Well, the EU or China could easily crush us if they wanted to, and the CIS could as well if they were willing to use nukes.

I don't know how they might easily crush us. Militarily the States could take on either of them easily and global economies are too integrated to allow anyone to make any particular action against the states there,

No human institution can last forever. The US's dominance will end someday.

However, reports of the death of the American empire have been greatly exaggerated. The current financial crisis, while no lark, is being greatly overhyped because of the impending general election. On the terrorism front, whatever you think of Bush policies, there have been no successful terrorist attacks on US domestic targets since 9/11, and Al Qaeda seem to be losing most of the eggs the staked on the Iraq basket. As for low international opinion, being a superpower is a thankless job. Great Britain, Rome, and the rest were all hated in their age, but if you're a superpower, do you really need to be loved by your clients?

The fact is that as things are, the US is needed. I wish it weren't true, but someone has to be the world's policeman. The US, for all its warts and sins, has the best record of any empire in history for intervening with restraint and then pulling out when the mission's over, doing their best to leave the locals in better shape than before.

America will fall someday, but I hope not too soon, and when it finally happens I hope for the sake of the world's people of good will that America's successor is even half as benevolent.

Long Live the Empire!

I assume Wellington, you are American? Because that was the biggest load of B.S. I've read in a while.

"The US, for all its warts and sins, has the best record of any empire in history for intervening with restraint and then pulling out when the mission's over, doing their best to leave the locals in better shape than before."

Thanks! I needed a laugh today!

America's a good country gone temporarily bad and dragging every other country with it and not just economically. Don't worry though if the world's a sane and proper place America will go back to its usual good and bring everyone else back with it.

America's usual good? at what point in history was america 'good'?

"The fact is that as things are, the US is needed. I wish it weren't true, but someone has to be the world's policeman. The US, for all its warts and sins, has the best record of any empire in history for intervening with restraint and then pulling out when the mission's over, doing their best to leave the locals in better shape than before."

wow, someone graduated from the school of Rove...and celebrated with a game of baseball and apple pie while draped the American flag.

I was going to retort, but you can just as easily take the exact opposite of the above paragraph as my opinion.

it kindof seems like these kinds of disscussions are populated, about half and half with people who read alot, are fairly intelligent and articulate, get their information form numerous sources, and the other half with people who really love fox news and have a bust of darth cheyney on their headboard.

being proud of your country is one thing, but when patriotism clouds your judgement, it becomes ignorance

Agreed Sicarius.

weird to see that here

OK, whether I agree with Wellington or not, I take issue with you guys who are beating up on him. If you assert that his statement about the US having the best record for using restraint and then pulling out is BS, then give an example of somebody who has a better record. I don't think he was referring to only recent history as it seems Darwyn is assuming. Look at the last century or more. How many times has the US got sucked into a war it really didn't want, only to win, then pull out, AND give the losers money?

lets see... (counts in head) none.

yeah schlort come on and give some examples then

Well actually you we rebuilt Germany and Japan after World War II, financed Germany after World War I, paid Spain for the Philippines after the Spanish-American War, & rebuilt the South. No to mention aid to South Korea and South Vietnam, and all the investment in Iraq and Afghanistan, rightly or wrongly. We also gave Grenada money, I believe.

So don't beat up so much on America. Considering what we're been in a position to do, we've shown considerable restrain. The British took all of India and France had half of Africa.

Well, The USA did provide large funds to rebuild Europe after WWII, especially Germany. In the case of both wars there was a fairly large isolationist sentiment among the people and politicians. However, it was in the interest of the United States to give funds to its allies and occupied areas to help prevent Soviet domination of the area.

I dont think the USA is perfect, and has done some horrible things, but it is interesting to see how many people think it is so positively evil now. It is not the evil empire so many people think it to be, and the problems it faces are rather recent. It's like every other country, it has its good moments and its bad moments

Our involvement involvement in South Vietnam was simply us taking over for the french in the region and our fear of China and russia having control in the region.

But yes, for a country as powerful as the US has been it certainly has refrained from the kind of colonization that Europe was intersted in. USA did recieve many colonies from Spain after the war though, some of which still havent been given up. But America also hasnt fought its colonies the way some European powers such as France has

Extremely optimistic quote of the day:
"Be courageous! Whatever setbacks America has encountered, it has always emerged as a stronger and more prosperous nation...."
"Be brave as your fathers before you. Have faith and go forward"
-Thomas Edison
I bet none of you were expecting that!

The U.S. history of Foreign Intervention and War has always, always been in service of American foreign interests or expansion. That's fine. But don't go around claiming that America is using it's military to 'help the world'. The U.S. has plenty of times chosen to overthrow democracies, support dictatorships, and to sit aside and let war and genocide occur where it doesn't see an immediate self-serving interest, WW1 and WW2 being perfect examples.

Americans, stop claiming the Gov't and Military is helping, or 'policing' the world, because the world doesn't believe it, and your only demonstrating your self-ignorance. I love Americans, but fuck your ignorant.

And, oh yeah, "Spreading Democracy" is just a euphemism for enlarging American Interests where convenient. I'll be happy to give you plenty of examples of America over-throwing popularly elected Democracies when it suits them, but lets start with with Iran, Chile, and Ecuador.

I'd like to point out that all the pro-American posts have been well organized and polite while the anti-American ones are full of hate.

You foreigners are the crazy ones, you don't even have the right football!

I'm not saying America should be policing the world, but you seem to think that America can only do wrong. America is not alone in those actions. Every country is self serving. Of course the government does things when it is in its interest to do so, but that is true of any government. What I am trying to say is that whatever government you are under is no better than the one I am under.

To clarify: I was responding to the original point about the decline of the American Empire, not about America's foreign interventions being righteous.

@invitus more people play football than "american football" where you use your hands not your feet the majority of people arent wrong in their naming so stop proving deliciouswolfs ignorant comment right

You take it all so seriously! This is the real problem with the world, people can't take a joke.

"then give an example of somebody who has a better record"

There's no need. We can simply point out that it's BS. I'm not going to do the research for you, it's easily attainable...the fact is that US imperialism has caused hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of deaths worldwide just from the beginning of the last century. Just for example: Phillipines c. 1900, Haiti c. 1915, Nicaragua c. 1902, Dominican Republic c. 1916, Honduras c. 1903.

That doesn't even mention the support the US gives to pro-western dictators like the Shah of Iran, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Noreiga, Hussein...the list goes on.

There's a LOT of history that the US education system neglects to tell you.

The statement Wellington made, with all due respect, was ignorant and naive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro-American. It's ...but let's not pretend that the good even comes close to outweighing the bad.

"How many times has the US got sucked into a war it really didn't want"

Another good example. You think the US elite didn't want any of those wars?! Sure the people did not. But again, let's not pretend that war isn't the biggest business there ever is/was, loaded with astronomical profit.

When it comes to money, people can be relatively easily fooled.

P.S. I'm American.

I don't think Invictus was completely serious about the football comment, trim101.

Oh, sorry. He already said so himself.

But to answer the topic question...the US is in permanent decline. Our government is paving the way toward globalism...next stop, the North American Union.

Permanent decline? Did you not read the above quote I referenced? That should have explained everything!