait... where did my spring lecture go? asdf

I'll just post it here, belated as it is, and write up the autumn lecture from here.

===

Hmm... well, not as interesting as my first turn in the school of war. Goldfinger can attest to that.

Let's do a brief analysis by country first.

England: Good, good opening. Russia went south, France stayed out of the Channel, Germany's in Denmark, France and Germany both have a single unit on Belgium. You can't ask for a better setup! I'm of the opinion that the Northern Yorkshire opening for England is the only one worth using, so I don't even have to raise hell about those fancypants "more convoy route" Edinburgh openings or those self-destructive Channel starts! Needless to say, England has his options wide open for the future here, with strong continuations against any one of his neighbors. I won't go into detail on those because it's outside my allowed commentary.

France: Not a bad opening here either. Italy is leaving him alone, England isn't bothering him in the Channel and Germany let him into Burgundy. He's now got a shot at three builds (of varying degrees of anti-German-ness).

What's interesting is how France took Burgundy. There are only a few possibilities: (1) there was an agreed-upon bounce that Germany reneged on; (2) there was an agreed-upon DMZ that France reneged upon; (3) there was no agreement reached concerning Burgundy. If it had been a bounce, the more powerful move would have been to move Marseilles to Burgundy and Paris to Picardy; this takes Germany out of the Belgian equation and leaves France in complete control over the Belgian question, because England needs Belgium more than France does and France has the power to keep him out. And yet the bounce from Paris is not too surprising, because it's such a common move. In either case, it's highly unlikely that Germany would have reneged on an agreement in such a way as to put a doubtless-peeved France next to one of his home centers! So we can probably rule out (1). But if it were a violation of a DMZ, don't you think we would see Marseilles supporting the move, to be sure? In fact, any sort of French renegement on a Burgundy agreement would almost certainly see Marseilles support Paris to Burgundy, bounce or DMZ. So (2) is unlikely. This leaves a somewhat surprising conclusion: that neither France nor Germany made a steadfast agreement regarding Burgundy, and so France simply moved right in. (3) seems highly unlikely... so what are we looking at here? German miscue or France taking advantage of an unresolved sensitive spot? In any case, there's no question that France has an advantage from having gotten into Burgundy. Germany may need to cover Munich, which would pull him away from Belgium. This puts the ball in France's court with regard to Belgium now.

Germany: The above analysis regarding Burgundy plays in reverse. Germany is now at a disadvantage with French occupation of Burgundy no matter which of those situations played themselves out. What will be interesting is that which of those three options before is the correct explanation will force Germany to react in a different way. If Germany screwed up it's unlikely that France will take revenge by going for Munich; the smart move for Germany there regardless is to offer France support into Belgium. Whether or not he intends to follow through is another matter, but anything to misdirect France from Munich is good for Germany now. If France broke a DMZ you get the classic guessing game -- cover Munich or bounce Belgium -- with the usual unfortunate consequences of guessing wrong. The best move is probably to ask England to move to Belgium on the understanding that since Germany has to cover Munich that support can't be offered. It's likely that England's been offered support by France and so Germany will be preaching to the converted, but no matter. That covers Belgium and Munich from French aggression. And if neither side really discussed it, Germany probably needs to assume the worst, but won't, because Germany presumed he would be safe letting France into Burgundy.

Elswhere, he's set up to get concessions for Russia in exchange for not bouncing Sweden -- or just bouncing Sweden anyway. The smart money here is probably to let Russia into Sweden in exchange for help against England and France should they align. Sweden can easily enough be taken in 1902 if it turns out that England is willing to align with Germany against Russia.

Italy: Lepanto. Personally? I'm not a fan of the Lepanto at all. It can work, but the only times I've ever seen it work were when I played Austria and went to unusual lengths to ensure it worked as part of my own alliance scheme. And in all cases it requires an Austria who is going to be aggressive and go for Greece from the start. If Turkey builds two then the Lepanto is doomed to fail.

