Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[rdrivera2005]

bozo you have 30 minutes to vote someone

What was the consequence of not voting in 30 minutes?

Sadly nothinh

Or you might get shot..

[rdrivera2005]

The scum already know more than town about what town roles exist. We can prevent them from using this to their advantage if we claim our roles.

Wait... you're telling me, that right now the Mafia knows more about which Town roles exist, (Which should all be in the OP) and that claiming our roles will negate this advantage (despite the fact they have fake claims available [which I'm really not sure what that is/ how it works entirely] to only add confusion into a mass claim while getting information from Town). Put me on the opposed list.

guys really? if noone commented on this im officially loosing faith in all your bulkshit radars

Yep, these post ring some alarm bells.

[bozotheclown]

The mods gave me dugong bcuz I'm SE Asian

##Vote NoLynch

Have you talked to the other mason yet?

[Vecna]

would I think it helpfull to know exactly who to target for the roleblock, power thief and nightkill every night?

Why yes, I would, as scum.

Itd be absolutely trivial to only have to worry about lynches and completely remove the town benefit if all our roles with the knowledge of who has what.

Knowing who has what power allows scum to counter our powers exactly.

We wont have any tools to catch them in their lies.

The only benefits youve mentioned are that it "locks them in their claim". We achieve the same benefit if we just ignore roleclaims and lynch whoever is scummy.

Let scum worry about having to find our roles that can create clears and guilties and dodging our protectives. massclaim results in zero failed nightkills, zero help from prs.

and all because youre afraid of people claiming a role last minute? just ignore it and lynch them.

If scum wanna claim fake results, let them. Well deal with it on a case per case basis and analyze people their reactions to it like we always do.

This plan has very little benefits that cant be gained otherwise, and the downsides to town are enormous. It effectively transforms us all into vt's - some with negative utility.

[rdrivera2005]

I actually considered suggesting this myself. I haven't thought through how much we would be giving away though because I only all skimmed the roles. I would love to hear opinions on this from everyone but especially from Vecna and bozo.

the setup doesnt give us the tools to catch the lies. it mostly gives us tools to avoid the nightkills.

giving scum the info lets them kill the investigatives while easily dodging all out usefull abilities.

I think you are just looking at the negatives of mass claiming without considering all of the benefits of locking each scum into a fake claimed role. If you were mafia, would you think mass claiming roles would be helpful?

I can't see any real benefit on massclaiming.
I believe Mafia fake roles are probably roles that can't be disproved (it's not random), maybe all VT, so I can't see why they will have problems claiming it and this would even justify why they aren't nightkilled.

[rdrivera2005]

would I think it helpfull to know exactly who to target for the roleblock, power thief and nightkill every night?

Why yes, I would, as scum.

Itd be absolutely trivial to only have to worry about lynches and completely remove the town benefit if all our roles with the knowledge of who has what.

Knowing who has what power allows scum to counter our powers exactly.

We wont have any tools to catch them in their lies.

The only benefits youve mentioned are that it "locks them in their claim". We achieve the same benefit if we just ignore roleclaims and lynch whoever is scummy.

Let scum worry about having to find our roles that can create clears and guilties and dodging our protectives. massclaim results in zero failed nightkills, zero help from prs.

and all because youre afraid of people claiming a role last minute? just ignore it and lynch them.

If scum wanna claim fake results, let them. Well deal with it on a case per case basis and analyze people their reactions to it like we always do.

This plan has very little benefits that cant be gained otherwise, and the downsides to town are enormous. It effectively transforms us all into vt's - some with negative utility.

Exactly. Also give good targets for the Item Thief or force town roles to use it D1.

[bozotheclown]

would I think it helpfull to know exactly who to target for the roleblock, power thief and nightkill every night?

Why yes, I would, as scum.

Itd be absolutely trivial to only have to worry about lynches and completely remove the town benefit if all our roles with the knowledge of who has what.

Knowing who has what power allows scum to counter our powers exactly.

We wont have any tools to catch them in their lies.

The only benefits youve mentioned are that it "locks them in their claim". We achieve the same benefit if we just ignore roleclaims and lynch whoever is scummy.

Let scum worry about having to find our roles that can create clears and guilties and dodging our protectives. massclaim results in zero failed nightkills, zero help from prs.

and all because youre afraid of people claiming a role last minute? just ignore it and lynch them.

If scum wanna claim fake results, let them. Well deal with it on a case per case basis and analyze people their reactions to it like we always do.

This plan has very little benefits that cant be gained otherwise, and the downsides to town are enormous. It effectively transforms us all into vt's - some with negative utility.

Locking the scum into fake roles has more benefits than preventing them from claiming roles to avoid being lynched, it also forces them to fake any powers of their fake role.

