(Why do I have the feeling I'm hearing 'bb' all over again? I guess we'll wait & see...)

Charlesf, the players here are well versed in a lot of alliances and moves. Lepantos and juggernauts (R/T alliances) are sniffed out before the end of 1901, Key lepantos are sniffed out as well.
In games where there isn't a bunch of newbies, they usually end in draws (mostly 3-way draws), because players aren't afraid to switch alliances and don't like being solo'ed on.
The communication is usually pretty high, and there isn't any 'listening into' conversations like you can in f2f dip.

And, as gramilaj said, there are often 'nmr's (no move registered) or 'cd's (civil disorder... no moves registered for 2 consecutive years without even logging into the game), especially in lower level games.

Honestly, there is no harm in joining a game. If you run out of points, you'll get 100 put back in your account, so go out there, find a game with vets, and try it out. Or, make a game, put in 5 day turns (if that is what you are used to), publish the game here, and, hell, I'll join in :)

welcome charlesf!

The gameplay and competition of this site is unmatched. I would argue that the best players play here so you've definitely come to the right spot.

The atmosphere on the other hand is mostly good (charged is a good word) but you should know that the forums are not a place for the weak hearted. It is a free and open community. And I mean that in the most liberal sense you could possibly interpret.

;-))

I've been with the hobby for about 3 years now and joined this site back in the spring. as a newer player I'd say that you can get a lot more out of the games that have messaging than the ones that don't. The fun part -- the great part -- about the hobby is the diplomacy. The games that don't have messaging aren't very rewarding. Though you can learn a little from watching some of the moves it seems like wasted effort to me. The 2 live games I've been in have been a blast. 5 minute moves especially!

I have been a member since the spring as well. At first I got a group of friends to play in some private games. I really suggest you look into the Tournaments and Leagues. That is where I have had my best games. Keep an eye on the forum for Tourney messages and you can visit http://tournaments.webdiplomacy.net/ for a list of some of the bigger ones as well as the Leagues. Welcome charlesf!

As a reallly old player who played by mail almost 40 years ago with 3 week deadlines, I would just like to say that I like the site and think there are some very good players and some very poor players and then there are some players who leave the game just because they aren't going to win. Mr Duke, pick a game with more rather than fewer points and you will find better players. Double your points(assuming a draw) and play in an even more expensive game. Eventually, you find really good player who will help you get back to under 100. You could even start a game for 100 buy in, annon if you like, 36 hour deadlines, and wait for them to come to you. Let me know, I'll play.

Hey there charlesf, and welcome to the site! I'm probably the newest of the players to post on here - I only started playing Diplomacy back in August - but I have to say I love this site. The different game variants are great. The gunboat games (anonymous players, no-chat) can be really great if played with high quality players (but only if) because you have to find ways of communicating alliances without written communication. The other maps this site has is great as well.

The forum is very lively, and you can get into some very interesting and intellectual discussions on there. Anything from economic policy to literature to art... its great.

Hope you stay with us and enjoy!

Thanks for the input. I'm curious to try this out one day, as much as traditional human-adjucated pbem-diplomacy shall always remain my first love.

But a fast-paced rough-and-tumble type of game here I trust also has its special flavour I'm interested in. Just a different type of experience. Kinda the intermediary step between traditional pbem-diplomacy and ftf-diplomacy. Is that a fair description?

I would say that's fair. Although when you do live chat games you can have a lot of pressure on you to type quickly

>>> The gunboat games (anonymous players, no-chat) can be really great if played with high quality players (but only if) because you have to find ways of communicating alliances without written communication.

Negotiations are key to what I like about the game, so gunboat ain't for me.

> The other maps this site has is great as well.

I'm not too fond of AncientMed, to be honest. My favourite variants are 1900 (which I consider an improved Standard), Ambition & Empire - and my own two variants:

1648: http://www.dipwiki.com/index.php?title=1648_v33

1936: http://www.dipwiki.com/index.php?title=1936_v15

>>>> Although when you do live chat games you can have a lot of pressure on you to type quickly

Sounds like very much like the rough-and-tumble of ftf-dipping. I also like that flavour (though 5 minutes per move deadline would be pushing it too much for my tastes). Much as I like the more analytical flavour of 5 day move deadlines that are the norm in pbem-dipping.

Do you get 5 day deadlines here, or is it more like 48 hours or less?

I've had difficulty with gunboat, but it's an interesting concept. But I can see where you come from.

I just like Ancient med because I've never been eliminated on that map :)

And those maps are pretty interesting that you put up. How does the whole Spanish faction thing work out? It'd be cool to try them.

If you start your own game, you can set the deadlines as long as you'd like, although you'll be hard pressed to find many players that will join a game with longer than 3 day phases

I've had more of a look at the site interface. Pretty cool. Seems those responsible have really gone the extra mile to make Diplomacy accessible to newbies.

As for games, I think I'd only consider joining winner-takes-all games. Yep, guess I am a traditionalist! :)

>>> And those maps are pretty interesting that you put up. How does the whole Spanish faction thing work out? It'd be cool to try them.

We've only got a limited sample of games to date. While I've worked on it since 2003, I only launched the first playtest in 2009. To date, we've had the Nationalists gain the upper hand in one game, while the Republicans have conquered Iberia in two others. We still have to see 'em both fall victim to surrounding powers...

Anyway, the Spanish Civil War aspect is something players really do enjoy. And players love the bidding for influence among minor powers. I'm happy to say that the variant gets good reviews by players.