Then again, I'm not privy to the communications. Russia and Turkey are both neutral, looking at the actual position. Perhaps the Lepanto is the right move here; if Russia and Turkey commit to attacking Austria and Italy isn't skillful enough diplomatically to ensure he has a place at the table after Austria dies, then an attack on Austria would be foolish. And France was never open, so forget that option.

Austria: The Houseboat... don't like that one either. (What do I like, sayeth the peanut gallery? Quiet, you.) If you're going to play an aggressive defense, there's no reason not to do the Hedgehog and move to Venice. Here Austria successfully negotiated a Lepanto, which DID remove the need for the cover against Italy... but in that case why on Earth not open with the Galician Balkan Gambit instead? Now it's a 50/50 chance that Turkey gets two builds without committing to attacking Russia. That's bad for Austria and bad for its apparent ally Italy. The best bet is to try to convince Turkey to combine on Rumania.

Russia: Having just recently written an article on Russian opening strategy (or at least the basis for it) to submit to the Diplomatic Pouch this autumn, I'm well-refreshed on Russian opening theory. For my money, Russia played this right. A critical aspect we can't see is the diplomatic aspect of this. Being in doubt I can say the bounces in Black Sea and Galicia were smart... but if Russia requested them, shame! Russia should be checking for DMZs first before agreeing to bounces. If Austria wants a DMZ in Galicia, he usually means it, which means that Russia can usually get in there and get the jump. With Turkey it's more difficult to tell, but I tend to find that a Turk intending to attack Russia (foolishly) tries to remain coy about the Black Sea. This of course only has the effect of ensuring Russia moves there! Turkey asking for a DMZ in Black Sea is uncommon and either means he's serious or he's setting up for an attack... which means you have nothing to lose from moving to Black Sea.

That said, we can see from Austrian and Turkish orders elsewhere that those bounces were arranged. Austria played a defensive opening, the Houseboat, which means Austria wanted the bounce. And again, a Turk intent on attacking Russia doesn't want the bounce in Black Sea. The lack of move to Armenia at least left Turkey's options open, which meant Turkey intended to play a neutral S01 -- which means a bounce. So Russia played this right, definitely. Now Russia can only be denied Rumania if Austria and Turkey combine to make it so, which is fairly unlikely (see Turkey).

As for the north, it's still far too uncertain to tell. Russia has potential to work with either England or Germany against the other... or to get ripped apart and lucky if EG decide to stop at St. Petersburg. Still too early to know what happens here. My gut says a bounce, even though it's probably not the best move here.

Turkey: Boring neutral opening, but unlike the Lepanto or Houseboat, this is a boring neutral opening I can get behind. Especially given that Austria didn't drop the fleet to Albania, Turkey has a lot of good options. Working with Germany and Austria could leave Russia buildless and Turkey with a decisive move into the Black Sea which can be followed with an army build and move to Armenia. Or, Turkey can grab Greece -- whether with Austrian foreknowledge or not is debatable. If done with Austrian foreknowledge, then he's looking pretty good; another try for the Black Sea gives him the Sea, with no way for Russia to resist that without risking the outright loss of Rumania, as well as two builds to block a Lepanto. If he deceives Austria he can get two builds and set up for Serbia. Turkey's position isn't very inspiring, but it's damn effective, and that's what matters in this game.

Now, a look at the twelve neutral centers: who's likely to occupy them and what does it mean?

First, a note, since I use some stock phrases. "No chance of stopping it" means that the power has a move that guarantees the center falls to it and that there is an almost absolute certainty that the power will make that move. "Basically no chance of stopping it" means that if the power wants, it can keep the center irrespective of others' moves, but that if the power tries to keep the center and do something else that it could lose the center if it's careless.

