Game of Thrones

General discussions that don't fit in other forums can go here.
Forum rules
Feel free to discuss any topics here. Please use the Politics sub-forum for political conversations. While most topics will be allowed please be sure to be respectful and follow our normal site rules at http://www.webdiplomacy.net/rules.php.
Message
Author
TrPrado
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 1135
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:22 pm
Location: OOOOOOKLAHOMA WHERE THE WIND COMES SWEEPING DOWN THE PLAIN
Karma: 409
Contact:

Re: Game of Thrones

#21 Post by TrPrado » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:14 pm

I was never a fan of the “Night King will win” ideas. It always felt like it was too easy writing wise.

Vaporwave
Posts: 2015
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:21 pm
Karma: 168

Re: Game of Thrones

#22 Post by Vaporwave » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:07 pm

Vecna wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:11 pm


What? Have you even been watching this show? Or are you just trolling? Missandei is smoking hot, and there are so many more gorgeous woman in this show.
No, I haven't. I keep seeing pictures everywhere and that woman always stood out to me. I also heard season 1 was the best

Might watch 1st episode because of the hype and because people are obsessed with it.

TrPrado
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 1135
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:22 pm
Location: OOOOOOKLAHOMA WHERE THE WIND COMES SWEEPING DOWN THE PLAIN
Karma: 409
Contact:

Re: Game of Thrones

#23 Post by TrPrado » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:17 pm

Season 1 is not the best. For me it's a tie between 3 and 4, immediately followed by season 2. Then season 1.

goldfinger0303
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:17 pm
Karma: 181

Re: Game of Thrones

#24 Post by goldfinger0303 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:31 am

At the very least, it’s an incredibly well shot and scored episode from a technician stanpaoint, so even if the plot is garbage - it’s some of the most inpressive and immersive garbage out there
This is the best assessment of the episode. The scenes were gorgeous. Excellent cinematics, the overall mood was good. It's just that the plot. Sucked.

What's Bran's purpose? Why is the godswood the place to put him for bait if they have to murder the entire garrison to get to him? Shouldn't bait for a trap be in a more...accessible location? Also, what was the trap? There was no trap. NK came after Jon and Dany when they were on their dragons and didn't go for Bran. So that whole plot point was hot garbage.

Another very fair criticism is that more people should be dead. Jon should be dead. He had a whole undead army rise around him, but the cut to him fighting a few seconds later shows that its a small loose circle around him, coming one at a time. Sam should be dead. Brienne should be dead. Jorah should've been dead in the opening salvo.

Which brings my biggest criticism. If you're going to have a battle episode, the battle plan should make sense. Battle of the Blackwater was excellent in this regard. Battle of the Bastards made sense (in the fact that Ramsay had a plan and executed it well. Jon.....different story). In the early seasons with Robb and Tywin, tactics and strategy mattered in battle. Now, it's like everyone forgot what those are. If you have an aerial advantage, you don't start the battle with those units grounded. You don't charge light horse into a wall of infantry without support. You don't keep your ranged artillery infront of your troops. You don't build a defensive ditch ***behind*** your troops. Why were the troops outside the walls at all? You have mountains of dragonglass, so create spiked ditches with dragonglass tips. We saw no ingenuity from Tyrion. No smart strategy at all. It just...was such a letdown.

There were elements that were beautiful and could have worked well had they been in a better plot. The Dothraki charging and the lights going out. Beautiful cinematography. But such a waste at the beginning. Have those horse kept in reserve to the side, charge in a flanking attack (as the defenders are getting beaten back elsewhere, to provide a glimmer of hope) and *then* get snuffed out. Or have the Dothraki protest and complain about waiting around and charge in on their own. They just could have worked that moment in so much better. And the whole episode was sprinkled with such moments that, if reframed, could have been much more impactful *and* made sense in the world.

