Image is everything. Wealth is everything in America. That is if you value capitalism and flaunting your prosperity.

I seem to recall that you vowed to stop making troll threads.. are you not trolling then?

Im not trolling. Im being serious

I think they both talk about different aspects of the American way. Country and rock usually focus on freedom and the ability to do what you want regardless of wealth or status. Rap and hip hop tend to focus on the over embellishments of American society, how money is the core drive for most Americans and status is defined by wealth. I don't think these are mutually exclusive.

Note there are outliers, example Macklemore who tends to focus on big issues in his rap, or some of the bro-country artists who lean very closely to the rap hip hop vibes.

What makes me excited is that we live ina time when music is as loose as ever and definitions are not grounded. People are more exposed to new ideas and it shows in the billboard charts.

Also guns. Guns are a capitalists best friend. We love guns and gun culture

Very true byron but I think as far as fueling desire to go out and buy shit - rap/hip hop generates more drive to economy. You hear a song about lambrginis and gold you want to buy stuff

I'm pretty sure the intention of rap that involves talking about money is a **celebration of success** in a capitalist system that tends to, on average, disenfranchise the people who make this music. I think it's extremely simplistic to say that this promotes capitalism whereas ideas of being free apparently don't.

On the contrary, I think rap can be seen as more of a critique to the capitalist system in that it actually tells you that you need these insane materialistic things to succeed in this world. Narratives that tell you that you're happy and free regardless of your financial situation actually serve to normalize a person's role within capitalist societies. I really don't think the average person listens to Future and goes "oh fuck I really need to buy into this system so I can wear Gucci and Prada at the same damn time"

Yeah, I think the average person listens to Future and says "I can't understand what the fuck this guy is saying."

I dont disagree but take the Romper for example. Bruno Mars has single handedly kept that shit in business. Who the fuck would wear that unless someone famous does.

Can you imagine a rockstar or country singer flaunting a romper and pulling it off?

What? Are you just trolling?
a) what does any of that have to do with rap (Bruno Mars is not rap, or are you just blaming people of colour at random)
b) how is the fashion trend of rompers being popular promoting capitalism, and how is this expressed through music (???) apparently flaunting jeans and a t shirt is better than flaunting a romper? I don't follow
c) you might want to consider blaming the fashion industry or the film industry instead if something like this is your issue

I did say rap and hip hop. What is the sudden accusation of racism?

why do people always think capitalism is a social/cultural system?

Bruno Mars is not rap or hip hop.....

Music and Film stars feed fashion and vice versa. Even counrry music promotes the sale of boots and cowboy hats. Rap and hip hop are far better at promoting a variety of shoes, clothes, jackets and unique outfits that may not ptherwise take off in popularity
Gold chains, ect

I tend to stay away from all music that includes profanity, sexism, misogyny, and violence. I don't know how many hip hop and rap songs or country songs promote these values, but I don't listen to either type. I actually avoid music because you never know if a musician is going to say something that is offensive.

I actually can't remember the last time I seriously listened to anything other than talk radio or an audio book. Wow.

Yanik - the need for marketing, product placement, celebrity appearances in commercials, the arbitrary appearance of a soda can in lawrence of arabia, all of this proves capitalism is about enticement. It is a system. People dont buy things in a vacuum. They have to hear about them, see their favorite athletes in an ad for them (peyton manning selling shit) or in the case of music culture I was making the argument that rap/hip hop sells you and entices you on products more than say rock or country. I suppose Rock could sell you on wearing black and getting tattoos and binge drinking?

I mean isn't Hot Topic basically the same thing for rock? People see rock bands wearing certain hints and having certain dark themes and then go buy shit at Hit Topic. It's not any different

Hot Topic is feeding a very small sub culture at this point by comparison. Their net sales are significantly lower than the more mainstream product placements. But you are right. And in the late 90's all the way to last few years there was still a large goth movement and following because of twilight that kept dark clothes, fishnets, and the "goth/vamp" craze alive

But what is bigger than Hot Topic that hip hop has created?

Rap just more often has themes of materialism, wealth and status. That doesn't mean it's more capitalistic - and certainly not more "product placaement".

Starter caps, shoes, apple bottom jeans, boots with the fur, diamonds on the grill, american apparel, forever21, the list is enormus. Some even famously cemented in lyrical history.

Forever 21? American Apparel? What relevance do those have? Again I think materialism and status are often themes present in rap - but I that's not product placement. And rap often has the "rags to riches" narrative - which can be viewed as capitalist I guess.

Go to a country concert and see how many people have cowboy boots and cowboy hats and tell me that's not the same thing.

bb, you've completely missed the point of hip hop and rap.

I don't know... That kind of "fashion" is what we associate with Gypsies here.

@Brainbomb

"Yanik - the need for marketing, product placement, celebrity appearances in commercials, the arbitrary appearance of a soda can in lawrence of arabia, all of this proves capitalism is about enticement."

and it's enticing because...? the culture supports this stuff. i mean there are sects of amish who are purely capitalistic, and they don't need ANY of that. capitalism expands on culture.

"It is a system. People dont buy things in a vacuum. They have to hear about them, see their favorite athletes in an ad for them (peyton manning selling shit) or in the case of music culture I was making the argument that rap/hip hop sells you and entices you on products more than say rock or country."

but this isn't true. there are plenty of studies that show that marketing can be entirely irrelevant for some industries. we have examples of companies having to make cuts and about to close shop, and destroying their entire marketing department, but then they make the same revenue in terms of volume.

many people in america do buy in a "vacuum" essential price shopping at a store.

"I suppose Rock could sell you on wearing black and getting tattoos and binge drinking?"

yes but Rock, a cultural phenomenon, promotes this, and capitalism reacts to it. i mean country music promotes a more western style, and the market reacts to that as well.

capitalism is essentially freedom of choice, and what we choose is decided on our culture. perhaps our system can perpetuate certain culture, but capitalism is almost always downstream, and not the catalyst of trends.

recently there's been studies also coming out theorizing at whether or not companies reacting to trends to stay in touch with youth generations, is actually having a negative effect on brand image.

capitalism as an economic system, that reacts to culture.

"capitalism as an economic system, that reacts to culture."

Che Guevara T-shirts. Capitalism will adapt to anything.

Yanik in so many ways you are wrong.


"and it's enticing because...? the culture supports this stuff. i mean there are sects of amish who are purely capitalistic, and they don't need ANY of that. capitalism expands on culture."

A. The Amish have self sustaining economies and dwell LITERALLY as outliers to virtually every trend of the modern world .

B. Trends change, styles change, everything changes. The bands wearing hair a certain way in the 80's influenced hairstyles in the culture.



Yanik in so many ways you are wrong.


"and it's enticing because...? the culture supports this stuff. i mean there are sects of amish who are purely capitalistic, and they don't need ANY of that. capitalism expands on culture."

A. The Amish have self sustaining economies and dwell LITERALLY as outliers to virtually every trend of the modern world .

B. Trends change, styles change, everything changes. The bands wearing hair a certain way in the 80's influenced hairstyles in the culture.

"But this isn't true. there are plenty of studies that show that marketing can be entirely irrelevant for some industries. we have examples of companies having to make cuts and about to close shop, and destroying their entire marketing department, but then they make the same revenue in terms of volume.

many people in america do buy in a "vacuum" essential price shopping at a store."

Marketing is everything. Name me one fortune 500 company that thrives without it. Name we one fast food chain that doesnt think color theory matters, name me one shoe company that thrives without ads. Name me one major clothing brand that thrives without a marketing department. Marketing is bigger and more in depth than ever before in human history. Theres jobs where your enture career is to study what pages ppl like on facebook.