M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

[Percy Williams]

I thought she would come back the last hour of phase. She came back six hours early. I am surprised. Wow. But it changes nothing she is ultra scum.

Stop. Playing. Mafia. If. You're. Never. Willing. To. Change. Your. Shit. Reads. Bye.

You are proven scum it's why you avoided the thread for two days. You may as well concede. It's over for you.

I want to say I checked the mafia bot, ooof about Durga, I was so sure we had a scum caught. Reading through her final posts as she can see she is about to die, some make her look better, and some make me think she's scum until I realize I know and she's not. None of my scum read on her was from her attendance or lack of it, and it's a little childish/possibly scum indicative to use someone's absence as significant scum evidence, and then we they appear just say "I don't care, you're still scum.

[xorxes]

I think damo does not need to resort to that as scum.

Nobody needs to resort to that. What has that got to do with it?

It matters because he would not do it for no reason, and he had no reason to do it. Is it your theory that damo did not know what write about me, so he reread the previous game with the intention of finding a read of me to copy?

I don't have any theory about it, it doesn't really matter why he did it. All that matters is that he would not have done it as town.

I can speculate: I doubt he went and reread the game, more likely he just remembered it because that reads list was done by me in answer to a question from him, and he commented favorably after I posted it. Maybe he found that read particularly inspired, maybe that read is what convinced him that I was town and so he wanted to replicate that feeling in others, who knows. Maybe he remembered it because it was worded in an unusual way.

I have a question for you:

Do you think teacon is being genuine when he accuses me of using a very crude logical fallacy against him? i.e. do you think he really believes I was making the argument he claims I was making?

[teacon7]

Xorx are you actually going to respond to the critique of your logic, or simply shade me for mentioning it by saying: "xorx is never illogical" ?

That's suspect. If your case holds water, then defend it, don't just appeal to your own character.

Like, if you disagree with my assessment of your logic, even if it's a flaw in a supporting point, then let's address that. sheesh. If you're town, you can't possibly be right 100% of the time about 100% of the reasoning.

[teacon7]

I'm here for a bit to read up and reply. I'll check the latest page. AMA.

[xorxes]

Xorx are you actually going to respond to the critique of your logic, or simply shade me for mentioning it by saying: "xorx is never illogical" ?

I thought I did respond. What part did I leave out?

That's suspect. If your case holds water, then defend it, don't just appeal to your own character.

I'm afraid you will need to be more explicit as I don't get what you want me to explain.

Like, if you disagree with my assessment of your logic, even if it's a flaw in a supporting point, then let's address that. sheesh. If you're town, you can't possibly be right 100% of the time about 100% of the reasoning.

Sure, tell me what you want me to (re)address.

[teacon7]

hmk i'll get to it when I'm catching up.

is Flav always like this? how many games has he played?

[Percy Williams]

What info does my lynch reveal @Percy?

I'm not just voting for Teacon for self preservation though. If that was the case I would say that, and obviously it factors into it. But I agree with xorx here.

Also answering Bozo here, but with the knowledge Durga is regrettably town. I suspected her for the omgus attack on ND, the avoidance of voting on scum Damo Godfather, and the lack of specific content. If we had caught a scum in Durga then there was a lot of information available in her associations with other players Ex. I would be an obvious town, As I was her distraction wagon. We could also reasonably assume ND was town, as she went after him almost immediately. Your choice, Bozo, has less interactions that would shed light on the scum team. This post is as far as I got, I'll catch up and post reads later today.

[xorxes]

hmk i'll get to it when I'm catching up.

is Flav always like this? how many games has he played?

He was scum with bozo, yavu and me last game, I think that was his first online game and this would be his second one. I guess he will have to wait for the next one for his first town experience.

Last game he was more "I'm so innocent I don't know what I'm doing" than this one, but he already knows he can't get away with that twice in a row.

[teacon7]

Do you think he's trying to buddy or sheep you?

[ND]

Vashta, Vapor/Flav, EMC, Teacon, Xorxes
(2 here are scum)

Rest are town

[e.m.c^42]

General thoughts, not necessarily reads but just thoughts:

Firstly, what sticks out the most is how the majority of what I've missed is xorxes vs teacon, which started when teacon came back a bit before eon. I don't know teacon's usual style, + he hasn't played for awhile (so he's essentially a blank slate for meta), but he does remind me of Claesar, lol. Not sure if it's the slight (intentional or unintentional) condescension from the logical fallacy thing, (kinda like Clae and math with his certainty in a town loss), but yeah. However, it could be a personality thing rather than something alignment indicative - but I still don't really like how he and xorxes took over the thread lol, despite his claims of "not wanting to tunnel".

And the thought that xorxes would try so hard to mislead town...in order to mislead NK from noob!scum means that he thinks (or thought) that the newbies were scum?

Interestingly, I don't think I saw him actually scumread/go after any of the new people (except maybe me, but dunno if I count as "noob" anymore).

(going to break this up into parts, prolly will sleep and get rest tomorrow)

[ND]

Deep thoughts bro deep thoughts

[EspressoPatronum]

General thoughts, not necessarily reads but just thoughts:

Firstly, what sticks out the most is how the majority of what I've missed is xorxes vs teacon, which started when teacon came back a bit before eon. I don't know teacon's usual style, + he hasn't played for awhile (so he's essentially a blank slate for meta), but he does remind me of Claesar, lol. Not sure if it's the slight (intentional or unintentional) condescension from the logical fallacy thing, (kinda like Clae and math with his certainty in a town loss), but yeah. However, it could be a personality thing rather than something alignment indicative - but I still don't really like how he and xorxes took over the thread lol, despite his claims of "not wanting to tunnel".