Portugal: French. No chance of stopping it.
Spain: See above.
What does that mean? That France isn't getting pounded like a cheap hooker in a back alley. Aside from that, there's nothing to read here. Normally the fleet could cause a little question by going to Spain (sc) and scaring Italy, but as it stands it will make the move to Portugal and spend S02 undoing the move as part of a move on Italy or England. The army in Spain is well-placed; it can go to Gascony in S02 and help defend Burgundy if the Germans are still angry by then over the move.

Norway: English. No chance of stopping it.
What does that mean? That England isn't being similarly screwed. The question here is of course how Norway is taken. The army is going to be extremely anti-Russian because now Norwegian Sea has nothing useful to do but move to Barents Sea. The fleet is the only really neutral way to capture it.

Tunisia: Italian. No chance of stopping it.
What does that mean? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. God, Italy is so boring when it comes to neutral centers... but I digress. The obvious question to be asked is how Tunisia is taken. My money's on a convoy to Tunisia, which is of course the classic Lepanto set up. That's not necessarily anti-Turkish, as there are variations that target Austria and France... but it will almost certainly trigger a reaction from Turkey. And of course taking it with a fleet will just make everyone wonder what the Italian is thinking. If accompanied with Apu -> Ven -> Pie/Tyl, things get interesting, as now Italy is setting itself up to cause some real mischief... if accompanied with holds we're looking at a standard-issue wait-and-see approach as Italy. Some like it, others loath it. I'm in the latter group, but I'll wait to see it play out before I critique it.

Bulgaria: Turkish. Basically no chance of stopping it.
What does that mean? See above answer, pretty much. The only way to deny Turkey Bulgaria without compromising the Russian position pretty badly requires some rather gratuitous moves by Turkey... moves we won't see. Now, it's also possible that Austria moves Serbia to Bulgaria to isolate the Turkish army in Greece. Then it would remain unowned. Of course, Turkey gets Greece, which is arguably better (Bulgaria is almost assured in 1902, but Greece might be lost depending on Austria's play from there).

Serbia: Austrian. Basically no chance of stopping it.
What does that mean? Literally the exact same scenario as Turkey/Bulgaria. Austria can only lose Serbia by going for Greece while Turkey takes Serbia and Bulgaria. If we see this, the situation's better for Austria than the reverse is for Turkey, because the fleet in Trieste can move to Albania and support hold Greece while Austria sets up for a move on Serbia in 1902. If that setup happens Austria is definitely abandoning the north to Russia, as reclaiming Serbia in 1902 will require the use of all four Austrian units to assure Greece doesn't fall either... the price we pay for an opening that tries to accomplish too much with too little.

Denmark: German. Basically no chance of stopping it.
What does that mean? That everything is pretty standard here too. The only way Germany loses Denmark is with that Russian-English shuffle move (Den -> Swe while GoB -> BAL and England convoys Yrk -> Den). Again, pretty standard stuff. Nothing to say here, really.

Holland: German. Basically no chance of stopping it.
What does that mean? The only way Germany can be denied Holland is if England sacrifices a build opportunity in Belgium to France in exchange for spiting a German who may well be willing to use A Ruh to support England into Belgium instead of supporting himself to Holland to block the spite-block. Needless to say I find that block unlikely.

Sweden: Russian. Definitely able to be stopped.
What does that mean? The same thing it always means. Germany can choose to bounce Russia or not, and Russia can't really do anything but try for it and hope for the best. It can go to Baltic Sea, letting Germany have Sweden, but that's probably not going to happen. As for whether Germany should bounce or not? I would demand a build of A Stp/F Stp (nc) for it, but I would give Russia the center.

Rumania: Russia. Unlikely but able to be stopped.
What does that mean? Russia can only be stopped from Rumania by an Austrian-Turkish alliance. Such an alliance would both be passing on a second build in Greece simply to deny Russia a build. Ehh... could happen. It seems like it's in both Austria's and Turkey's interests not to deny Russia the center because Austria's relative weakness in the Balkans will surely tempt Turkey to war. The main question: How do you take it, with an army or fleet? An army signals an attack on Austria, a fleet on Turkey. Either one is pretty committal. How to take this is up to the diplomatic framework, and I have no comment here because it seems Russia could succeed in either an RA or RT.

