bump

Hey, MM

It seems as though the player has a sitter, no?

ab, the player lined up a sitter just in case, but strongly prefers to play himself. One person is currently not talking to anyone, is logging in to finalize orders but not likely even paying attention enough to notice we all would like a pause, and it's not really fair if you can't even get a person's attention enough for them to consider pausing and/or know anyone has requested one. Thanks for your help.

I hope the mods don't forcibly pause this. It sets a very bad precedent.

I decided to pause the game because it seemed clear that the player was not paying attention to the game and it was not unreasonable to assume he simply missed the request. However, as I said in Global, if he wishes to not pause, he can contact me and I'll unpause the game. I don't believe an precedent has been set by this.

i assume that the mods (who are responsible for keeping this site 'fun' with the help of players) will act in this situation.

but a mod enforced pause will not go beyond the stated date of monday because they will force the unpause aswell. (i know a lot of people worry about pauses ruining their game because a pause which lasts much longer than they say it will results in many people forgetting the game and no continuation... however given the 'easter' factor, and the majority of players in the game being happy with the pause, and the mod forced unpause on monday whether the player is back or not... i see this as a non-issue.

Abge +1

Thanks, abgemacht.

@abge - "it seemed clear that the player was not paying attention to the game"; on this basis could you change the result of 95% of my games please, there were definately players not paying attention in them!

Players don't have to pay attention; they can ignore pause requests rand pretend they never saw them rather than getting into an arguement about 'is it fair to pause etc...' And to the people who say, it's Easter blah, blah, blah, all I can say is...Did Easter come as a surprise in your part of the world? Do you governments only advise you when Easter is the week before? Are calenders banned from sale until mid-April? If you didn't want to play over easter join some longer phase games or delaying joining them until you have celebrated Jesus's resurrection

I find it strange that people are upset about this pause. I believe it is a very clear-cut case, and that abgemacht was very much in his right to force-pause the game.

Mind you, 6 out of 7 players voted for the pause, and actively discussed it on the global chat. The 7th player did not comment at all, not even when the issue of contacting the mods was raised. If he or she would have had problems with a pause, there was ample time to let us know. The game situation has nothing to do with it.

After all, the pause button is not a diplomatic tool.

@basvanopheusden - i'm not upset by the mods decision, after all it's not my game; my point is that (a) people are discussing an ongoing game and the mod taking action on people discussing an ongoing game shouldn't be condoned IMHO (b) the pause button is there if all players agree to it - for all we know the 7th player has seen the request and choose to ignore it - what is he supposed to do now, tell the mod to unpause and have the players set against him for his attitude to pausing which should have nothing to do with the game (c) the player who is going away got a baby-sitter, there really was no reason to pause the game IHMO; If the mods did that to me I'd be agreived.

In the end of it all, it's not the end of the world whatever is done (perhaps the end of Europe 1905, but).

But in principal, I agree that intervention by a mod because a player appears to be unresponsive is a very slippery slope. I challenge the door is now open a crack for any player (not just our #1 player) to request intervention by the mods if it "(seems) clear that (this) player was not paying attention to the game and it was not unreasonable to assume he simply missed the request"

WOW. What a slippery slope. How many times do players ignore clear requests, even for pauses? If agreement to pause should be assumed unless clearly rejected, we need to change from a "PAUSE" button to a "REJECT PAUSE" button.

I love our mods...love this site...this decision, right or wrong, is a flea...but with all due respect to Ab and MM, I think if this request had come from a player with 50 , we would all have seen more clearly that this should not have been a mod intervention.
(Do I want to be a mod? Can I make decisions everyone will agree with? Am I perfect, even in my own cloudy mind? Hell no. Still Ab +1 for being a great mod)

I agree with maniac. This game should never have been forced pause by Abgemacht. I believe he overstepped his authority and should go back and correct this error immediately and explain to the others he felt obligated to do it. Whether he realizes it or not, he has set a precedent that says "you are obligated to disagree verbally to the pause or the others can get a mod to force it" and this is a very bad precedent to set because pauses just became "majority rules" instead of "unanimous vote".

