Oh man, more Western bullshit along the divide et impera lines. This time with libertarian flavor.

It would just create more problems. The "Russian" half has a lot of people (I've heard somewhere in the region of 40%) who are not at all keen on being Russian, and I dare say a lot of people in the West don't want their country split up. I suspect if it is violence may be provoked.

Actually, the country is divided already. redhouse is suggesting to let both sides rule as they want, so they don't get ruled by the opposition, which is a big deal there.

That's why I say: if they want it, sure. If they don't want it, hell no.

And if anything, Russia would do the impera part, so you're pretty off there I'd say.

That said, if they want to be one, please let them be one.

I think we should divide up the Netherlands. Give Germany the land provinces and Belgium the sea provinces. After all, the country is divided politically with the PvdA drawing strength from the land provinces and the VVD getting support from the sea provinces.

If we want that, sure. We don't want that though.

Also, the VVD is not particularly hated, perhaps a bit disliked, but I have no reason to confirm or deny that, in the land provinces, and presumably the same counts for PvdA. If anything, the land provinces don't like PVV I suppose, but really, we don't have any provinces that are radically in favour of any party in any sense. We're fairly neutral and happy with eachother.

Moreover, we disagree much more with Germany.
Also, is Germany allowed to annex anything? I don't know, but I imagine there's something like that in the peace treaty of WWII...

Conclusion: the political idea's are not that different between the provinces I'd say, and we definitely don't make a fuzz about it. After all, there's no way either of those parties is going to rule the country on it's own.

I'd say that in the Netherlands there is no real feeling of having to live under the rule of anyone. I suppose that's the case a bit more in USA since I've heard enough people complain about being ruled by Obama, but I might be wrong there.

The situation in Ukraine is quite the opposite of the spectrum though, as I understand it.
So I think they should be given the OPTION to divide their country, yes, IF THEY WANT IT.

Do you think they shouldn't get that OPTION? If you think they should, why are you arguing with me?

They do have that option. It involves them voting for a party that would push the issue, which as far as I can see no one has actually done.

What they did do was vote for a Russian leaning Ukrainian who seemed rather happy for Ukraine to remain Ukraine. He wasn't a particularly good leader, but that's democracy for you. Having a bunch of armed thugs force him out, on the other hand, is very much not democracy, and we should be instinctively against that sort of thing.

Then we agree.

Actually, during the last election the VVD took most of the land provinces beside Drenthe and two provinces bordering the seas, Friesland and Groningen, went to the PvdA.

Tell us again how there are no Russian troops in Ukraine lol.

Putin33, since you seem to have no clue about the Dutch political landscape, let alone about the sentiments of the populace about it, I suggest you refrain from mentioning it from now on so as to prevent making a fool of yourself again.

As already mentioned by steephie there isn't much of a provincial divide between the PvdA and the VVD. At best you could say that the PvdA does well in the larger cities, while the CDA does better in rural areas, with the VVD doing okay in both. There are many exceptions even to that though. Additionally the PVV is currently polling as the most popular party so it's rather insane that you included them from your misinformed divide. And finally, no one party comes even close to having a majority of the votes in any province or city.

where I said included I meant excluded.

@oscarjd74:
Are you also Dutch or just well-informed?

Both are rare around here, so kudos either way.

I'm both Dutch and well-informed. ;-)

Isn't that a pleonasm? :P

Dismantling Ukraine according to meaningless graphs is OK but proposing the same to the Netherlands according to similarly bullshit criteria is bad. I guess the fact local Dutch didn't understand Putin was being ironical means they are actually serious about carving Ukraine up. Why else attack made-up supporting trivia instead of the idea itself? Scary.

Alright ulytau, good to know that you are all about just making shit up. Your statement that the Dutch support dismantling Ukraine is again an example of that I guess.

If we would want it, it's not a crazy idea to split the Netherlands up at all. We could do it. Of course we could, it's a democracy.

If the people in Ukraine want to be split in 2, why the hell not? I don't say they do, but IF they do...

We know Putin33 was joking, but he was using it as an argument as well. We're just pointing out why it's not the same thing.

Oh shit, it's the Dutch krellin, only less funny. Go away, oscarjd74.

Pro tip: next time you call someone less funny, try doing so in a humorous way. Otherwise it just looks like the lamest troll ever.

I don't understand why everyone insists to disagree with me while they seem to share my opinion.

Do you or do you not think that the people themselves should choose what they want?
If you do, happy we came to agreement, just a bit weird that it took a while.

If you talk to me, we were never in disagreement. Of course Ukrainians can choose to dissolve Ukraine by electing representatives who plan to do that, like citizens in any democratic country. It is just a practically moot point though as separatists never won any popular support for their plans in Ukrainian elections. Dividing Ukraine has no democratic legitimacy, the only way to do it is by armed thugs like is happening now. I'm pretty much repeating Octavious here.

If you talk to Dutch krellin, then the crucial part of krellin persona is to lack reading comprehension, so he cannot really agree with you since he doesn't really read what you are writing in the first place.

There are Russian boots on the ground in Crimea and there violent fascist protesters (a minority) assaulting government forces as well. There won't be a split the people chose because the people are not being heard. Only a violent minority and government forces.

@oscar - I think for the first time there may be a language issue.

"Dismantling Ukraine according to meaningless graphs is OK" - This was what steephie proposed.

" but proposing the same to the Netherlands according to similarly bullshit criteria is bad." - This is what Putin 33 proposed.

"I guess the fact local Dutch didn't understand Putin was being ironical means they are actually serious about carving Ukraine up." - Local dutch means you and steephie, not all the dutch people. Local refers to on this forum/site. Putin is referring to Putin33 who was being his usual sarcastic ass. Putin doesn't know how to respond without vitriol most of the time. Personal attacks are just his way. They just aren't filled with cursing like krellins.

"Why else attack made-up supporting trivia instead of the idea itself? Scary. " - He was pointing out you and steephie didn't get that Putim was going to am extreme and making ahit up to rile you up.

So uly, who is also not a native English speaker, was backing you up in a way, while pointing out that you should have realized Putin is who uses reduction ad absurdum to make his point.

So the Dutch are outraged when foreigners propose dividing their country according to ill-informed criteria? What, so you guys don't like it when people mess with your country but you have no problem 'hypothesizing' about carving up others?

I wish I could say your nauseating hypocrisy wasn't predictable.

I have merely commented on Putin33's ill-informed statements about Dutch politics and I have not said a thing about carving Ukraine up. Yet Putin33, Draugnar and ulymoron have concluded from this that I support carving Ukraine up, which I don't btw.

There's no language issue here. Just three idiots making shit up.

Go away

That was @Putin

As for my being 'ill-informed'.

Here's an electoral map.

http://www.nrc.nl/provinciale-statenverkiezingen-2011/

PvdA strongholds are in the industrial land provinces of the northeast. VVD is strong all along the sea provinces. CDA has strength in the rural central/southeast. PVV lacks regional support aside from Limburg.