And the thought that xorxes would try so hard to mislead town...in order to mislead NK from noob!scum means that he thinks (or thought) that the newbies were scum?

Interestingly, I don't think I saw him actually scumread/go after any of the new people (except maybe me, but dunno if I count as "noob" anymore).

(going to break this up into parts, prolly will sleep and get rest tomorrow)

I think you're right. He only started putting my name up once I said he was scum. Am on mobile and heading to sleep now, but I can find the page(s) tomorrow if you guys are interested.

[FlaviusAetius]

Do you think he's trying to buddy or sheep you?

Ive mentioned my points of why I think you are scum, you haven't addressed one. Please start addressing before I start reposting. Xorxes also thinking you are scum just confirms you more solidly as a scum.

[e.m.c^42]

Reasons I didn't really like the Durga lynch was partially cuz of what felt like the main pushing point on her - that her EOD actions were scummy. Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't really see how particularly wanting different wagons on day 1 was scummy? Especially when done so obviously/openly...unless it was wifom. So a bit ew at the people who used it as a main driving device.

Also, the fact that Damo seemed "obviously scummy" doesn't really seem to be true either lol (Pretty sure it was Flavius who said that - to whom I say, you had the benefit of an outside perspective, and in hindsight at boot. So no, not really).

The fact that he copied reads, or used one that was really similar to a past one isn't necessarily alignment indicative, just extremely lazy (or he's been rereading past games, which is rather unlikely). iirc Darg did something similar when he was the alien cop and got quite literally blasted for it lmao. In hindsight, he was probably trying to draw scan, but happily it worked too well and failed.

(also no offence damo, if you're still reading), but generally in the first few days he gives off a vibe of being mostly useless too.

[FlaviusAetius]

Also, the fact that Damo seemed "obviously scummy" doesn't really seem to be true either lol (Pretty sure it was Flavius who said that - to whom I say, you had the benefit of an outside perspective, and in hindsight at boot. So no, not really).

(also no offence damo, if you're still reading), but generally in the first few days he gives off a vibe of being mostly useless too.

There it is.
I was in the last game, you GMed the last game.
I spectated the first 20 pages of this game until I fell off(then reread from there on after I got tapped to replace vapor)
We both know how damo played; passive, not talking etc etc.
Yet in this game he comes out of the gate swinging.
It was pretty clear what he was from his first few posts, you even pointed it out in the quote above.

[teacon7]

I don't know teacon's usual style, + he hasn't played for awhile (so he's essentially a blank slate for meta),

I play pretty lurky when I'm scum. I won m22 as sleeper cell scum by leaving TrPrado and Jamiet tunneled on each other until mylo. I got scumread for the next several games for it. I'm rather disappointed in this game, that durga, ND, Moscow, and Xorxes have failed to mention this.

Not sure if it's the slight (intentional or unintentional) condescension from the logical fallacy thing,

I really don't mean to sound condescending. I did see invalid logic in the case. Xorx is also trying to lynch me so I am frustrated.

I still don't really like how he and xorxes took over the thread lol, despite his claims of "not wanting to tunnel".

I don't like that we took over the thread either. imo posting a lot is not an indication of tunneling so much as a willingness to drill down. I'm willing to consider a variety of scenarios.

And the thought that xorxes would try so hard to mislead town...in order to mislead NK from noob!scum means that he thinks (or thought) that the newbies were scum?

N1 I thought xorx was town, playing wifom chicken with what he thought were newbie scum. Bonus points for him if they were newbies, but to me durga looked suspicious to me EoD1 so I figured she'd be calling the shots. Either way, I shut up and let him act out a bad case to give him a chance BECAUSE I thought he was town. I even sent a message to the godthread that looks hilariously awful in hindsight.

I can see xorx trying this hard to mislead town is if he was backed into a corner. In my durga/xorx scenario, he bussed the gf for towncred, but didn't expect durga to be so widely scumread afterwards, so he'd feel cornered. Durga's flip is new data I'm still going to need to ruminate on.

Interestingly, I don't think I saw him actually scumread/go after any of the new people (except maybe me, but dunno if I count as "noob" anymore).

That's a really good point ... I wish I'd thought of that N1.
I have fallen prey to thinking everyone I didn't know is a newbie. But that's silly - I've been gone for like... 15 games? You're not newbies, you may have played more than I have.

[teacon7]

I think you're right. He only started putting my name up once I said he was scum. Am on mobile and heading to sleep now, but I can find the page(s) tomorrow if you guys are interested.

I'm interested to see that. Do it.

[teacon7]

Do you think he's trying to buddy or sheep you?

Ive mentioned my points of why I think you are scum, you haven't addressed one. Please start addressing before I start reposting. Xorxes also thinking you are scum just confirms you more solidly as a scum.

You just repeated what you thought of me. you didn't explain why.

[teacon7]

The fact that he (ed. note: damo) copied reads, or used one that was really similar to a past one isn't necessarily alignment indicative, just extremely lazy (or he's been rereading past games, which is rather unlikely). iirc Darg did something similar when he was the alien cop and got quite literally blasted for it lmao. In hindsight, he was probably trying to draw scan, but happily it worked too well and failed.

(also no offence damo, if you're still reading), but generally in the first few days he gives off a vibe of being mostly useless too.

THANK YOU

The list of people who noted that similar sounding reads are NAI:
teacon
moscow
bozo (iirc)
emc

The list of people who were - somehow - certain that damo's copied reads was scummy:
xorxes