[EspressoPatronum]

EspressoPatronum
Day-1 44:04
page 7 / orig
↑Foxcastle: "Sigh. This makes me think you're doing it to protect your scum meta.

Emc has to start creating a vote record that ca..."

Not a bad idea. Maybe it'll get him to put a vote on someone else.

##VOTE EMC

and now folks, we may observe two wolves fucking.

EspressoPatronum
Day-1 43:42
page 8 / orig
↑xorxes: "Second red flag for brainbomb."
In the context of brainbomb reacting to a serious post made in RVS, it's NAI to me.

Can you expand on your first red flag re: brain's lack of an early vote?

Xorxes straight up never responded to this
Espresso doesnt care lol

If you have the time, you should skim my m1007 and m46 games to get a better read on my playstyle. It may help you avoid digging yourself into a scum!EP tunnel.

On a skim of my ISO in those games, three things should stand out with regard to this game:
1. I like these sorts of questions. Asking xorxes to clarify his stance helps town if he's town + helps town if he's scum. I picked up the style from teacon in m1007.
2. I have a pretty consistent stance on policy voting. I had a stronger stance on playstyle policy votes in m1007, but I've come around to lurker votes.
3. I'm not afraid to agree with people. Even if Fox turns out to be scum, his logic behind the EMC vote was sound.

[EspressoPatronum]

Does anyone other than bozo still agree with the massclaim idea? A lot of the discussion on it just looks like people patting themselves on the back for pointing out that it's a bad idea.

[bozotheclown]

the setup doesnt give us the tools to catch the lies. it mostly gives us tools to avoid the nightkills.

giving scum the info lets them kill the investigatives while easily dodging all out usefull abilities.

I think you are just looking at the negatives of mass claiming without considering all of the benefits of locking each scum into a fake claimed role. If you were mafia, would you think mass claiming roles would be helpful?

I can't see any real benefit on massclaiming.
I believe Mafia fake roles are probably roles that can't be disproved (it's not random), maybe all VT, so I can't see why they will have problems claiming it and this would even justify why they aren't nightkilled.

Why do you think the town roles assignments were not random?

[bozotheclown]

Does anyone other than bozo still agree with the massclaim idea? A lot of the discussion on it just looks like people patting themselves on the back for pointing out that it's a bad idea.

So far only xorxes has indicated he might support it, but a number of players seem to be ignoring the idea.

[EspressoPatronum]

Does anyone other than bozo still agree with the massclaim idea? A lot of the discussion on it just looks like people patting themselves on the back for pointing out that it's a bad idea.

So far only xorxes has indicated he might support it, but a number of players seem to be ignoring the idea.

Could you make a list of people who (a) are active, and (b) ignored the idea? If you don't get the chance, I'll make the list tonight.

I wouldn't be surprised if some scum waited to get a read on the room before weighing in.

[damo666]

I think you are just looking at the negatives of mass claiming without considering all of the benefits of locking each scum into a fake claimed role. If you were mafia, would you think mass claiming roles would be helpful?

I can't see any real benefit on massclaiming.
I believe Mafia fake roles are probably roles that can't be disproved (it's not random), maybe all VT, so I can't see why they will have problems claiming it and this would even justify why they aren't nightkilled.

Why do you think the town roles assignments were not random?

The OP says 'selected from', does not say randomly. I doubt it's random. For example if you did it randomly you might get a solo Mason, pretty pointless.

[Percy Williams]

As much as you frequently make me laugh out loud, I would argue that your voluminous shitposting is something that you could avoid this game to help town solve. I realize it's probably a meta play on your part and you won't comply, but as worcej suggested, we need to be focused on solving, and I think a lot of your posts, even already in this game, are little incendiary shots that fuel emotions and not reason.

It would also be beneficial not to pointlessly drive up the page count so we can more easily analyze throughout the game.

This is a really Towny post from foodcoats, and while I normally love the long joke phase, I'm inclined to agree with him on this one. I'll do my best to keep my shining personality down.

This is such a strange post on p4. the food coat pants post has nothibg specifically towny about it whatsoever. Its the typical type of post easily created by scum to look concerned about town wellbeing. and why singke out that forgettable post to begin with? after all the fox and worcej drivel that dominated those pages...

If it had been A more veteran player than this is easy to fake, but coming from a new player, I think this is an earnest post, as a new player going through pages and pages of beautiful spam can be rather daunting. A mafia foodcoats wouldn't care because he doesn't have to solve, and is in no way expected to post something like this.

[Vecna]

would I think it helpfull to know exactly who to target for the roleblock, power thief and nightkill every night?

Why yes, I would, as scum.