Greece: Can't tell.
What does this mean? Austria's non-move to Albania leaves Greece up for grabs. If Austria really wants to make a buddy he can support Italy into Greece! That would be an interesting setup, but it's probably better just to run a standard Lepanto and let Austria sort out Greece with Turkey. Both Turkey and Austria could end up with Greece and both may well be passing on their more certain builds above for it. Greece might be a sore point for Austrian-Turkish relations.

Belgium: Can't tell.
What does this mean? It's really up for grabs. I would expect Germany to fall back to Munich and withdraw himself from consideration for Belgium. That leaves France with the primary initiative regarding Belgium, because as noted before, he needs three builds less than England needs two, and so England is in the position of need with France here. If Germany dares to call France's bluff it can certainly be a factor as well.

So what to expect from here? Honestly, it's too early to have a clear picture. I could be wrong about all the subjective stuff in this evaluation. We'll see how A01 plays out; some of the countries will have to commit themselves, others may choose to do so anyway, and no matter what, it'll be an interesting turn! Tune in next time to find out. Eden signing off.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
13 Jul 11 UTC
Bump
What is Hedgehog, precious? (also Eden, could you explain Northern Yorkshire, Lepanto, Houseboat, Galician Balkan Gambit, and while you're at it the Key Lepanto as well - just because I love the Key )
"What is Hedgehog"

The Hedgehog is a defensive opening for Austria. It was devised by Richard Sharp in 1975. The rationale is easy enough: You are uncertain whether or not Italy and Russia are allied with you or with each other against you, and you're acutely aware that their standard anti-Austrian openings put you in a serious bind, with armies in Venice, Tyrolia, and Galicia just in time for Autumn 1901. Your goal is to neutralize this as much as possible.

The original Hedgehog moves are:
Army Vienna -> Galicia
Army Budapest -> Rumania
Fleet Trieste -> Venice

The goal was to bounce Russia in Galicia and throw a serious wrench in Italy's plans. If Italy runs the more popular anti-Austrian opening -- the Obriani Attack, which sends armies to Tyrolia and Venice -- then the fleet in Trieste stands off the army Rome in Venice, isolating the Italian armies in Rome and Tyrolia. Tyrolia can at best take a wild chance shot at Vienna or Trieste, and Rome is useless. And if Italy tried the Austrian Attack (armies to Trieste and Venice), he's done. Everything stands except the fleet in Tunisia. And in all cases the Russian's only really serious move against Austria -- to Galicia -- got bounced, and if he decided not to play A Mos -> Ukr, he's dependent on Turkey and Germany to build at all, thanks to A Bud -> Rum.

However, the original Hedgehog was soon abandoned due to the fact that it was overly anti-Russian. First, if Russia did play A Mos -> Ukr and bounce Galicia, now *Austria* is dependent on Turkey to build at all, because Russia can force Rumania and Turkey can move Bulgaria to Serbia and deny Austria any of the Balkan centers. Second, if Russia was not hostile in the first place, Austria has basically ruined any serious prospects for alliance. Turkey is guaranteed to get Greece in A01 unless Italy is a masochist, and that sets Turkey up to get Serbia in S02. Ironically, the standard Hedgehog's aim -- defending from an RI attack -- sets the stage for a beast just as dangerous to Austria: the Juggernaut.

Enter the Southern Hedgehog. This setup decides not to pick a fight over Rumania in exchange for a guaranteed build and the all-important influence over Greece. The moves:

Army Vienna -> Galicia
Army Budapest -> Serbia
Fleet Trieste -> Venice

The same rigorous defense is played against Russia and Italy, but by moving to Serbia, Austria doesn't anger Russia as much, and can move to Bulgaria to cut off Turkey's armies just like the fleet in Trieste bisected the Italian military: by isolating the army in Greece, Austria severely hinders Turkey's mobilization in the Balkans.

