Mafia 41 - Sid Meiers Civilizaton Mafia - Official Game Thread

[bozotheclown]

I really want to understand the logic of town players to vote for someone who claimed doctor in this setup right now. His claim, which was a little under the radar originally, was near when he would die to the lynch that ultimately swung to ghug.

Just to note: bozo and damo are the only two left who voted for Fox on D1 that we still don't know their alignment, the other 4 have been confirmed town via death. The likelihood that it was an all-town push for Fox seems slim.

Again: Sure, Fox could be scum, but as we approach possible-MYLO after N3, does it make sense to really go for Fox when there are definitely OTHER PEOPLE who are scum? If you are town on Fox right now, you seriously need to be absolutely confident he is scum.

Doctor is not guaranteed to be a town role, why should claiming doctor keep us from lynching Foxcastle if we suspect he is scum?

[Jamiet99uk]

I agree with Bozo there. Unfortunately in this setup, even if he really is Doctor, that's totally NAI

[bozotheclown]

Voters to move off Bozo day 1 were:

Foxcastle
Worcej
Vecna (town).

So if Bozo was saved maybe the scumteam is Bozo/Foxc/Worcej+ a.n.o. (LQ would be my fav).

Now neither Bozo and worcej have a vote and LQ not gaining traction so

##vote Foxcastle. Apols if u r town doc.

Do you think Foxcastle was bussing me then moved his vote to try to save me by getting himself lynched?

I see what you mean. When he moved from you to Squigs he put himself 2 in the lead. But if you were bussing each other perhaps you both decided that Fox was the better sacrifice and the late surge on ghug gave him an opportunity to self save. Mind you he could have self saved as town.

BUT why would townFox move from Bozo to Squigs thereby putting himself 2 in the lead?

This vote and reasoning makes me concerned I am on the wrong wagon.

[damo666]

I really want to understand the logic of town players to vote for someone who claimed doctor in this setup right now. His claim, which was a little under the radar originally, was near when he would die to the lynch that ultimately swung to ghug.

Just to note: bozo and damo are the only two left who voted for Fox on D1 that we still don't know their alignment, the other 4 have been confirmed town via death. The likelihood that it was an all-town push for Fox seems slim.

Again: Sure, Fox could be scum, but as we approach possible-MYLO after N3, does it make sense to really go for Fox when there are definitely OTHER PEOPLE who are scum? If you are town on Fox right now, you seriously need to be absolutely confident he is scum.

I cannot be 'absolutely confident'. Cannot be absolutely confident on anyone. However I see your point that voting Fox has the inherent danger of lynching town doc which would be disastrous. So, you have me worried.

Parking ##vote Jamie for now. Gonna read the case on darg (unless someone can quickly summarise please).

[Foxcastle]

BUT why would townFox move from Bozo to Squigs thereby putting himself 2 in the lead?

I have explained this. If you want to be able to vote to save yourself later on, you cannot already be sitting on the counterwagon, because then your vote is just stuck. I had to get off what appeared to be the likely counterwagon. So I moved my vote to Squigs so I could see how the rest of EOD went and have maximum flexibility to vote when and where it was most likely to save me.

When you told us you were Askia, why didn't you tell us we should not be lynching the town doctor?

I was stressed out and that's just what came out instead of "doctor". It wasn't a conscious choice.

This is what I think my brain did, but this is also well after the fact, so it's not like this is particularly useful or telling: as I was looking through the roles, many of them can't be labeled with one concise action, so it was easier to just think of them as the civ name. And I wasn't really thinking of my role as capital-D Doctor because it is limited use. But again, this is post hoc navel gazing, and the way I claimed wasn't a conscious decision.

[damo666]

I really want to understand the logic of town players to vote for someone who claimed doctor in this setup right now. His claim, which was a little under the radar originally, was near when he would die to the lynch that ultimately swung to ghug.

Just to note: bozo and damo are the only two left who voted for Fox on D1 that we still don't know their alignment, the other 4 have been confirmed town via death. The likelihood that it was an all-town push for Fox seems slim.

Again: Sure, Fox could be scum, but as we approach possible-MYLO after N3, does it make sense to really go for Fox when there are definitely OTHER PEOPLE who are scum? If you are town on Fox right now, you seriously need to be absolutely confident he is scum.