We're about to organise a small tournament for the variant. If you fancy joining, you're most welcome to do so.

Charles

@Eurotrav: no messaging games are commonly refered to as 'gunboat' and (i'm fairly sure) are not considered diplomacy (thought there is a strong gunboat contingent here who would argue that reading peoples intentions from their moves and communicating through moves is a skill in itself...)

@charlesf: FYI you can implement your own varianst on olidip.net (well actually i'm not sure what oli requires before he gives out access to the server...) but as webdip is opensource you can download and implement your own server fairly easily (though i keep failing to install the server...)

I imagine there is far less multi-accusations in pbem games, or any game with a human adjudicator. Also i find that games with a 5 day turn are too slow for me, (now that i've gotten used to 25 hour/phase) when it is 1903 on my slow game and i've finished my fast game in the same time... i imagine it takes some time to adjust.

Also while the amount of press may be lower at times, i usually do get at least one/two messages from each neighbour each phase. (sometimes more, i think actually being in the same timezone can help, and it's not too hard to find palyers in your timezone... i think)

Have a look on the 'new games' page, then advanced options, and you can see all the options available.

Personally I'd suggest 25hr phases if you can get to the PC a few times a day, or 50hr if not.

@orathaic: Thanks for the heads-up. Unfortunately, since I have no programming skills whatsoever and my variants aren't pure map-variants, I doubt I'd be able to create a fully operational variant module for either 1936 or 1648. I've created though variant modules for Realpolitik to assist human GMs. At some point, I was hoping to work on implementing my variants on the DPJudge, since it supports the Diplomatic Points mechanism.

As for players illegally taking on numerous power positions in a game, I don't think that's a problem in the human-adjucation part of the hobby. You have a very personal atmosphere in that context. Totally different from something like this site. For starters, we use real names, not aliases, know where people live, often what they do for a living etcetc. It has a more "home-made" feel to it. It's what people like so much about that way of playing. With longer deadlines and no anonymity, I dare say it also helps the quality of play.

But the ease in which you can play a quick and very easily organised game on this site, is of course also a big plus. And makes our hobby more accessible.

Really don't think such different play formats directly compete with another. They just scratch a different itch and the Diplomacy hobby is richer because of it.

I don't think I'd be interested in joining a 5 day deadline game here. I'd probably choose a human adjucation game for that (particularly as my bulk of playing is focussed on variants). But I am interested in trying out say a fast 24h game, or 10min deadline life play. Seems that's where webDiplomacy's strength is.

Welcome to the site, charles!

I understand a lot of people from the PBeM world find aliases very odd. But, it's a very natural thing for younger generations. Despite not knowing most people's names, I can tell you what country most people are from, their occupation, and their approx age. So, there is a pretty strong sense of community here, nonetheless.

As for cheating, in the 70 games I've played on this site, I've only had 1 or 2 problems with cheaters. So, for me at least, the problem has almost been nonexistent.

We have a lot of very high quality players on this site. The best way to find them is to skim over the Forum and look for people advertising games. Very soon, you'll be able to tell who the top-notch players are.

Hope to see you around!

@Charles, to see a list of variants that have been done for the webdip platform, go here: http://olidip.net/variants.php

It is a separate (sister) site so you have to setup your user account over there to play any of those variants over there, but you can come and post here to try and start up a game over there.

And as orathaic indicated, you could implement your variants and get them added to olidip.net. If you have special rules, then you'll have to know how to program in php and possibly javascript. But if it is just a different map then I believe that is mostly grunt work. I haven't done it myself so don't know for sure. You can probably find out more by asking in the olidip.net forum, or at the webdip developer forum found here: http://forum.webdiplomacy.net/

As said, Alderian, I don't have any programming skills. So I couldn't implement my on variants. Not that I'll leave any sleep over that. Right now, I'm quite happy with building a 1936 and 1648 community with human-adjucated games.

As for the variants on olidip, I had a look at them earlier to check whether any Diplomatic Points variant is among them, but that mechanism hasn't yet made it to web-based dipping, so it seems. DPJudge clearly is one step farther there.

It's really too bad the 1900 variant isn't implemented on either this site or olidip. It's one of the very best variants the hobby has produced and is generally considered superior to Standard by those familiair with it.

@charles

By 1900, do you mean build anywhere the first turn? Because that is definitely on olidip

No, I mean this:

http://www.diplom.org/Zine/F2007M/Roburn/1900.htm

One of the more popular Diplomacy variants out there. And as said, generally considered by those who know it as superior to Standard.

ic

Yes, as has probably been mentioned, the problem with that is all the non-standard rules. So, in that regard, PBeM still has a leg up. However, for vanilla Diplomacy, I'd say this implementation is far superior.

@charles - I'm still fond of certain aspects of the judges like the fact that nations missing turns cause the game to stop rather than imbalancing them by game play continuing with an inactive nation. But overall, playing here has been a verypositive experience.

Just to make Goldfinger not the newest one here anymore(been here since september), I welcome you Charlesf. I have nothing else to say. just welcome...

eh, I would say it's interesting, but not superior. I skimmed over the article that the variant was based on and I disagree with a lot of the issues the author has with the standard version.

No, I mean this:

http://www.diplom.org/Zine/F2007M/Roburn/1900.htm

One of the more popular Diplomacy variants out there. And as said, generally considered by those who know it as superior to Standard.

Double post...