Then there's killing the Night King. Him dying this episode was fine. Arya killing him was fine. Even Arya using the move to kill him that she did was fine. But....the unnecessary foreshadowing by Melisandre utterly spoiled it ahead of time and the *way* that it happened was upsetting. How did she sneak through an army of the undead *and* get past about a dozen other walkers? Why was so much emphasis placed on making her a special weapon if it broke like 2 minutes in? WHY DIDNT WE SEE ANY WALKERS FIGHT? Honestly that's what ticks me off the most. I wanted to see some walkers fight and die, and we didn't see any of it. It was just such an anticlimactic ending. I was half hoping everyone would be wiped out and a handful of survivors would escape on dragonback.

Because the biggest and absolute worst thing about this episode is that Cersei was right. Someone who is supposed to be one of the *worst* strategists in the 7 Kingdoms, who sabotages her own power with every move she makes, played it absolutely perfectly by leaving the 7 Kingdoms to their doom and sitting on her ass in King's Landing. Are you kidding me. Any plot that builds Cersei up and makes her look anything other than incompetent is a bad one.
2

Chaqa
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:33 pm
Karma: 287

Re: Game of Thrones

#25 Post by Chaqa » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:44 am

It felt underwhelming because most of the drama has been invented for the show. There is no Night King in the books, as far as we can tell, and therefore they had leeway to make shit up and it isn't good. There was a part of the after-episode where they basically said they decided three years ago that Arya would be the one to end the Night King, as it would be unexpected that the "hero" Jon didn't do it.

My gripes:
  • The lack of military strategy. Why did the Dothraki suicide charge? Why weren't the walls manned? Why was there no pitch over the walls to light the wights on fire?
  • They could have presented a little build-up for Arya. Have Theon see her in the trees or something, and have his sacrifice be what gives her the opening. This would make more events more meaningful.
  • WTF was Bran doing?
  • What happened to the supposed magic in Winterfell?
  • What was the Night King's motivation? Why is he here? There shouldn't be a "pure evil". Even Sauron wasn't mindless.
  • How did all the major characters survive being thrashed and attacked for what seemed like an hour? Tormund and Gendry standing in the open swinging and survive?
  • Where was Hot Pie?
I could go on, but there's no point. It was a spectacle, and technically/visually impressive, but the writing was lackluster outside of *most* character motivations being reasonable.
1

FlaviusAetius
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:15 am
Karma: 103

Re: Game of Thrones

#26 Post by FlaviusAetius » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:03 am

goldfinger0303 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:31 am
At the very least, it’s an incredibly well shot and scored episode from a technician stanpaoint, so even if the plot is garbage - it’s some of the most inpressive and immersive garbage out there
This is the best assessment of the episode. The scenes were gorgeous. Excellent cinematics, the overall mood was good. It's just that the plot. Sucked.

What's Bran's purpose? Why is the godswood the place to put him for bait if they have to murder the entire garrison to get to him? Shouldn't bait for a trap be in a more...accessible location? Also, what was the trap? There was no trap. NK came after Jon and Dany when they were on their dragons and didn't go for Bran. So that whole plot point was hot garbage.

Another very fair criticism is that more people should be dead. Jon should be dead. He had a whole undead army rise around him, but the cut to him fighting a few seconds later shows that its a small loose circle around him, coming one at a time. Sam should be dead. Brienne should be dead. Jorah should've been dead in the opening salvo.

Which brings my biggest criticism. If you're going to have a battle episode, the battle plan should make sense. Battle of the Blackwater was excellent in this regard. Battle of the Bastards made sense (in the fact that Ramsay had a plan and executed it well. Jon.....different story). In the early seasons with Robb and Tywin, tactics and strategy mattered in battle. Now, it's like everyone forgot what those are. If you have an aerial advantage, you don't start the battle with those units grounded. You don't charge light horse into a wall of infantry without support. You don't keep your ranged artillery infront of your troops. You don't build a defensive ditch ***behind*** your troops. Why were the troops outside the walls at all? You have mountains of dragonglass, so create spiked ditches with dragonglass tips. We saw no ingenuity from Tyrion. No smart strategy at all. It just...was such a letdown.