The moves to Galicia and Venice are often announced beforehand. Austria generally WANTS to standoff in Galicia, so the army remains in Vienna and is able to provide defense if Italy attacked. And Venice is just a dead-end if the fleet gets there, not to mention an Italian center, so the fleet needs to remain in Trieste. Russia won't be offended by the move to Galicia, as the province is so often the site of a standoff that it's practically standard-issue to see it anyway. Italy *generally* isn't offended by the suggestion of a move to Venice, either. Not unless Italy's attacking Austria, anyway! An all-out attack against France probably warrants the standoff: it keeps the army in Rome so that Italy can convoy it to Tunisia via Tyrrhenian Sea, and it does prevent Italy from running the Alpine Chicken (where the armies move Rom -> Ven -> Pie, then Pie -> Tyl and Ven -> Tri in A01). And against Turkey you're seeing a Lepanto: this time, Italy should move Rom -> Ven -> Apu, standing off in Venice so Austria can safely move to Albania while Italy continues the convoy to Tunisia from Apulia. And if Italy is moving against Austria, well... damn good thing you used the Hedgehog!

The weakness of the Hedgehog, though, is its surrender of the Balkans, at least temporarily. It should not be played unless Austria has a strong suspicion that Italy is after him. If Austria isn't certain of it then there's no reason to surrender the second build from Greece. Austria can still recover momentum in the Balkans if Italy didn't attack, which makes the Southern Hedgehog the best opening for gunboat. Italy rarely attacks Austria in gunboat, and if Serbia moves to Bulgaria in A01 with Trieste moving to Albania, Austria can take Greece in S02 and possibly Bulgaria in A02, suffocating the Turkish offensive with two units while using the remaining units to stave off and eventually defeat Russia. And again, if Italy did move on Austria, good thing you played the Hedgehog!

But in a full press game it's an opening that should be used in extenuating circumstances. Italy should be subverted through diplomacy if at all possible.

", precious?"

Taken. ;)

"also Eden, could you explain Northern Yorkshire"

That's simply the English Northern Opening (fleets to NWS/NTH) with the army to Yorkshire instead of Edinburgh. The defensive advantage compared to Edinburgh is obvious: If Russia and France are hostile (France moves to the Channel, Russia moves A Mos -> Stp), then A Yrk can cover London while England supports itself to Norway. The Northern Yorkshire is the only opening that lets England guarantee itself a build in 1901 against the worst possible opposition.

But it gets better. It also leaves England with the best shot at two builds. A simple look at the geography would indicate that Norway is better captured by a fleet, Belgium with an army, instead of vice versa. Only three openings can do that -- the Wales Southern Opening and the Northern Opening (Yorkshire or Edinburgh). The Wales Southern Opening can leave you buildless easily (not to mention up shit creek if France opens to the Channel), and Yorkshire and Edinburgh are the same here (the convoy goes through North Sea, not Norwegian Sea). Yorkshire has the defensive advantage. So in going for one build Northern Yorkshire is alone the only way, and for two it's the best -- all in all, the best opening.

"Lepanto"

Probably the most easily recognized Diplomacy opening. Italy moves an army to Apulia and the fleet to Ionian Sea, then convoys the army to Ionian Sea, keeping the fleet in Ionian Sea. Italy builds a fleet in Naples, then moves F Nap -> ION and F ION -> EMS. In the fall, the army in Tunisia is convoyed to Syria or, if Italy's feeling lucky, Smyrna. The advantage is that if it works, Italy can really implode the Turkish position, especially with pressure from Russia and/or Austria. The disadvantages, though, are many: it relies on an Austrian not deciding to stab Italy (as only one army is left to defend three home centers!), a Frenchman not stabbing by sending fleets into the Mediterranean, and a Turk not seeing the Lepanto coming (building F Smy with the almost-certain gain of Bulgaria allows Turkey to block the move to EMS). Even then, Italy is not likely to see a fifth center until 1903 and Turkey can easily last until 1905. Getting the patience out of Austria and France necessary to pull this off is hard to do. It also requires commitment from the opening move: the convoy via Ionian Sea is a MUST to execute the Lepanto, which means the army has to be in Naples or Apulia and the fleet has to be in Ionian Sea on the first turn.