Itd be absolutely trivial to only have to worry about lynches and completely remove the town benefit if all our roles with the knowledge of who has what.

Knowing who has what power allows scum to counter our powers exactly.

We wont have any tools to catch them in their lies.

The only benefits youve mentioned are that it "locks them in their claim". We achieve the same benefit if we just ignore roleclaims and lynch whoever is scummy.

Let scum worry about having to find our roles that can create clears and guilties and dodging our protectives. massclaim results in zero failed nightkills, zero help from prs.

and all because youre afraid of people claiming a role last minute? just ignore it and lynch them.

If scum wanna claim fake results, let them. Well deal with it on a case per case basis and analyze people their reactions to it like we always do.

This plan has very little benefits that cant be gained otherwise, and the downsides to town are enormous. It effectively transforms us all into vt's - some with negative utility.

Locking the scum into fake roles has more benefits than preventing them from claiming roles to avoid being lynched, it also forces them to fake any powers of their fake role.

The only one of those which isnt easily faked in a meaningfull way is the vig. The rest is simply "Oh it got stolen, I got roleblocked, I used it on myself to stop scum from killing me" or we simply cannot tell if it was used at all.

[Percy Williams]

would I think it helpfull to know exactly who to target for the roleblock, power thief and nightkill every night?

Why yes, I would, as scum.

Itd be absolutely trivial to only have to worry about lynches and completely remove the town benefit if all our roles with the knowledge of who has what.

Knowing who has what power allows scum to counter our powers exactly.

We wont have any tools to catch them in their lies.

The only benefits youve mentioned are that it "locks them in their claim". We achieve the same benefit if we just ignore roleclaims and lynch whoever is scummy.

Let scum worry about having to find our roles that can create clears and guilties and dodging our protectives. massclaim results in zero failed nightkills, zero help from prs.

and all because youre afraid of people claiming a role last minute? just ignore it and lynch them.

If scum wanna claim fake results, let them. Well deal with it on a case per case basis and analyze people their reactions to it like we always do.

This plan has very little benefits that cant be gained otherwise, and the downsides to town are enormous. It effectively transforms us all into vt's - some with negative utility.

Locking the scum into fake roles has more benefits than preventing them from claiming roles to avoid being lynched, it also forces them to fake any powers of their fake role.

But there are 11 roles they can take with No Risk of being caught, and we only catch one on the chance they have to take an unfakeable role. And what stops a two mafia from intentionally claiming the same fake role. We would lynch one and conclude the other is Town, and now we have a scum as confirmed Town. And this is all presuming everyone reveals their roles. I am against a mass claim at this point.

[bozotheclown]

would I think it helpfull to know exactly who to target for the roleblock, power thief and nightkill every night?

Why yes, I would, as scum.

Itd be absolutely trivial to only have to worry about lynches and completely remove the town benefit if all our roles with the knowledge of who has what.

Knowing who has what power allows scum to counter our powers exactly.

We wont have any tools to catch them in their lies.

The only benefits youve mentioned are that it "locks them in their claim". We achieve the same benefit if we just ignore roleclaims and lynch whoever is scummy.

Let scum worry about having to find our roles that can create clears and guilties and dodging our protectives. massclaim results in zero failed nightkills, zero help from prs.

and all because youre afraid of people claiming a role last minute? just ignore it and lynch them.

If scum wanna claim fake results, let them. Well deal with it on a case per case basis and analyze people their reactions to it like we always do.

This plan has very little benefits that cant be gained otherwise, and the downsides to town are enormous. It effectively transforms us all into vt's - some with negative utility.

Locking the scum into fake roles has more benefits than preventing them from claiming roles to avoid being lynched, it also forces them to fake any powers of their fake role.

But there are 11 roles they can take with No Risk of being caught, and we only catch one on the chance they have to take an unfakeable role. And what stops a two mafia from intentionally claiming the same fake role. We would lynch one and conclude the other is Town, and now we have a scum as confirmed Town. And this is all presuming everyone reveals their roles. I am against a mass claim at this point.

The mafia do not want to be counterclaiming town or each other.

[bozotheclown]

I can't see any real benefit on massclaiming.
I believe Mafia fake roles are probably roles that can't be disproved (it's not random), maybe all VT, so I can't see why they will have problems claiming it and this would even justify why they aren't nightkilled.

Why do you think the town roles assignments were not random?

The OP says 'selected from', does not say randomly. I doubt it's random. For example if you did it randomly you might get a solo Mason, pretty pointless.

Why not random with a correction for the masons if necessary?

[bozotheclown]

I am OK with voting for either bo_sox or MoscowFleet for posting just to get off the non-poster list.

[bozotheclown]

##VOTE bo_sox