There were elements that were beautiful and could have worked well had they been in a better plot. The Dothraki charging and the lights going out. Beautiful cinematography. But such a waste at the beginning. Have those horse kept in reserve to the side, charge in a flanking attack (as the defenders are getting beaten back elsewhere, to provide a glimmer of hope) and *then* get snuffed out. Or have the Dothraki protest and complain about waiting around and charge in on their own. They just could have worked that moment in so much better. And the whole episode was sprinkled with such moments that, if reframed, could have been much more impactful *and* made sense in the world.

Then there's killing the Night King. Him dying this episode was fine. Arya killing him was fine. Even Arya using the move to kill him that she did was fine. But....the unnecessary foreshadowing by Melisandre utterly spoiled it ahead of time and the *way* that it happened was upsetting. How did she sneak through an army of the undead *and* get past about a dozen other walkers? Why was so much emphasis placed on making her a special weapon if it broke like 2 minutes in? WHY DIDNT WE SEE ANY WALKERS FIGHT? Honestly that's what ticks me off the most. I wanted to see some walkers fight and die, and we didn't see any of it. It was just such an anticlimactic ending. I was half hoping everyone would be wiped out and a handful of survivors would escape on dragonback.

Because the biggest and absolute worst thing about this episode is that Cersei was right. Someone who is supposed to be one of the *worst* strategists in the 7 Kingdoms, who sabotages her own power with every move she makes, played it absolutely perfectly by leaving the 7 Kingdoms to their doom and sitting on her ass in King's Landing. Are you kidding me. Any plot that builds Cersei up and makes her look anything other than incompetent is a bad one.
Here is what would of be legendary;
Dnearys sees Jon acting like a King during the battle, leading, inspiring people. She hears remarks of people saying he'd be a good King, while their on their dragons, Dnearys wants to be Queen so bad, she tries to kill Jon literally in the middle of the fight. It fails, and Jon ends up stabbing her, Jorah Mormont sees it. While this is going on, Sansa and Tyrion are about to kill each other via suicide. Brienne dies, and Podrick dies(heroic last stands)

Jaimie is so distraught he just fights with all his might, to try to save Sam, and he does.

Tormund dies(whats his point anymore)
Also Greyworm learns of Jon dying, and one of his soldiers asks what next, he tells them, let us learn first why...(he's usually more levelheaded)

But GREYWORM DIES DURING THE BATTLE
The next person incharge of the unsullied could be someone whose basically diehard dnearys supporter
Missandei is one too, and she's on a REVENGE PATH

So now its the North basically running away from the Dothraki AND Unsullied.
It then requires Cersei to save them all
Jaimie helps in some way, and is accepted back in Cersei's graces

Then Cersei decides she wants to liquidate those in the North, and resettle it(not too cold anymore, they dont like her anyways)

He gets emotional about them, and decides to kill Cersei right then and there.

Then Cersei's people basically go crazy as well(no one to take command of her forces, fierce loyalty)

The Golden Company is now up for hire, and Euron Greyjoy takes command and marries Sansa and they defeat the Golden Company

FlaviusAetius
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:15 am
Karma: 103

Re: Game of Thrones

#27 Post by FlaviusAetius » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:04 am

honestly, that's just a perfect plotline

TrPrado
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 1135
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:22 pm
Location: OOOOOOKLAHOMA WHERE THE WIND COMES SWEEPING DOWN THE PLAIN
Karma: 409
Contact:

Re: Game of Thrones

#28 Post by TrPrado » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:14 am

I'll disagree with gold on 2 points:

1) The White Walkers themselves rarely fight anyway, and they've known since Hardhome that the living are using weapons that can kill them, and since them dying would result in a portion of the army of the dead falling over, I kind of get them not partaking in the fight.