Now, there are a couple of important deviations. The first is the stab Austria variant: the Ionian fleet moves to Adriatic Sea instead of Eastern Mediterranean Sea, and the army gets convoyed to Albania instead of Syria (or, again, if feeling lucky, Trieste instead of Smyrna). This is similarly risky because France can still run into the Mediterranean, but Turkey is far less effectively placed to attack you than Austria, so it's safer. The downside is that you still have insufficient forces to really do anything and will need a multilateral invasion to be successful. This should be used when you start with the Lepanto but realize before the S02 committing moves that it's a bad idea to continue.

There's a less used French variation, where you simply move Ven -> Pie, ION -> Tun -> NAf, Nap -> TYS, followed by fleet moves into GoL and WMS. The advantage is that France almost never sees this coming... the disadvantage is that you are still leaving yourself wide open to Austria and this time you're also vulnerable to Turkey (though again Turkey is going to have a little trouble conducting effective reprisals). You're also basically incapable of getting anywhere quickly unless you, again, are part of a multilateral invasion.

Essentially, the Lepanto in its different variations works IF Italy has help from someone else. It's not a way for Italy to go solo and profit.

"Houseboat"

The Houseboat is a weaker Hedgehog. It employs the logic of the Hedgehog without the most critical move: Venice to Trieste. It does stop the Austrian Attack but does nothing against the more popular Obriani. The hold in Trieste is clearly meant to defend from Italy, but there's no reason not to move to Venice from there.

"Galician Balkan Gambit"

This is the ideal Austrian opening. It requires Italy to be pro-Austrian, and is obviously very weak against a hostile Italy (though not *too* weak; read on), but if Italy doesn't attack then Austria has the two builds it needs to take on Russia and Turkey. The move to Galicia is generally intended as a bounce, but if Austria guesses right on trusting Italy it might be advisable to try and take it anyway. Warsaw can be swiped, and Rumania can be stood off or even taken with Serbia support, though that does require Turkey not to try for Greece. And if you REALLY want a nice move, Galicia can move to Ukraine in A01 and give Russia ten different kinds of hell for 1902. It forgoes the third build, but the third build is unlikely anyway and better to be in Ukraine than Galicia.

The disadvantage is clear: If Italy moves to Trieste and Venice, you are in deep shit. Italy is guaranteed a second build, you're not getting more than one and if Russia and/or Turkey smell blood in the water, it could be a quick out. Still, you at least keep Russia from joining in (right away) with the move to Galicia. And, if you standoff Galicia, you're in business even if Italy opens hostilely, should he decide to use the Obriani: Vie S Alb -> Gre covers Trieste and Vienna, and you can still get a build out of Serbia. You might still be in trouble, but at least Italy might be dissuaded from further attacking.

"and while you're at it the Key Lepanto as well - just because I love the Key"

So I noticed. The Key is a Lepanto where Venice moves to Trieste, then to Serbia with support from Austria, while Austria takes Greece and (in some variations) Rumania. Italy typically builds two fleets and uses its army in Serbia as an extension of Austria's forces, while his other units carry out the standard Lepanto invasion. The chief advantage is surprise. The chief disadvantage is that if Italy crosses Austria, Austria is dead. Worse, Italy doesn't even have to do the typical Rom > Ven > Tri stab; he can follow the Key and get Turkey to bounce Serbia, keeping Trieste "without stabbing" Austria. Either double cross is death for Austria. If it works, though, you have everybody stunned, and you can probably take over the East easily with Italian help. It's just incredibly risky, arguably the riskiest alliance play in the game.
haha the "precious" was a spin off of LOTR "What's taters, precious?"
Riphen (198 D)
15 Jul 11 UTC
Bump for builds!(I think I am allowed to bump)