Doctor is not guaranteed to be a town role, why should claiming doctor keep us from lynching Foxcastle if we suspect he is scum?

Surely we should consider the possibility he is town doc rather than lynch without debate.

[bozotheclown]

I really want to understand the logic of town players to vote for someone who claimed doctor in this setup right now. His claim, which was a little under the radar originally, was near when he would die to the lynch that ultimately swung to ghug.

Just to note: bozo and damo are the only two left who voted for Fox on D1 that we still don't know their alignment, the other 4 have been confirmed town via death. The likelihood that it was an all-town push for Fox seems slim.

Again: Sure, Fox could be scum, but as we approach possible-MYLO after N3, does it make sense to really go for Fox when there are definitely OTHER PEOPLE who are scum? If you are town on Fox right now, you seriously need to be absolutely confident he is scum.

Squigs was voting for Foxcastle, so there would be a busser. The fact that Squigs switched to ghug at the last minute make me suspect he was protecting Foxcastle, especially since Foxcastle was voting for Squigs. If Foxcastle vs. ghug was town vs. town, why would Squigs make a last minute vote to end on a wagon that was about to flip town? It does not seem likely Squigs was trying to falsely implicate Foxcastle since Squigs was not caught yet.

[Nephthys]

I am not the Mayan.

I never said you were, I said you were in a position to fake claim it

Well, now I have deliberately removed that possibility.

What do you make of that?

That you could still be scum with four other possible roles to claim...

[bozotheclown]

I really want to understand the logic of town players to vote for someone who claimed doctor in this setup right now. His claim, which was a little under the radar originally, was near when he would die to the lynch that ultimately swung to ghug.

Just to note: bozo and damo are the only two left who voted for Fox on D1 that we still don't know their alignment, the other 4 have been confirmed town via death. The likelihood that it was an all-town push for Fox seems slim.

Again: Sure, Fox could be scum, but as we approach possible-MYLO after N3, does it make sense to really go for Fox when there are definitely OTHER PEOPLE who are scum? If you are town on Fox right now, you seriously need to be absolutely confident he is scum.

Doctor is not guaranteed to be a town role, why should claiming doctor keep us from lynching Foxcastle if we suspect he is scum?

Surely we should consider the possibility he is town doc rather than lynch without debate.

I have considered whether he is town or scum, but if he is scum his doctor claim could be fake and he could have a role useful to scum.

[bozotheclown]

I have explained this. If you want to be able to vote to save yourself later on, you cannot already be sitting on the counterwagon, because then your vote is just stuck. I had to get off what appeared to be the likely counterwagon. So I moved my vote to Squigs so I could see how the rest of EOD went and have maximum flexibility to vote when and where it was most likely to save me.

When you told us you were Askia, why didn't you tell us we should not be lynching the town doctor?

I was stressed out and that's just what came out instead of "doctor". It wasn't a conscious choice.

This is what I think my brain did, but this is also well after the fact, so it's not like this is particularly useful or telling: as I was looking through the roles, many of them can't be labeled with one concise action, so it was easier to just think of them as the civ name. And I wasn't really thinking of my role as capital-D Doctor because it is limited use. But again, this is post hoc navel gazing, and the way I claimed wasn't a conscious decision.

This is how Askia is listed in the role document: "ASKIA - DOCTOR".

For future reference, my civ is Askia, in case that becomes relevant later.

Bozo and Squigs seem scummy to me, obviously. (Bozo more so, really...) Vecna's wrong here, but seems townie. Jamiet is town. Too early to tell about most others, unfortunately.

Why did you say your claim was for future reference, instead of saying you should not be lynched because you had a role useful to town?

[damo666]

Doctor is not guaranteed to be a town role, why should claiming doctor keep us from lynching Foxcastle if we suspect he is scum?

Surely we should consider the possibility he is town doc rather than lynch without debate.

I have considered whether he is town or scum, but if he is scum his doctor claim could be fake and he could have a role useful to scum.

So he could be town doc or scum doc or scum other knowing doc not in play. So, on the face of it chance of town doc 1/3 (over simplistic I know but whatever). Is lynching a risk worth taking?

[Foxcastle]

Why did you say your claim was for future reference, instead of saying you should not be lynched because you had a role useful to town?

Does no one read here? I've answered this at least twice.

I was under stress, and the last game I played was Durga's no-reveal game where roles were unknown, and I thought it was important. Obviously, if I hadn't been on the block with minutes to go, I would have thought it through, realized that this is a new game where roles are revealed on flip.

[worcej]

I really want to understand the logic of town players to vote for someone who claimed doctor in this setup right now. His claim, which was a little under the radar originally, was near when he would die to the lynch that ultimately swung to ghug.

Just to note: bozo and damo are the only two left who voted for Fox on D1 that we still don't know their alignment, the other 4 have been confirmed town via death. The likelihood that it was an all-town push for Fox seems slim.

Again: Sure, Fox could be scum, but as we approach possible-MYLO after N3, does it make sense to really go for Fox when there are definitely OTHER PEOPLE who are scum? If you are town on Fox right now, you seriously need to be absolutely confident he is scum.

Squigs was voting for Foxcastle, so there would be a busser. The fact that Squigs switched to ghug at the last minute make me suspect he was protecting Foxcastle, especially since Foxcastle was voting for Squigs. If Foxcastle vs. ghug was town vs. town, why would Squigs make a last minute vote to end on a wagon that was about to flip town? It does not seem likely Squigs was trying to falsely implicate Foxcastle since Squigs was not caught yet.

While I hear you, I think it's important to note that Squigs is good in regards to leading people. He thinks he is a shit scum because he is typically obviously scum, but he is very good at deducing and that with his leading skill has me more under the impression it is a shitty bread crumb to nothingness.

[damo666]

What is the case on Darg other than the mass claim thing?

[damo666]

There should be more urgency in identifying scum. 100 minutes to EOD. Where is everyone.

[bozotheclown]

Why did you say your claim was for future reference, instead of saying you should not be lynched because you had a role useful to town?

Does no one read here? I've answered this at least twice.

I was under stress, and the last game I played was Durga's no-reveal game where roles were unknown, and I thought it was important. Obviously, if I hadn't been on the block with minutes to go, I would have thought it through, realized that this is a new game where roles are revealed on flip.

I saw your previous answers, but what I meant was why didn't you say we should not lynch you because of your role? Why for future reference as opposed immediate consideration for the lynch?

[bozotheclown]

I really want to understand the logic of town players to vote for someone who claimed doctor in this setup right now. His claim, which was a little under the radar originally, was near when he would die to the lynch that ultimately swung to ghug.

Just to note: bozo and damo are the only two left who voted for Fox on D1 that we still don't know their alignment, the other 4 have been confirmed town via death. The likelihood that it was an all-town push for Fox seems slim.

Again: Sure, Fox could be scum, but as we approach possible-MYLO after N3, does it make sense to really go for Fox when there are definitely OTHER PEOPLE who are scum? If you are town on Fox right now, you seriously need to be absolutely confident he is scum.

Squigs was voting for Foxcastle, so there would be a busser. The fact that Squigs switched to ghug at the last minute make me suspect he was protecting Foxcastle, especially since Foxcastle was voting for Squigs. If Foxcastle vs. ghug was town vs. town, why would Squigs make a last minute vote to end on a wagon that was about to flip town? It does not seem likely Squigs was trying to falsely implicate Foxcastle since Squigs was not caught yet.

While I hear you, I think it's important to note that Squigs is good in regards to leading people. He thinks he is a shit scum because he is typically obviously scum, but he is very good at deducing and that with his leading skill has me more under the impression it is a shitty bread crumb to nothingness.

Maybe, but it seems like a risk making himself look worse to try to implicate Foxcastle, since Foxcastle was already under pressure and Squigs made it through D1 without a lot of attention.

[worcej]

What is the case on Darg other than the mass claim thing?

That is my damning evidence other than some more of his looking like he is around without actually lurking.

It isn't perfect to his script he once gave me, but it is fairly close.

[Durga]

i dont have time. is our only confirmed town RHK?

[bozotheclown]

Surely we should consider the possibility he is town doc rather than lynch without debate.

I have considered whether he is town or scum, but if he is scum his doctor claim could be fake and he could have a role useful to scum.

So he could be town doc or scum doc or scum other knowing doc not in play. So, on the face of it chance of town doc 1/3 (over simplistic I know but whatever). Is lynching a risk worth taking?

I like this argument better. If given a choice between two equally likely scum suspects, I would leave the possible town doctor alive, but I am not sure there is a scum candidate as likely as Foxcastle.