2) Cersei has pretty much been my favorite character since season 6.

goldfinger0303
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:17 pm
Karma: 181

Re: Game of Thrones

#29 Post by goldfinger0303 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:30 am

The Walkers have known since before Hardhome that they can be killed. Didn't stop them at Hardhome. My point is, if they don't fight they have no purpose. What's big and scary about something that never comes for you? If they're literally just generals sitting in the back, then they're something you've built up for years and years and just...never used and let be shattered into dust. If you build up a big bad for 8 seasons and let them all be killed off in a sneaky stabby attack, that is criminal. Why did they all die when the Night King died, btw? Seems important.

Also, you're a terrible person for only liking Cersei since season 6. Seasons 1-4 were vintage Cersei. She actually became extremely dull season 7. She became a trope rather than an actual intelligible being.

TrPrado
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 1135
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:22 pm
Location: OOOOOOKLAHOMA WHERE THE WIND COMES SWEEPING DOWN THE PLAIN
Karma: 409
Contact:

Re: Game of Thrones

#30 Post by TrPrado » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:34 am

I always liked Cersei, but she became fave season 6

FlaviusAetius
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:15 am
Karma: 103

Re: Game of Thrones

#31 Post by FlaviusAetius » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:40 am

goldfinger0303 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:30 am
The Walkers have known since before Hardhome that they can be killed. Didn't stop them at Hardhome. My point is, if they don't fight they have no purpose. What's big and scary about something that never comes for you? If they're literally just generals sitting in the back, then they're something you've built up for years and years and just...never used and let be shattered into dust. If you build up a big bad for 8 seasons and let them all be killed off in a sneaky stabby attack, that is criminal. Why did they all die when the Night King died, btw? Seems important.

Also, you're a terrible person for only liking Cersei since season 6. Seasons 1-4 were vintage Cersei. She actually became extremely dull season 7. She became a trope rather than an actual intelligible being.
Cersei got rid of literally all her enemies in the capital, by Season 7. It was more about winning The Great War at that point, which she did efficiently with the moves she made to get ahold of the Golden Company
1

goldfinger0303
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:17 pm
Karma: 181

Re: Game of Thrones

#32 Post by goldfinger0303 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:14 am

The fact that you used the words "Cersei" "winning" and "efficiently" means that it's a bad plot lol.

The whole storyline for Cersei in the books is that she thinks she's the smartest person in the room and in reality she's far from it. Every move she makes in other seasons backfires and has a real tangible consequence. Seasons 1-6 were extremely faithful to that logic. Season 7-8 Cersei has lost all of that. Or maybe we just haven't seen the full payoff of it. And no, Jon and Dany coming down with fire and blood doesn't qualify as payoff.

FlaviusAetius
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:15 am
Karma: 103

Re: Game of Thrones

#33 Post by FlaviusAetius » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:55 am

goldfinger0303 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:14 am
The fact that you used the words "Cersei" "winning" and "efficiently" means that it's a bad plot lol.

The whole storyline for Cersei in the books is that she thinks she's the smartest person in the room and in reality she's far from it. Every move she makes in other seasons backfires and has a real tangible consequence. Seasons 1-6 were extremely faithful to that logic. Season 7-8 Cersei has lost all of that. Or maybe we just haven't seen the full payoff of it. And no, Jon and Dany coming down with fire and blood doesn't qualify as payoff.
She lost the entirety of her loyal well-trained army for a mercenary company...it didn't backfire...? Yes. yes, it did.

TrPrado
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 1135
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:22 pm
Location: OOOOOOKLAHOMA WHERE THE WIND COMES SWEEPING DOWN THE PLAIN
Karma: 409
Contact:

Re: Game of Thrones

#34 Post by TrPrado » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:16 am

I would argue that somebody having a schtick of not being smart in their planning isn’t the best writing. She’s been punished so many times for bad decisions that at some point she has to learn from them as a human being. Her not being a static character isn’t bad plot.