Page 1 of 6
FirstPreviousNextLast
 

165 replies
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
05 Oct 11 UTC
What are your thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street movement?
Also, I wonder what you all think of this
http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/
that the NYC general assembly passed
95 replies
Open
Agent K (0 DX)
05 Oct 11 UTC
Face to Face
So, i was perusing the ghost ranking site and stumbled upon the Boston face to face tourney this past summer.
9 replies
Open
agusnoceto (626 D)
06 Oct 11 UTC
how do i contact an admin?
We have a game which we all agreed to pause because 1 player needed. Now that he's back everyone but another player clicked unpause.
Is there any way to conctact an admin so he can unpause the game?
3 replies
Open
Ges (292 D)
05 Oct 11 UTC
What are some of your favorite (mainly little-known, short-run) comics series?
My games are going south, so I have time for Forum jollies. I've had really good luck here soliciting ideas for TV shows to Netflix, so I'm trying to compile a list of interesting, oddball comic book titles that you've come across.
16 replies
Open
Octavious (2701 D)
05 Oct 11 UTC
A party political broadcast from the Conservative Party
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ucnXwKAzAo0

It's certainly different... but is it right?
39 replies
Open
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
03 Oct 11 UTC
New non-anon Game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=69203#gamePanel

non-anon, 36hrs, 150 D, WTA
Looking for people I haven't played against, or old faces. All are welcome.
20 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
02 Oct 11 UTC
A Question, Doctor Who--And Sci-Fin In General--Fans:
The Terminator went back in time to kill Sarah and then John Connor.
The Borg went back in time to stop First Contact and assimilate Earth.
The Omega 13, for God's sake, allowed a do-over that let Tim Allen win.
Why don't Doctor Who bad guys just travel back in time and kill him as a baby? (Also, wtf happened in this season finale...I'm STILL confused!) :p
55 replies
Open
Cockney (0 DX)
05 Oct 11 UTC
1 more needed for big game
2 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
25 Sep 11 UTC
The Roots of Anti-Americanism
Is Anti-Americanism any different from Anglophobia or Francophobia that came befeore? Is is different from the fear of Russia or China?

Disclaimer, if you do not like this thread you can make it disappear instantly from your forum page view by muting the author of the thread.
108 replies
Open
basvanopheusden (2176 D)
25 Sep 11 UTC
New game: Full press WTA, 48 hours/phase
This game will be standard, but with one rule: each player can only send two messages/phase to each other player. Motivation inside.
55 replies
Open
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
05 Oct 11 UTC
leave of absence
i will be leaving the site for a few weeks due to it being "crunch-time" at my place of work
I'll try to finish up any games I have left and avoid CDs

I know you all will miss me greatly, but try to soldier on without me
1 reply
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
05 Oct 11 UTC
Napping Perry, Mud People, Burning Puppies, and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqqLn65gTaU
Usually not a big SNL fan, just doesn't appeal to me...but they just NAILED the GOP Presidential race!
(And for all you Ron Paul supporters out there...come on, THAT'S funny...and if Herman Cain gave a speech like tHAT, I'd vote for him...damn inspiring!) :p
4 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
14 Sep 11 UTC
Lord of the Rings Diplomacy?
Any other fans of the series interested in having a middle earth map for diplomacy? it is not on the to do list or planned at all, and i am just polling for thoughts on the topic. thoughts and ideas would be great, and if enough people want it then we can tell the mods and get it made, maybe.
171 replies
Open
franzjosefi (1291 D)
04 Oct 11 UTC
How does one quit a game?
I had a game start without me and I would like to quit the game. I have been trying for days but cannot figure out how
16 replies
Open
Page 799 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
Back to top