Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

[Vom Kriege]

I came across the following statement on a forum which inspired this topic:

“Call it a weakness, but I don't stab my first, best ally, and even the associates get a fair warning. Maybe silly, but I sleep at night and look in the mirror without wincing. People who pass off stabbing by saying, "It's only a game," make me wonder why they stab at all. If it is only a game, then it isn't worth being a jerk about.”

My interpretation of the objective of Diplomacy is to be the sole controller of the map (i.e. a majority of supply centers). Though a draw is a recognized secondary objective, it is not considered a win.

Deceit, lies, betrayal and stabs are recognized features of Diplomacy. That said, are there lines that you won’t cross so you can “look in the mirror without wincing”, that would otherwise advance your game in the pursuit of victory (i.e. a solo) or the secondary objective (i.e. a draw)? What do you think should be proper Diplomacy etiquette relating to deceit, lies, betrayal and stabs? Or, is it ‘absolutely anything goes in the pursuit of the game objectives’?

I look forward to hearing players’ perspectives on this topic.

[Jamiet99uk]

Absolutely anything goes.

[VillageIdiot]

This is a game for sociopaths with charisma and grace.

[Andyyy]

I totally agree. A bunch of weaker players had a coalition of spite against me in a now completed game, despite trusting the most ridiculous proposals from me. I believe that's their fault, not mine.

My favourite quote was "but you didn't outplay me, you just stabbed me".

My favourite action, by that same player which I shall not defame, was after I had just convoyed into Tus as France in F02, I convinced them it was to support Rom-Ven, after a crumbling Austria had taken it early.

Incredibly, they believed me and when Ven was left vacant by Austria in S03, I took Rom and then promptly Ven in fall.

And apparently this debacle wasn't their fault?

Hmm. Didn't realise I was that sociopathic and convincing a liar.

[brainbomb]

andy gets it

[mhsmith0]

The only stab to be ashamed of is an ineffective stab. If you stab someone and it fails to put yourself in much better position, or just enables someone else's solo (unless that was your explicit intention of course) then you should feel bad. For the rest? It's a game not a life commitment.

[Claesar]

Anything goes for the first solo attempt. I have very few mirrors in my house so it's never an issue.

After that, I wouldn't try for the solo again while others are cutting the draw. That's wherr I draw the line. I also frequently don't cut the draw myself, when I feel a player was instrumental in preventing the solo and therefore deserves to be a part. That's also a principal thing; if you cut when the stalemate is established, how can you scold players who fail to set up in the next game?

[Vom Kriege]

Oh, all of you sociopaths, who will do ANYTHING to advance your games... holding hands together and singing Kumbaya!

Sadly for me, there are a few mirrors in my house. Where a gain is immaterial I very typically side on taking the high road. I question the judgement of players who will stab somebody (an ally throughout the game) on the closing turns of a SoS, non-tournament game that is clearly going to be a draw, just to grab one (or two) extra supply centers for a few wedDip points. I get it if there is a solo opportunity... but in a drawn game?!? I'd be more likely to give an ally a supply center or two in a draw if our supply centers were materially imbalanced.

[willie23]

I don't enjoy stabbing people. My first(and only) solo came after a brilliant stab of Germany. Immediately afterward I looked in the mirror and cringed.

As a very good player of diplomacy once told me, I'll never be more than a middling player if I don't stab when the time is right. I'm fine with that.

I don't get upset however when a good stab is executed on my back. It's all part of the game. I usually know when a stab is coming though so it's never much of a problem.

[orathaic]

Not anything goes. Also, you agree by entering a game to play and be played. I have no difficulty looking myself in the mirror, play the best I can.

Now if that means chainsaw diplomacy, or playing someone's ego, so be it. More fool them, if that means the see a stab for the perfect timing it was aimed at, so be it... If that means getting stabbed at precisely the wrong moment, we'll thems the breaks... If this doesn't sound like fun to you, then you're on the wrong forums.

[Lord Bolton]

There is one rule of thumb I follow for stabs. Whoever I stab, under no circumstances do I let up until they are gone. Eliminates any nasty revenge scenarios later (obviously doesn't apply if I solo before they die). I may lie again and again as I continue to press the attack, but they are marked for death.

[Mercy]

As I see it, when entering a Diplomacy game, one signs an invisible contract stating that they now enter the realm of lies and deceit in which anything goes.

That being said, there are things that I, for ethical reasons, would not do in a game of Diplomacy, and these occur when the border between the game and outside the game begins to blur. For example (and this is a truly made up example), if one has quite personal talks with an ally and one starts to suspect that the ally in question is quite lonely IRL, one might be tempted to, let's say, claim that you live close to him/her and suggest to meetup after the game is over, all to make this person more likely to follow your suggestion if you suggest a 2-way draw, while in reality you plan to stab him for a solo and do not live close to him/her at all. But I would not do so.

In general I don't like when personal stuff mixes with a game like this, which is why I prefer to play anonymous games only.

There is one rule of thumb I follow for stabs. Whoever I stab, under no circumstances do I let up until they are gone. Eliminates any nasty revenge scenarios later (obviously doesn't apply if I solo before they die). I may lie again and again as I continue to press the attack, but they are marked for death.

So you are one of those people. I have met players like this on occasion and honestly, I find them very annoying and not strategically sound. After they stab me, I am always forced to spend time and energy to eliminate them while they could have been useful otherwise.

[Claesar]

Yup, I love to let people live. If they can convince me they'll be more useful alive than dead, game on.