FlaviusAetius
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:15 am
Karma: 103

Re: Game of Thrones

#35 Post by FlaviusAetius » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:50 am

TrPrado wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:16 am
I would argue that somebody having a schtick of not being smart in their planning isn’t the best writing. She’s been punished so many times for bad decisions that at some point she has to learn from them as a human being. Her not being a static character isn’t bad plot.
and she has gotten smarter, especially since she has no one to compete with in Kings Landing, this is more up her alley I think
1

goldfinger0303
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:17 pm
Karma: 181

Re: Game of Thrones

#36 Post by goldfinger0303 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:05 am

I was not under the impression that was the full Lannister army. There still seemed to be plenty manning the walls of Kings Landing when Dany shows up. I think even in the loot train episode they mention that over half the army has made it back to the city. "All the gold is safely through the gates of Kings Landing." So what is destroyed is merely the rearguard.

Cersei doesn't learn though. If she learned, she'd have changed once Tommen died. Instead she doubled down and lost Jaime instead. There has to be a consequence for decapitating the heads of half the major houses in Westeros and leaving the heads of the other half to die to a White Walker invasion. So far, I haven't seen one and doubt that we will. The show's stopped caring about having consequences to actions.

FlaviusAetius
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:15 am
Karma: 103

Re: Game of Thrones

#37 Post by FlaviusAetius » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:22 am

goldfinger0303 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:05 am
I was not under the impression that was the full Lannister army. There still seemed to be plenty manning the walls of Kings Landing when Dany shows up. I think even in the loot train episode they mention that over half the army has made it back to the city. "All the gold is safely through the gates of Kings Landing." So what is destroyed is merely the rearguard.

Cersei doesn't learn though. If she learned, she'd have changed once Tommen died. Instead she doubled down and lost Jaime instead. There has to be a consequence for decapitating the heads of half the major houses in Westeros and leaving the heads of the other half to die to a White Walker invasion. So far, I haven't seen one and doubt that we will. The show's stopped caring about having consequences to actions.
Sending her army to the North would have been the biggest mistake in her whole career. There were repercussions for killing half the major houses in Westeros, she had to fight a war, against them all, every last house. Except for half the ironborne.

What you don't get is that gold wins wars, no? She understood that lesson, and yea she isn't good at politics, not one bit, that's WHY she lost Jaime. That's WHY the entirety of Westeros turned against her. What IS she good at? War. Don't you remember, she LISTENED to the lessons Tywin gave her and jamie, that was about WAR. Not politics.

I agree consequences have become distant, there's still consequences, they just aren't that big of a deal anymores. I don't think this applies to what Cersei has done though.

brainbomb
Posts: 8167
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:20 pm
Location: Fylan 1
Karma: 1115
Contact:

Re: Game of Thrones

#38 Post by brainbomb » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:23 am

Prediction

Arya dies next episode by Jaquen. But the death inadvertantly looks like it was an assassination paid for by Cersei. This ends up being why Sansa joins Dany and agrees to support her in her revenge claim.

as a result the Vale and the Riverlands join Dany.

Sam is sent home as Lord of House Tarly and gets tasked with raising an army from the reach and Dorne.

Arya dies after seeing Hot pie one last time.

brainbomb
Posts: 8167
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:20 pm
Location: Fylan 1
Karma: 1115
Contact:

Re: Game of Thrones

#39 Post by brainbomb » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:25 am

Gendry dies in a battle at trident?


okay my imaginations gone off

brainbomb
Posts: 8167
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:20 pm
Location: Fylan 1
Karma: 1115
Contact:

Re: Game of Thrones

#40 Post by brainbomb » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:26 am

Wait no

Gendry gets pregnant with Aryas baby
1

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests