Cue the Christians and anthropocentric conservatives applauding this action though in 3....2....1....

"anyone who kills it should be executed (I'm normally against capital punishment, but not for killing endangered species)"

I hope that's hyperbole. Animals < humans. Killing endangered species is fucked up and unsporting but it doesn't warrant the death penalty.

"Killing endangered species is fucked up and unsporting but it doesn't warrant the death penalty."

"Animals < humans."

Wrong.

"Killing endangered species is fucked up and unsporting but it doesn't warrant the death penalty."

Yes it does. An extinct species doesn't come back to life. It's a crime against an entire species, its history, and its contribution to the ecosystem.

'Animals < humans' by what measure, is it per-chance a human measure? Just wondering... FYI human ⊂ animals

"I'm normally against capital punishment, but not for killing endangered species"

Yeah, execute a person for shooting rhino, but don't execute a person who murders fifty prostitutes. Makes sense.


As for this idea, it seems like a pretty good one. The article says removing old bulls makes it easier for more rhinos to be born, so there probably should be some culling of them anyhow to encourage population growth. Why not get a million dollars for conservation efforts at the same time?

"...but don't execute a person who murders fifty prostitutes." unless they're the last prostitutes of their species...

And yeah, i think that conservation efforts have largely failed and that more money can help. Working with hunters instead of against them seems likely to save more animals - hopefully - and 'why not just donate the money', i suspect you'll find the people who care are already donating the money...

"As for this idea, it seems like a pretty good one"

So predictable it's sad.

"The article says removing old bulls makes it easier for more rhinos to be born"

The people selling permits to kill the bulls are saying this. Not the people who actually want to save the rhinos.

Nice to see Putin trumpeting the virtues of capital punishment. We'll make a right winger out of him yet!

Not surprisingly I completely agree with Putin (perhaps with a slightly different perspective). The value of an animal is a function of how humans view them. The black rhino is rare and magnificent, and as such has a huge value for all of mankind. Killing such a creature should be a crime punishable by the death penalty, as killing such a creature is in effect a crime against every single human on the planet.

But you're killing an old male that has already reproduced and getting a million dollars to help conservation efforts. How many armed guards do you think the park can hire with that kind of money to ward off poachers? Is it more important for one old rhino to live than for many more to be safer?

"The black rhino is rare and magnificent, and as such has a huge value for all of mankind."

What, exactly is the benefit?

From where does the problem of poaching come from? From the notion that selling the tusks of these rhinos is profitable. Having some rich bored Texan come and bring home a trophy to sell on the black market just increases incentives for poaching. It's completely counterproductive no matter how much the exotic animals trade wants to spin this.

I still find it amazing that you people are against executing serial killers but are for executing someone who shoots a rhino. It's sickening.

@ Invictus

If you have established the principle that the rhino is protected by law and executing such a creature is a crime worthy of great punishment, you have to apply the law equally. To allow one to be shot for money after doing so threatens the very bedrock of justice.

In my view such legal protection would be worth far more than the donation discussed. You also threaten future donations from those who would find such practices disgusting, which make up the majority of those who donate to this sort of cause.

You're sickening. You think all other life should suffer the consequences of the human desire to consume as much as possible.

"From where does the problem of poaching come from? From the notion that selling the tusks of these rhinos is profitable. Having some rich bored Texan come and bring home a trophy to sell on the black market just increases incentives for poaching."

What? Rhino horns are used in stupid traditional Chinese medicine, that's why they're poached. The rich guy who shoots this rhino probably wants the head on his wall. And even if he were going to grind it all up, the million dollars would go to stopping poachers, saving many many more rhinos.

What's really going on here, Putin33, is that you're against the idea of hunting full stop. That's fine, but be honest about it. Well, it would be fine if you weren't calling for the execution of hunters, but I mean that being opposed to hunting is a legitimate position for one to hold.

@ Onar

You have never seen a rhino, whale, even a deer, and had your heart stirred by the sight? You have never felt a sense of loss when something leaves this earth forever?

If not I pity you. If yes, you know their benefit.

"If you have established the principle that the rhino is protected by law and executing such a creature is a crime worthy of great punishment, you have to apply the law equally. To allow one to be shot for money after doing so threatens the very bedrock of justice."

Killing a human for killing a non-human goes against the very bedrock of justice. Where capital punishment lives on in America, it's only for first-degree murder, which is a very specific and blameworthy category.

Why am I even dignifying this position with a discussion? You people are nuts.

"You're sickening. You think all other life should suffer the consequences of the human desire to consume as much as possible."

You want to execute someone for shooting a rhino, but not for murdering fifty humans. Now, it would be one thing if you were against all capital punishment. That's perfectly acceptable position. But yours elevates the value of non-human life above that of human life, and that's revolting. Utter, utterly revolting.

"And even if he were going to grind it all up, the million dollars would go to stopping poachers, saving many many more rhinos."

You keep repeating this ignoring the fact that they can give the money without the murder of a rhino. You're presenting a false dichotomy.

"Rhino horns are used in stupid traditional Chinese medicine, that's why they're poached. "

And the hunters could promptly sell the horn to the Chinese medicine trade, so what is your point? Your putting a rhinocerous carcass out there on the market, you're increasing incentives to poach.

" the million dollars would go to stopping poachers, saving many many more rhinos."

Not as much as executing poachers would.

"What's really going on here, Putin33, is that you're against the idea of hunting full stop. That's fine, but be honest about it."

I don't see the relevance. Whether I'm against hunting has nothing to do with why I think murdering rhinos should be a capital crime. I don't think other forms of hunting warrant such a punishment, although I think hunting as sport is sadism.

@Invictus - You are wrong about the rhino tusk only being poached for Chinese medicine. There is a huge black market in rhino and elephant ivory as well as whale bone for carving purposes. Look up scrimshaw, or better yet I'll give you the link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrimshaw

"But yours elevates the value of non-human life above that of human life, and that's revolting. Utter, utterly revolting."

Rhinos are in danger of being eliminated forever, and some sub-species of them have been. Humans are in no such danger, and you want us to all produce more humans and threaten more animals with extinction as a consequence. I'm not going to listen to lectures about morality and what is 'sickening' from someone like you.

That's what you come into the thread with when people are talking about executing humans for shooting rhinos?

"Rhinos are in danger of being eliminated forever, and some sub-species of them have been. Humans are in no such danger, and you want us to all produce more humans and threaten more animals with extinction as a consequence."

So a human life has less value than a rhino's? You're straight-up evil. Just when I think you can't hold any more monstrous views, another pops up.

'You keep repeating this ignoring the fact that they can give the money without the murder of a rhino. You're presenting a false dichotomy.'

I didn't ignore it, i specifically addressed that exact point.


'Why am I even dignifying this position with a discussion? You people are nuts.' - good don't give the extremists more time, talk with the moderates!

@invictus 'But yours elevates the value of non-human life above that of human life, and that's revolting. Utter, utterly revolting.'

I actually don't find this even close to revolting, but i am against capital punishment for any crime. So at least i don't fit there. That said, how can i support the killing of any animal while rejecting the killing of any human?

I don't elevate humans above animals, but even when considering humans equal to animals, if YOU support capital punishments for humans then it is equality to call for capital punishment for the crime of premeditated murder of any animal.

"You have never seen a rhino, whale, even a deer, and had your heart stirred by the sight? You have never felt a sense of loss when something leaves this earth forever?"

So... petty sentimentality.

Well, I agree with them in spirit, if not in practice. And it's not like they make the laws. No one is going to make a law that someone who kills an endangered species get the death penalty. Hell, you don't even get that for killing a bald eagle and that's the US's official bird.

But quite simply, life in prison... That seams reasonable for the willful and intentional killing of a healthy representative of an endangered species. That protects vets who put one down because it is suffering and will die a slow painful death as it is (hardest thing I have ever done is put a dog to sleep, but it was better than watching them suffer).

I certainly hope planet raping slobs like you think I'm evil. A badge of honor.

@Onar if sentiment means nothing to you (and there are those to whom life has no value other than sentiment) then biodiversity in our environment is something upon which human life depends.

Massive collapses of ecologies have been seen, complex diverse collections of life forms (not just animals) and human are a part of this system, relying on it to survive and be comfortable.

"So... petty sentimentality."

What is your value to the planet?