I sorely hope the markets recover, otherwise we are in serious trouble. Almost everyone's pension plans, for example, are linked to the stock market.

£93bn wiped off the value of the FTSE100 (the British Stock Market), the worst one day performance (-7.85%) since 1987.

1987 was a blip.

Yes, but it was still worse one day performance. Take a monthly or quaternally performance and, well, I don't know what the figures might be.

That was about as emotionless as I could manage, I dont know how you could assume whether I was happy or sad about it.
mixed feelings.

look at nasdaq, look at S&P, the asian markets, the european markets, its all tanking.
looks like a playground slide.

Sounds like someone should have drawn the game while they had the chance

(or something)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dpJL6ANnV0

You cannot hope to stop inflation with more inflation as this bailout is doing. The only way to stop this mess is to put the issuance of money, backed by a gold standard, into the hands of the people via Congress...not the conglomerate of 13 private banks that is called the US Federal Reserve.

US Federal Reserve = perpetual debt. Period.

darwyn, petitions reeeally arnt my thing but you might find this interesting

http://www.restoretherepublic.com/take-action/petition-shut-down-the-federal-reserve

I might have asked this in a response to an earlier thread, but what is the common book that Economics 101 students read? Some unbiased textbook for the uninitiated that'll give me the basics I need to understand what this crisis is?
If we had a particle physicist and a theoretical cosmologist surely we must have an economist of some sort?

Dow jones has fallen to 9760

thats about a 150 points since I posted this thread.

let me remind you if the Dow reaches 8500 the stock market closes

kestas

Economics in One Lesson: The Shortest and Surest Way to Understand Basic Economics by Henry Hazlitt

The Mystery of Banking by Murray N. Rothbard

The Wealth of Nations, by Adam Smith

The Incredible Bread Machine: A Study of Capitalism, Freedom, & the State by R. W. Grant

Yeah, petitions won't do a damn thing, IMO.

Kestas...I don't think you'll need an economics course to understand some of the basics...here:

The Federal Reserve Bank hires the US Treasury to print up some money. The Federal Reserve only actually pays the treasury for the cost of the printing, they do NOT pay $1 for each 1$ printed. But the Federal Reserve turns around and loans out that money (or credit line) to banks at full face value, those banks which have exhausted their deposits then loan that Federal Reserve fiat money to you, and you must repay it in the full dollar value (plus interest) in work product, even though the Federal Reserve printed that money for pennies, or created it out of thin air in a computer.

Think about that now with regard to this bailout...

From an economics perspective, I've always liked Free to Choose, by Milton Friedman.

Sicarius, those are some awfully pro-capitalist books you're referring to. :-)

I thought the $850 billion dollar bailout was supposed to stop this from happening? Further proof that the hands at the helm either have no idea what they're doing or are deliberately aiming straight for that iceberg. You can be sure they all have lifeboats, but us Little People are screwed...

I'd say you're right on with the latter, Tolstoy.

Say hello to the Amero!

I'm not going to get into a debate about the gold standard. But! I will say that in an attempt to come up with a topical drink Friday night, my friends and I invented "The Ron Paul Gold Standard." It's equal parts Goldschlager and Creme de Menth (so it's green money being backed by gold). Then just mix that with club soda to taste (we found without the soda it was WAY too sweet). For fun you can say things like "give me a Ron Paul, hold the money" and I guess now that I think of you could just have creme de menth and soda and call it the "fiat currency."

Nice DrOct! =D I'll have to give it a try.

The nice thing about it is, that once you add the soda it really isn't too bad (assuming you like mint and cinnamon flavors).

The other suggestion as simply to filter the goldschlager through a cheese cloth or something and just keep the gold and put it under your mattress.

Disclaimer: The above alternative suggestion would be a TERRIBLE way to try to make money (well unless you could steal the liquor somehow I guess, even then, the risk/reward ratio would be very very poor).

btw, DOW's back over 10,000.

Buy When There's Blood In The Streets. - Baron Rothschild

I really don't see why ordinary people get upset by rises and falls in the Dow (or the S&P500 for that matter) except out of panic that this says something about the economy. But unless you have substantial holdings, you're life hasn't changed from yesterday, still gotta get dressed, eat breakfast, etc.

I have all of my life's investments in the stockmarket, and any fall in the market merely presents me an excellent opportunity to purchase excellent companies at discounted prices.

Anybody who was depending on the stock market for their retirement should have moved to money Yielding investments already (T-Bills, Dividend stocks, etc.) which aren't affected by ups and downs.

Doesn't anyone read Warren Buffet anymore? Or is that too 'old-fashioned' ?

@DeliciousWolf

Exactly. If you want to make money in the long term the stockmarket is an excellent way to do it, the only people that would be upset about things like this are people who are trying to make short term money. Every expert I've ever talked to has said that if you need money in the next five years it shouldn't be in the market. But beyond that, especially when you get to the 10 or more year range, a good index fund or very well managed mutual fund, is an excellent way to make money.

My fiance for example, has a retirement plan with her job that is set up to be heavily invested in the stock market right now, becuase she's got a long time before retirement, and it will automatically move more and more of that money into less and less risky investments as she gets closer to retirement.

To be honest, a low stock market right now is a great time to be getting started on something long term like that, everything's on sale!

Of course if Sicarius' fear mongering turns out to be right then long term we're all screwed on money anyway. Let's hope if civilization collapses, everything is as great as he thinks it'll be!

No, civilisation isn't about to collapse. If anything is going to happen, it is the total take-over by the Chinese.

Exactly. If we're not careful we'll all have to learn "March of the Volunteers" and wear Mao suits.

So, what happens when the dow falls below 10,000? how do they reopen the stock market if it closes? what does this mean for people like me (poor middle class guy trying to get an eduacation?)

I hate to be boring but the actions of civilization so far suggest that big crashes and a spectacular 'fall of man' isn't going to happen.

We'll just keep muddling through.


Occassionally, during Recessions, Wars, famines, the muddling can get pretty darn uncomfortable. But its by no means the end of our basic organizing institutions.

nothing happens when dow drops below 10,000
thats kinda the point of no return though.
after that its kindof a downward spiral

it closes at 8500, aka a stock market crash

todays close was 9,956.

tolstoy
yeah maybe they are pro capitalist, know thy enemy right?
and seriously, thank god someone else knows that it's a 850 bil bailout not a 700 bil bailout

ok, so at 8,500 the stock market crashes, or closes. is there any way to open it again? or does it just sit there in limbo like unbaptised cathlic babies

(i know the pope says Limbo is no longer church doctrine)

I'm sorry, but that needs a little dogmatic clarification. Limbo was always a theological theory, it was never officially brought made Church dogma. Now it is understood that the fate of unbaptized infants was never directly revealed, so their destination is ultimately unknown. It's still a belief that the Church allows (believing in Limbo doesn't make you a heretic) but it isn't required.

Sorry, just the Catholic school boy in me coming out. There's also a whole other Limbo for the Biblical Patriarchs, but that's a largely separate issue.