Abgemacht, what you did was wrong. Take steps now to correct it. You have just let 6 playersvuse an outside force to get their way - the very definition of metagaming.

Bumping to get Abgemacht 's response or another mods input.

P.S. I won't be letting this one just go. We need a better answer on this. It's reeks of favoritism way too much.

Hey Draugnar why don't you learn to fuck off an mind your own business.

Abgemacht is "keeping the site fun."

What the fuck is wrong with you that you think you are the authority on everything?

@Draug

What exactly do you want me to respond to? I have talked to the admins about similar situations to this in the past, so I know for a fact that I have set no precedents.

And, if you are implying that I would have acted differently had MM not been in this game, you could not be more wrong. Frankly, it is down-right insulting that you would accuse me of favoritism.

However, I agree that our policies on pauses are a bit ambiguous, so this weekend I plan on chatting with the mods about making some firmer-set rules.

@Lando - I suggest you take your own advice. Mod decisions of this nature have the potential to affect everyone.

K well fuck off and let them do it then.

Nobody asked you to represent the masses. And I'd argue you're about the last person anyone would want representing them.

There is a reason the mods were chosen for their roles. They have demonstrated qualities of good judgment.

So let them do their job and stop trying to play hero you ass.

@abge - Indy made the same suggestion. And I happen to agree if a newborn had made this request, it would not have gotten paused. I am tempted to put this to the test sometime. If pauses are now majority rules, I think I am no longer interested in playing here.

K great cya

@Lando - I would ask you to be a bit more civil with you tongue. I haven't cursed you once here and yet every post from you has made the same suggestion. If you want me to listen to you, be more civil about it.

@Draug

Pauses are not majority rule. This was a specific case of a single player being particularly unresponsive (in game, to the players PMs, and to the mods). This is not indicative of changes in policy.

As always, I encourage discussions about site policies, as this is a community-driven site, but I will not accept criticism of my character.

" If pauses are now majority rules, I think I am no longer interested in playing here."

Oh pretty please make pauses majority rules, so we can all witness Fag-Naur reverse himself again.

@abgie - Your character is vile and repugnant. lol.

Where is the lecturing about proper channels?

Oh i get it, its marx not me

@Abgemacht - the silent treatment is a legitimate tactic. And, as has been pointed out already, his requesting you to rverse the pause would now result in his being attacked in the game because it was clear he asked you to undo it. I know you won't admit it but you have altered the course of this game. I apologize for seconding the suggestion that the requesst coming from MM was why you did it, but I would have thought this through further and never have granted that forced pause if I had been in your shoes. Now I feel a legitimate tactic (the silent treatment) has just been taken away.

I think an n-1 out of n pause rule (where n is the number of players remaining and n > 2) is a good idea. This would cover the situation where someone disappears (Internet goes down, etc) and the other players want to pause to prevent him from NMRing. This would be quite useful in some of the longer phase games near the end of the game. (It lets the other players be gentlemen and help out the unfortunate player).

I disagree. I say mods should only force pauses where the pause is an agreed to rule like the leagues or where they are investigating a possible malfeasance. The only potential exception to that is if a player has NMRed and hasn't been on the site in so long so that a replacement can be found before the CD occurs. Anything else is excessive mod interference.

And seeing as the player had a sitter lined up, this was clearly excessive intervention. This game should have continued.

That would be interesting Joey, but I'd go a step further and say that the n-1 players can only pause the game if the 1 player who has not voted for the pause has also not entered and saved any moves AND the pause only goes into effect when there is 10 minutes till the turn is over. To set it up so the one person who didn't vote for it can also unpause the game unilaterally (within 24/48 hours or something) would be a nice addition. These addendums to you rule would make it so that the only use of it is a gentlemen's pause