Notice how no one ever suggests that Europeans couldn't have built stuff on their own. It's always Egyptians, Aztec, Polynesians, etc? Maybe great feats of engineering have been the norm throughout history and Europeans were just dumber than everyone else?

@mafia -agreed
@CM - get your head out of your ass and do some research. Just because you read that on the internet doesn't make it true

@Stratagos: Watch the ancient aliens series on History Channel, and read the book "Chariots of the Gods"? Then try to tell me to do research. Also, what about the Nazca lines. They are on top of a mountain whose actual top was cut off. The mountains around them have their tops. Explain to me how that's possible for ancient civilization to do. Why do ancient civilizations have statuetted of things that look like planes, that, when enlarged and have a motor added on, can actually fly? Why did so many civilizations that had no contact whatsoever all build pyramids? The list goes on and on.

@Mafia: Except we can't do those feats of engineering now. That says that something was going on in the past.

Something was going on in the past, and I would say that it is that the ancients are not given enough credit for their brains. They were no different from us, and we have gone to the moon. What's to prevent them from doing something equally impressive, like cutting the top off a mountain? Admittedly, that does not disprove alien visitations, but it also shows that such visitations are not necessary to such advanced feats. We can have artificial flight without ET's, and so, if they were not fundamentally different, why couldn't they do the same?
That's my view.

Of course UFOs exist. U)nidentified F)lying O)bject. Until identified, anything flying is technically a UFO. So where is the problem?

I've *owned* the Von Dalken books, you twit. I've also owned the scholarly debunking of them

What mountain had it's top cut off?
@Draug ZING!
@Strat BAM!

Scholary work. Whatever

*applause* to stratagos for starting a thread through blatant trolling.

On topic: It is completely feasible that the ancient civilizations did accomplish these feats. But, that doesn't necessarily disprove the alien theory.

Although it seems pretty silly to think that the aliens visited, helped out all of these civilizations in completely unnecessary ways, and then never showed up again.

@CM - The Great Pyramid at Giza (I'm assuming that's the one you're talking about) consists of an estimated 2.3 million blocks of stone. It was estimated to be completed over 20 years. So, 20 years = 7305 days (5 leap years) = 175,320 hours.

so: 2,300,000 blocks / 175,320 hours = 13.11 blocks/hour.

Do you honestly think that we couldn't place 13 blocks per hour with modern equipment? With our gigantic cranes and bulldozers and trucks? Even though each block weighed approximately 2.8 tons (calculated from Wikipedia so the real number might be a little different), there would be no problem placing that number of blocks. There would easily be at least 10 different cranes working at any given time on the side seeing as how the base of the pyramid is a 755 foot square and would give plenty of room. This means each crane would have to do just over a block per hour. As an engineer myself, I've seen steel bridge supports that EASILY weigh that much put in place in less than 15 minutes.

*10 different cranes working at any given time on the SITE

not side

I don't know why people need to use things like the pyramids and whatnot to prove that aliens exist or that they came here. These things got made, how? I dunno but assuming it was aliens is pretty crazy. Of course aliens exist, in this vast, limitless universe you think ours is the only planet with life on it? Have aliens been here before? I dunno, I've never met one. Do I care if they have and I just don't know about it? No way Jose!

And as for building pyramids, nothing is impossible when you have millions of slaves at your disposal.

I've seen skyscrapers and bridges that rival the pyramids in size and far surpass them built in less than a year and there are supercruiseliners far bigger and for more complex built in far less time. That whole pyramid thing might fool a gullible person, but not intelligent engineers and lawyers and doctors and such.

@Drano: Well then the History channel is wrong. Their estimate was one block per 9 seconds. But even then, how did the ancient civilizations get the blocks up there? Ramps take time to build too.

@Burgalveist: The mountain with the nazca lines on top.

@Kreator: I didn't even create this thread. How am I trolling?

@Stratagos: "I've *owned* the Von Dalken books, you twit. I've also owned the scholarly debunking of them" It's Von Daniken, not Von Dalken so I really doubt you own his books. And if you actually do, then explain to me how you debunk them.

There's even more evidence too. For example, did you know that the perimeter of the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacan has the same perimeter as the Great Pyramid, which is in Egypt. And speaking of the pyramids at Teotihuacan, did you knoiw that there were more pyramids and other things arranged in concemtric circles around the pyramid of the sun, and the distance between each circle is proportional as the distance betwwen the orbits of the planets in the Solar System? And that Stonehenge also had concentric circles with distances in between that are proportional to the distances in between the planets of the Solar System. And did you know that the layout of Teotihuacan looked at from above resemble a constellation, and a group of mountains on MARS! There is no way this is all pure coincidence.

"And as for building pyramids, nothing is impossible when you have millions of slaves at your disposal." Do you really think it is more likely that a pharoah enslaved his entire people than aliens visited us in the past? The universe is very old. I doubt that we were the first civilization created, and I doubt that we're the only civilization interested in exploring. Those two facts put together mean that most likely, there is an alien race in space, who could have and most likely did, find us.

"I've seen skyscrapers and bridges that rival the pyramids in size and far surpass them built in less than a year and there are supercruiseliners far bigger and for more complex built in far less time." That is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. We have MUCH better technology than ancient civilizations did. They shouldn't have been able to build these things at ALL.

@CM - 1 block per 9 seconds! So in other words, they built the pyramid at Giza approximately 30 times faster than what I posted? Did they build them in less than a year perhaps? Because that's the speed with which you're suggesting. Perhaps you remembered wrong and they said 1 block per 9 MINUTES which is more believable.

Some Facts: Pyramid of the Sun : 733.2 feet per side
Great Pyramid at Giza: 755.9 feet per side

Therefore, NOT the same. Do a simple google search before you make that claim.

@CM -

"That is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. We have MUCH better technology than ancient civilizations did. They shouldn't have been able to build these things at ALL."

According to you though, we can't even replicate their feats of engineering nowadays WITH our modern technology. Look at your post from further up the thread and you'll see that you made that claim.

I heard that on the History Channel. Although Wikipedia verifies your measurements, I find it hard to believe that the History channel would let something as wrong as that air. But even so, you can't deny the rest of my evidence.

If I could find where you found the rest of your evidence, I'm sure we could find an explanation. Would you care to share where you found the information about the concentric circles at Stonehenge and the Pyramid of the Sun being proportional to the planets?

@Drano: Again, that is what the History Channel said. But still, an ancient civilization should not be able to pull this off. How did they get the stones up high? Ramps would have been built. But those rampls take time to build. Plus, the wheel and pulley system hadn't been invented yet! (If this is wrong, please tell me, because that fact come from the History Channel too)

Jesus CM, you realize all the crap is pseudoscientific bullshit. You're completely underestimating the power of a massive labour force. All you need is some tens of thousands of workers overseen with a simple understanding of mechanics. Pyramids are a popular choice for massive building because it's the easiest shape to build for something of that size. You start with a solid base and you build up from there with very little risk of collapse. All you need is the time and labour to brute force it using simple machines such as ramps and pulleys to create mechanical advantage. Something like a skyscraper, or even medieval cathedrals will require more modern technology.

There are countless examples of massive ancient public works projects, some more well documented than others. One of my favourite is the Dujiangyan Irrigation system, simply because the story behind it is so amusing. In short, some 2300 years ago, with some tens of thousands of men, he split the mighty Min river in two and created levees to protect from the annual flooding that had previously plagued the region surrounding modern Chengdu in about four years. In another eight years he bored a 20m wide channel through the nearby mountain simply by heating the rocks with fire and cooling them with water to crack them repeatedly and remove them. Diverting part of the river through the mountain resulted in irrigation of the plains below that made the earth so fertile that the locals were able to live comfortably up to the present, with the same system still in place, irrigating some 5300 sq km. So much so that since this public works project, Chengdu is renowned for it's laidback attitude even up to the present day since it eliminated the risk of flooding and crop failure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Bing_%28administrator%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dujiangyan_Irrigation_System
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/columnone/la-fi-chinaparty8feb08,1,7457737.story?page=2&coll=la-headlines-columnone

Oh, and for good measure, here's a video of a *single* man doing incredible works, such as erecting a stone slab over 19000 lbs a la Stone Henge, using only simple mechanical principles, no advanced technology at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7q20VzwVs&feature=related

@Drano: History Channel. But some of that stuff is undeniable. Like a statuette drom ancient times that looks like a plane, and when they enlarged it, actually flew. Or the fact that the layout of Teotihuacan is the same as a constellation, and a patter of mountains on Mars. They showed pictures to support that.

Chrispminis +1

CM - Have you ever considered coincidence? Of all the mountains on Mars, you don't think that some of them happen to look like the layout of Teotihuacan? And constellations? Please, these people believed the stars were GODS! Of course they'd make their pyramids look like a constellation!!!

Also, the History Channel puts shows on that are controversial so that they get viewers and people talking about the shows. Or do you really believe that Nostradamus predicted everything perfectly as well? Because History Channel runs that show all the time.

@Chrisp: How do we really know if the block weighed 22,000 pounds?

"Of all the mountains on Mars, you don't think that some of them happen to look like the layout of Teotihuacan?" That is the new stupidest argument I have ever heard. Of all the possible layouts for Teotihuacan, why would the one it has look like o constellation on Mars? You can't blame everything on coincidence.

Should be montains on Mars, not constellation on Mars, by the way.